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Well, playing a guy who spams cultists and Nurgle.

His list

40 Chaos Cultists Autoguns
40 Chaos Cultists Autoguns

Nurgle lord on bike balck mace

8 Nurgle bikers PF 2xMelta Guns

Obliterators (3 in squad)

Helldrake.

Was thinking of a couple of options

First, spamming devs

Librarian (Div) with JP 125
RAS 2 flamers 200
RAS 2 flamers 200
Devs 4 ML 130
Devs 4 ML 130
Devs 4 ML 130
ADL + Icarus 85

With remaining 10 points not sure what to do.

Basically hammer the bikers at distance with large numbers of shots, of course he will have jink saves, but what can you do?
Try and frag the Hellturkey on the turn it arrives (last game which he won through the damn scenario being from the battles book (rolled Necrons battle no.2 which allowed him to reserve his entire army....) the turkey failed every reserve roll which was amusing)

Oblits will always be a problem, but have to try for deluge of fire on them.

Another option is to ignore the helldrake for as long as possible

Lib + JP 125
RAS 2 MG + power maul 225
RAS 2 FG + power maul 200
Vindicator 145
Vindicator 145
Vindicator 145

Just some ideas, feel free to constructively criticize (Including Martel )
I'm also thinking of maybe an attack bike squadron instead of one of the vindicators.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another thought is 3 tooled up Baal Preds, they should make a mess of the cultists at least.

Even with 12 missile bearing devestators, parked at the back of the board behind an ADL, I doubt enough of them will survive one turn of Helldraking to shoot back and knock it down. If they had Intercept, it might be a different story, but they don't sadly so you're going to have to find a different solution and ignoring them when your only scoring units are literally marines with a cover save (which is what Heldrakes are best at killing) is not a solution.

My recommendation is to fight fire with fire. A Storm Raven with MM, either the LC or AC and three missiles (fire two plus one from PotMS) should scrap that Heldrake. I would take the AC because four shots that rend (so every glancing hit against AV12 is automatically a pen) is awesome and combined with Hurricane Bolters can mow down those 40 cultists once the Heldrake is gone. And if he wants to use a str 6 ap3 flamer against your marines, do the same to him and see how he likes it. You don't even need three Baal Predators. Just bring one or two and call it a day as long as they're all packing Flamestorm cannon and Heavy Bolters. They should make those bikers with their T5, 3+ armor and jink (which is cover save) cry.

If you need more high str shooting to take down the oblits and bikes, try changing your troops over to 5 man squads in Razorbacks, hook em up with the Lascannon and Plasma gun and reserve them at the beginning of the game and then jet 12" onto the board and shoot em up good.

Or if you have the points, put them in Land Raiders and then you can start on the board and shoot em up good with LC/HB or the assault cannon and some short ranged firepower.

Corbulo can be VERY effective at rending a helldrake null. 2+ FnP vs Str 6? baleflamer = hahaah.

the 80 cultists will be problematic. Though if they are not fearless they are less so.

I would suggest one vidicator maybe 2 but 3 seems overkill.

an ADL is probably your best hope for killing that damn turkey unless your taking flyers of your own

True, about the hellturkey, in the first list that is why I took the Aegis DL with the Icarus lascannon, it is much more likely to pen then explode the Helldrake, combined with the 12 missiles it can put the hurt on the oblits and bikers too.

The RAS plan is to get into H2H with the Culrists once the missile boys have whittled them down a bit.

Thanks for the comments guys.

I do want to use a SR, a few games ago I had one kill the hellturkey with one shot, the other chased it around the sky while it popped one Chaos LR and immobilized the other.

Your opponents list is screaming at you to take flamestorm baal preds!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And sniper scouts who are excellent for their points against both nurgle bikers and oblits...

Don't take BA devs. They are horrible. If you must list tailor, I'd start with a Stormraven and work from there.

If I were to tailor against this list I would just ignore the drake and go for a list like this:

Libby with fear of darkness (in pod)
Say goodbye to a cultist squad a turn without even firing a shot

5 man assault squad with flamer and 2 hand flamers on sarge (in pod)
These can drop with the libby and take a huge chunk out of a cultist squad

10 scouts with snipers (combat squaded)

10 scouts with snipers (combat squaded)
These 4 units will quite nicely chip away at the biker or oblit squads and being combat squaded with infiltrate means they can be placed far enough away from each other so that the chaos lord and bikers need to cover vast distances to get multiple squads. If the vindi is down they target the oblits first and foremost. Will pin cultists with ease too.

3 baal preds with flamestorms
At first their prime target is the bikers. The bikes cannot split their fire enough to take down all 3, the vindi and the scouts before they get minced (the baals will be wounding even nurgle bikers on a 4+) . Once the bikes are down (and with the oblits down), they should be extremely safe flaming all those cultists.

Vindi
This guy goes for the oblits. If they go down it can threaten both the bikers and the cultists sufficiently enough to justify its points.

995pts

By investing in anti drake firepower you are making youself weak against the rest of his army unless you are taking Ravens.

What else does BA have against Drakes other than Ravens? Don't say quad guns, because those don't kill Drakes.

Not much besides those sentry turrets and contemptors. I like the above list but the drake can eat all those scouts without and that back at it.

Martel732 wrote:
What else does BA have against Drakes other than Ravens? Don't say quad guns, because those don't kill Drakes.

Errrr... hmmmm... well now... allies? Lol that is about it!

Yeah dude, if you want to play only BA (which is kind of your only option at 1000, besides switching armies) you may as well settle in and buy a Storm Raven. I have two. One set up with Lascannon exclusively for tank hunting and one with AC and Hurricane Bolters for versatility. I bring both at 1850.

 Silverthorne wrote:
Not much besides those sentry turrets and contemptors. I like the above list but the drake can eat all those scouts without and that back at it.

Tbf I doubt the heldrake will get the chance. If the opponent runs the cultists in squads of 20, then on the drop the libby will very likely make one squad run off whilst the flamers will have a good chance of making another squad run off. That's a high chance of half the cultists breaking in turn 1. If the libby is also given a force axe and the sword power he can now threaten the oblits if hes been dropped nearby. Therefore the opponent will have the hard choice of focusing the oblits firepower on the assault marines and libby to save themselves thus leaving all the tanks unscythed and in a prime position to utterly wipe the bikers OR he focuses on the tanks, maybe takes down one with the oblits, then is assaulted by a st10 ap2 IDing libby. Even if the oblits kill him with their fists, he will likely take 2 down with him.
Meanwhile the baals are near each other so if the bike squad gets in melta range they expose themselves to the other two flamestorm shots. The scouts help take down the oblits or bikes depending on which unit needs support and once the bikes are gone can focus on the lord. The vindi is there in case either the oblits or bikes are being horrendously lucky with their dice rolls. Shouldn't take too long with 3 flamestorms, a demolisher cannon, 20 sniper shots and a sanguine sword libby to take out the bikes and oblits. Once they are done everything should steamroll the remaining cultists. The biggest worry would be relying on the sniper shots to take out the lord.

Poly Ranger wrote:
If I were to tailor against this list I would just ignore the drake and go for a list like this:

Libby with fear of darkness (in pod)
Say goodbye to a cultist squad a turn without even firing a shot

5 man assault squad with flamer and 2 hand flamers on sarge (in pod)
These can drop with the libby and take a huge chunk out of a cultist squad

10 scouts with snipers (combat squaded)

10 scouts with snipers (combat squaded)
These 4 units will quite nicely chip away at the biker or oblit squads and being combat squaded with infiltrate means they can be placed far enough away from each other so that the chaos lord and bikers need to cover vast distances to get multiple squads. If the vindi is down they target the oblits first and foremost. Will pin cultists with ease too.

3 baal preds with flamestorms
At first their prime target is the bikers. The bikes cannot split their fire enough to take down all 3, the vindi and the scouts before they get minced (the baals will be wounding even nurgle bikers on a 4+) . Once the bikes are down (and with the oblits down), they should be extremely safe flaming all those cultists.

Vindi
This guy goes for the oblits. If they go down it can threaten both the bikers and the cultists sufficiently enough to justify its points.

995pts

By investing in anti drake firepower you are making youself weak against the rest of his army unless you are taking Ravens.

Aaalrighty. First of all, this doesn't counter the Heldrake in any way. You need a Raven.
Then you need Corbulo with the podding ASM. And 20 sniper Scouts is pretty ridiculous. 5 is enough if you ask me.

Thanks all, good stuff in your posts.

I have 3 Baal preds, so I will give that list consideration.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Martel is right, the Quad Gun has problems pen V most flyers, though the Icarus can do nasty nasty things to a Drake.

Remember the Aegis DL gets a quad for 50 or an Icarus for 35.....

 soomemafia wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
If I were to tailor against this list I would just ignore the drake and go for a list like this:

Libby with fear of darkness (in pod)
Say goodbye to a cultist squad a turn without even firing a shot

5 man assault squad with flamer and 2 hand flamers on sarge (in pod)
These can drop with the libby and take a huge chunk out of a cultist squad

10 scouts with snipers (combat squaded)

10 scouts with snipers (combat squaded)
These 4 units will quite nicely chip away at the biker or oblit squads and being combat squaded with infiltrate means they can be placed far enough away from each other so that the chaos lord and bikers need to cover vast distances to get multiple squads. If the vindi is down they target the oblits first and foremost. Will pin cultists with ease too.

3 baal preds with flamestorms
At first their prime target is the bikers. The bikes cannot split their fire enough to take down all 3, the vindi and the scouts before they get minced (the baals will be wounding even nurgle bikers on a 4+) . Once the bikes are down (and with the oblits down), they should be extremely safe flaming all those cultists.

Vindi
This guy goes for the oblits. If they go down it can threaten both the bikers and the cultists sufficiently enough to justify its points.

995pts

By investing in anti drake firepower you are making youself weak against the rest of his army unless you are taking Ravens.

Aaalrighty. First of all, this doesn't counter the Heldrake in any way. You need a Raven.
Then you need Corbulo with the podding ASM. And 20 sniper Scouts is pretty ridiculous. 5 is enough if you ask me.

Read how I explained how the list would work. I explicitly said that you could just ignore the heldrake with this list. Nurgle bikers and oblits are some of THE best targets for sniper scouts in the game. 5 sniper scouts will do nothing. 20 will reduce numbers quickly. You do not need corbulo with the podding marines at all. If the opponent focuses on the marines they die - no big deal after making a unit (or 2) run away and distracting the oblits firepower for a turn, all for a measly 120pts inc pod. If the oblits fire at the asms the baals get three baal templates over the nurgle bikers and the vindi gets at least 1 shot off at the oblits. His target priority will be a lose-lose situation for him...

You do NOT need a raven against his list as you can ignore his single drake and table him exceptionally easily with what I have suggested. If you take a raven you will weaken your ground force. I suppose losing 5 snipers and the vindi wouldn't be too bad, giving you a raven and 15pts for somewhere. But it is not NEEDED.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: 125pts inc pod.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Your opponents list is screaming at you to take flamestorm baal preds!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And sniper scouts who are excellent for their points against both nurgle bikers and oblits...

Couldn't agree more. Those preds would take out bikers and cultists. A couple razorbacks with autocannons wouldn't go wrong either for Other stuff. The turkey you can ignore if you have mech right?

Pretty much. Although you can also ignore a single one if focusing on his other stuff and not playing with a mech list. Guessing you meant assault cannons :-p?

Poly Ranger wrote:

Read how I explained how the list would work. I explicitly said that you could just ignore the heldrake with this list. Nurgle bikers and oblits are some of THE best targets for sniper scouts in the game. 5 sniper scouts will do nothing. 20 will reduce numbers quickly. You do not need corbulo with the podding marines at all. If the opponent focuses on the marines they die - no big deal after making a unit (or 2) run away and distracting the oblits firepower for a turn, all for a measly 120pts inc pod. If the oblits fire at the asms the baals get three baal templates over the nurgle bikers and the vindi gets at least 1 shot off at the oblits. His target priority will be a lose-lose situation for him...

You do NOT need a raven against his list as you can ignore his single drake and table him exceptionally easily with what I have suggested. If you take a raven you will weaken your ground force. I suppose losing 5 snipers and the vindi wouldn't be too bad, giving you a raven and 15pts for somewhere. But it is not NEEDED.

Yes, I read it. I just wasn't completely satisfied with it.
There's no such thing as "ignoring Heldrake" because for gods sake it ain't going to ignore you.

And five Scouts is the number I've been running because they're not that cost-efficent. They keep my home objective and snipe some PF's out of squads. That's it.
With 20 Scouts you might take a few of the enemy (half of the bikers, if you're lucky) down before he charges you and kills you. And that is assuming that there isn't any los-blocking terrain.
Ten is a max amount I'd use but whatever floats your boat I guess. You still need counter-attacking power in case those bikers get uncomftorably close.

But okay, you don't need Corbulo. You just should have him. With him your ASM might actually do something other than take out 10 Cultists.

Cultists hate Fragnought, mine cause 15 wounds easy and they ran of the board, First Blood whoa

Yes sniper scouts are usually inefficient I agree. But not against nurgle bikers and oblits. And the bikers are not going to make it into combat due to 3 flamestorm cannons. And IF they do then they only make it into combat with 5 scouts.
The pod squad is sinply there to deliver the libby. The squad and libby can easily rout 2 squads of 20 cultists in turn 1. Thats half the cultists gone straight off. If they don't shoot the ASM squad then the libby will gut the oblits. If they do shoot the squad then the mech isnt being focused on and then the bikes and oblits get smashed the next turn. It is lose lose for the opponent.
And you CAN ignore the heldrake with the list I proposed as you will be able to annihilate the opponents boots on the ground quickly before the heldrake can make a difference. That is the point of the list!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It is a list specifically tailored to that list. I wouldnt usually take 20 sniper scouts - but they would be brilliant against that list. I wouldnt usually take flamestorm only baals - but they would be awsome against that list. I would usually take assault marines -but they would suck against that list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've thought about putting it another way: with such a list there are multiple big threats to each of the opponents units:

Nurgle bikers:
Plan A: 3 flamestorm baals
Plan B: Vindicator
Plan C: 20 snipers

Oblits:
Plan A: Vindicator
Plan B: Sanguine sword force axe libby
Plan C: 20 snipers

Cultists:
Plan A: Fear of Darkness libby
Plan B: Flamestorm Baals
Plan C: Flamer assault marines
Plan D: 20 sniper scouts

By ignoring the Heldrake, each of the choas units have at least 3 serious threats confronting them. If one fails others can take the slack. It is very hard to have this many counters for each unit in just 1000pts.
Now every unit in the BA force barring the ASM can threaten multiple units.
A fragioso whilst being the best unit in the BA dex IMO is not the best unit against this list, as it can only seriously threaten the cultists and not any of the other units. All the units in the above list however have plenty of choices to go for that they can threaten.

I think a fragioso could threaten bikers, couldn't he?

Not as effectively as any of the others. Gets 2 st6 rending templates and a heavy flamer/melta gun shot on the drop... say 2 dead bikers tops as its weapons are not designed to kill t6 3+ models who have a 12" move... then it cant even get near them again.

T6? NM then.