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Per codex, a land speeder gunner can have a heavy bolter, heavy flamer, or a multi-melta. However, there's obviously a STC for a gunner AC: see the Darkshroud/Vengeance.

So, I propose 100 points for a dual AC land speeder

Seem fair?

A ripoff compared to scatter walkers. But the AC is not fairly priced anywhere in the game; it's always overcosted. 24" range is a pretty big downside as it puts you within range of all kinds of nasty return fire.

How about they make it cheaper for the one you can bring on normal landspeeders to begin with? There's no reason one earth it should be more points to have one than a TML. None. 80 points for a HB/Assalt Cannon speeder is lucidrous.

 SRSFACE wrote:
How about they make it cheaper for the one you can bring on normal landspeeders to begin with? There's no reason one earth it should be more points to have one than a TML. None. 80 points for a HB/Assalt Cannon speeder is lucidrous.

Yeah 80pts for AV 10 HP 2 is a total joke. Welcome to 6th ed. The AC isn't even that good of a weapon for the Imperium because we can't mass it like Eldar do scatterlasers.

Not easily or cheaply, at least.

I have no problem with dropping the price of the Assault Cannon on a Land Speeder to twenty points and permitting it as a ten-point upgrade to the primary heavy bolter.

I'll tell you why its overcosted on speeders and not allowed to be taken twice.

Deepstrike


Speeders are pretty reliable to deepstrike since they are skimmers in a squadron.

As per skimmer rules, if a model is underneath the hull of a skimmer then it must be moved the shortest distance away. This mean if you deep strike and scatter onto an enemy unit, you can put your nose facing the unit, push it back as far as possible, and your skimmer base will not be within 1" so you do not mishap.

And, since its a skimmer, if you mishap onto impassible terrain that happens to be large enough for you to put your base on, you dont mishap either, since your just landing on top of it with your skimmerness.

6 assault cannons, deepstriking near anything is pretty much gonna kill it unless its toughness 8 with 6 wounds.




I do agree however, that since you cant take 2, it should only be a 15 point upgrade however.

I wouldn’t have a problem with 100 point duel AsC speeders. Wouldn’t have a problem with them at 90 points either. They can put out a lot of shots, but have to be in close to do so.

Assault cannons are nice, but overpriced. And speeders are probably the worst possible platform for them. If you want to use them, knock yourself out.

So deepstriking 6 ACs is some how OP, but Eldar running around with 6 SLs on move shoot run warwalkers that they can just fire from 36" and NOT HAVE TO DEEPSTRIKE is just hunky dory? Note that the warwalkers can start melting your face from turn 1 and you have to wait for your DS speeders to come in. People make my brain hurt.

Man martel you just keep comparing the ACs to scatterlazers. The only one talking about scatterlazer war walkers in this thread is you.

Stop bringing it up - it has no place in a discussion of Imperial Units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
100 point dual Ac speeders would not be undercosted, so I see no problem with allowing the unit.

 Dracos wrote:
Man martel you just keep comparing the ACs to scatterlazers. The only one talking about scatterlazer war walkers in this thread is you.

Stop bringing it up - it has no place in a discussion of Imperial Units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
100 point dual Ac speeders would not be undercosted, so I see no problem with allowing the unit.

Don't tell me what to talk about. I'm making a point about how this proposed unit isn't even that good compared to an actual good unit. I keep comparing them because for some reason GW shafts the Imperium on heavy weapons.

And bringing that up in every thread involving an AC helps how? The OP wants to make sure he is not building a unit that would be unfair to play against.

Its relative strength compared to a scatterlazer warwalker is only relevent if you are saying that is a reason that would make the proposed unit unfair.

News flash: If you take the (arguably) most cost efficient weapon in the game and compare it to anything else, anything else seems weak! Amazing how you figured that out.

It's especially poignant with the Imperium's sorry excuse for a S6 weapon.

Maybe I will help people stay away from a trap weapon by showing how crappy it is compared to the competition.

Which has no connection to this thread, except as a way to tell the OP not to take the unit because "scatter lasers".

Actually, I'm also pointing out how at 100 pts, his proposal is actually quite over costed.

Since this is a proposal thread, we could actually propose a price point appropriate for how mediocre the AC actually is.

So why didn't you do that instead of simply deriding the idea?

The AC is a sore subject for me? Hopefully, I've clarified my point. Compared to a scatterwalker, a twin AC speeder's price point is somewhere below 80 pts for sure.

Lets make a direct comparison then.

War walkers vs. Speeders.

1. Both units consists of armor 10, 2 hullpoint vehicles taken in squads of 3 that can equip 2 heavy weapons.

2. Both units can move and fire all their weaponry at full BS.

3. Both units have multiple different weapon selections that enable them to fill different roles in their army.


At this point the similarities end.

4. Speeders win out in mobility handily, having fast skimmer movement over walker movement and having deep strike over scout.

5. Walkers win out in durability slightly, having a 5+ invunerable over the speeders jink save. They also have more access to psychic buffs like fortune.

6. Walkers win out in weaponry in a TAC list, since dual scatter lazers are almost the best weapon in the game on a BS4 unit.

7. Speeders win out in weaponry if tailored againgst the opponent, as both multi-melta's and heavy flamers outpreform walker weaponry if used againgst appropriate targets.

8. Point cost the walkers win out. This comes at the price of taking up a heavy support slot instead of a Fast attack slot. In most armies the heavy support slot is far more valuable than fast attack.


Overall the 2 units are almost dead even in terms of power.

Giving speeders access to double assault cannons wouldnt make them OP, but i do believe they would have to be more expensive than walkers due to deep strike. Being able to deliver 24 str 6 rending ap4 shots from a BS4 unit ANYWHERE you want on the table is extremely powerful. 90pts apiece is probably the correct value for that.

To get to 90 we would need assault cannons to cost 20 pts apiece, or 25 for underslung and 15 for HB replacement.




Currently the underslungs are appropriatly priced, IF you could also take em up top. As things are now they are overpriced by 5 points at the least.