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So I know most IG players don't often use the rough riders, which is fair enough, kinda costly and moreso fluffy than effective from what I've seen...However, I thought about expanding upon them some more, to give the IG army a potentially new way to play the game which could be pretty sweet! So the plan was this:

-New Rule for Typical Rough Riders
-A new Unit(s) Variation/Doctrines
-Company/Platoon Command Squad Riders
-Hero Model?

The first step is my attempt to make the normal rough riders now, a much more severe threat to tanks/light vehicles/elites by giving them something similar to the scout rule, or say the vanguard rule from Warhammer Fantasy, since they'd be able to deploy much quicker and the IG don't have too many effective scouting units. Either that or somehow increase their movement, since it'd likely be just a dude on a horse with not too much armour on...

The second step was to give perhaps a brand new unit, say like a more knightly/armoured unit of riders or the doctrines similar to that current veteran squads. The unit idea is to have a much stronger, hard hitting squad that'd likely be the perfect flank charge or a good frontal charge to shake up the enemy. More armour (Carapace), but perhaps they sacrifice this for less speed? Somehow make it so if they are able to charge into combat first, they get some form of strong impact hits (This is moreso a very basic idea for YOU, yes ou, to help expand on) with all the extra weight they carry, which will hurt a lot more than just a simple guy on a bare horse. I'd also say the gun options on the horses are pretty sound, having say a melta gun on any of them to get up close and thick to the tanks. But the doctrine idea...It'd be say: Scouting Horses (Yes, it'd negate the previous step, who'd instead get extra movement instead or price drop), carapace horses and demolition horses. All nearly the same as the other doctrines, but they're still good doctrines anyhow.

The third one is as it goes. CS on horses. This would however mean Rough Riders should get some form of voxcaster/radio option now to make this much more effective so that orders go back and forth, and CS on horses would be easier to give out horses than on foot, definitely! Imagine the Krieg Command charging forth with the banner at the front, swords flying! It'd be cool to see! Of course they'd get the options most command squads do too.

Now...The Hero. Perhaps someone from the actual hun-based rough riders from the past, say like a general on horseback, done multiple campaigns and is your good ol' rugged badass...On a horse. Ideas for this Model: Makes Normal Rough Riders core troops, Gives a Unit he is in something like Hatred, to reroll misses and perhaps wounds too. Refractor field too. Maybe a boon given by his favoured horse, like a (half?)-mechanical one? His stats would often be more Wounds, a better WS and better Leadership also!

OH, or how he...Or just rough riders in general, can do how SM bikers can, hit and run rules!

Go nuts, discuss and share your own opinions! Horse-borne armies (Tanks too of course). Yes or Neigh? XD

How to fix rough riders in one easy step:

1) Copy/paste the DKoK death rider rules into the codex where the rough rider rules used to be.

/thread

Oh....I never checked out the death riders before XD WELL. I look like a right idiot now! But I guess out of interest to those that don't have access to the death riders...what would they appear like then as I've never seen the death riders before (Kinda new I guess?)/

Well, here is my suggestion:

Valhallan Maulers:

A unit of Rough Riders taken from a Valhallan Astra Militarum detachment may be upgraded to Valhallan Maulers for 24 pts/model (that bring the total cost to 35 pts/model). Change the Rough Rider's profile to the following:

Mauler WS3 BS3 S4 T4 W2 I3 A2 Ld7 Sv4+
Mauler Sergeant: WS3 BS3 S4 T4 W2 I3 A3 Ld8 Sv4+

Unit Type: Cavalry, The Mauler Sergeant is Cavalry (Character)

Wargear: Carapace Armour, Laspistol, Close combat weapon, Hunting lance, Frag grenades, Krak grenades.

Special Rules: Amphibious, Rage, Rampage

The best Rough Riders suggestions I've been able to come up with:

Fix the current setup. Change the lance from what it currently is to an S6/AP2 Hammer of Wrath hit per model, give the unit Hit and Run. Make them capable of crippling things before they can hit back on the way in and if they somehow live leave them with the power to pop out and do it again later.

Revise the concept of a Guard cavalry unit. Make them dragoons, give them two special weapons per five models and a 6" or 12" Assault phase move if they didn't run, let them make ride-by attacks.

Of course taking both of these and then appropriating Death Riders on top of that and we're starting to look at enough Rough Riders to start considering Command Squads and a platoon.

Interesting thoughts guys. RR have so much potential, they just need a tweak somewhere. The Maulers concept sounds hilarious in a good way. The scout move would be sensible.

Hit and Run seems entirely logical too.

ahh so many possibilities...

A lot of these suggestions seem to be nothing to do with Rough Riders and their special training, and more to do with how Cavalry operate (and how that should be more different to Beasts and Bikes).

If we changed the cavalry rules to give better Hammer of Wrath, or Hit & Run, which other units would it affect

Seekers, Lords on Steeds, does anyone else have cavalry?

One of the pitfalls with changing rough riders, is that are actually pretty decent in combat verse MEQ if you can get them there. If they get a small boost it will kind of be negated by the fact people will focus fire on them long before they have a chance to do anything. So i think most changes should be durability improvements. I think H&R is a mistake because their low initiative will mean it struggles to go off and without their lances they are mostly neutered. A big problem is regular weapons murder them so causing a second overwatch is not really worth a second neutered HOW and an additional attack that will still go after they get a chance to swing.

I think it should be Scout and then an extra wound. Scout because they are a fast light unit and the wound because they have a horse so it should increase survivability somewhat. Then a drop down to 10 points per model. That way a squad is 50 points. Has a move to get it into a cover position if its out in the open or to outflank for use with special weapons. This helps it have a better chance to survive to reach combat. The extra wound helps them take regular hits better. They will still get annihilated by anything with high strength.

Then you should add in the ability to mount a commissar or priest on a horse. And then take a RR PCS for 55 points.

PCS grants RR specific orders:

Give them an order for crusader unit start of next turn - To help them sweep a MEQ unit or keep a SM unit from escaping and rapid firing you to death.
Give them an order to move an extra 6 inches on a run - To help them get into position especially on an outflank move.
Give them an order to grant concussive the charge for on a unit - For combats that will last a while meaning you have a chance to survive after you lances break. Fluff would be impact hit from getting charged by a horse.

So far these ideas are utterly fantastic, and I can see the reasoning behind some of these ideas and how they'd function...Extra wounds, scout and lower costs. All very viable. What would you say about having veteran rough riders then? Similar to how veterans work with normal IG, just give them better WS perhaps, make the overall cost of 5 around 55-60 points and open up to more special weapon choices (2). Then you could expand on with certain doctrines...Only one I can think of is the heavier horse option with carapace armour, lose scout+more durability, especially if they got an extra wound!

While I wouldn't be opposed to more options. The only thing I would really be cautious about is shooting up their points with upgrades. In practice, 1+ WS on our guys isn't so great especially since the majority of our killing power should be at Int 5 anyway. We would still be rolling on a 4+, it would only come into play after they have already hit. I don't know if I would pay for that. Maybe an extra attack instead.

Carapace wouldn't be bad. Maybe a cyber horse upgrade as a different doctrine to give that FNP on 6+ or an extra T point. Maybe a camo cloak one as well. Really anything right now would be nice as long as it doesn't take away from death riders.

Let them come in two variants:

Mounted scouts:
wargear: Lasguns
Special rules: scout, move through cover
Any model may take sniper rifle for 2 points, 2 may take special weapons

Rough riders: No special weps but get Hit and Run and lances aren't one use only.

I would drop hunting lance and give them all chain-blades and las-pistols with an option to upgrade to powerswords.

maybe also allow no melee weapons but the come with shot guns and can all have melta guns.

Rough Riders - 15 pts each
Equipment:
Power Lance
Brute Shield

Stats:
WS 4

So basically just a fast moving crusader

I like a lot of these ideas, rough riders (like a few IG units) have so much fluff and game potential but are sadly underpowered.

The fatest and best fix is probably just to give them the scout rule, allowing outflank. Failing that, giving them T4 or jink would be good enough. They shouldn't be tough killing machines, but it'd be nice if they were at least slightly harder to kill than guardsmen.

Just my two cents... but I agree with most people's sentiment. Though, what I think needs to also occur is to ensure that the Rough Riders' options allow a variety of builds to help make them more viable across different armies. In other words, giving them more options. Personally, I'd keep the unit's current cost, stats and wargear; with the option to replace their Laspistol with a Lasgun for free.

I'd also change how Hunting lances worked so that they are single-use weapons that instead boost Hammer of wrath; either giving it a +2 Strength bonus or AP3.

In terms of options, I'd give Rough Riders the option to replace their Hunting lances with up to 2 special weapons; including Sniper rifles and perhaps a unique weapon (perhaps a single-use Missile launcher that the player can choose to fire as a Frag, Krak or Flak missile?).

Finally, I'd give them Veteran doctrines; specifically as follows:

1. Vanguard: Give them Scouts (and Outflank)
2. Nomads: Give them Relentless
3. Skirmisher: Give them Hit & run

Having the above rules and special weapon options, I feel, open the Rough Riders up to a variety of uses. Scouts/Outflank could be used to maneuver Rough Riders into position; either to snipe/shoot the enemy or to charge. Likewise, Relentless can be used to move sniper Riders into position to shoot (versus Ratlings who reposition after shooting) or to shoot and charge in the same turn. Lastly, Hit & run can be again be used by both shooty Riders and charging Riders - the former can disengage out of combat before getting pummeled during a second round and to shoot again, while the latter would disengage in order to turn around and charge again (once again gaining +1 attack and Hammer of wrath).