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Alright, despite the comical theme of the army, I want serious advice on how good/bad it is and what makes it better!

Total Points = 1494

HQ
Necron Lord: {{195}}
    Base (100), Res Orb (40), Destroyer Body (30), Warscythe (10), Thing-that-lets-you-get-back-up-with-more-wounds (15?)
Necron Lord: {{205}}
    Base (100), Res Orb (40), Destroyer Body (30), Warscythe (10), Thing-that-lets-you-get-back-up-with-more-wounds (15?), Gaze of Flame (15)

ELITES
Flayed Ones x 10 {{180}}
Flayed Ones x 10 {{180}}

TROOPS
Warriors x 10 {{180}}
Warriors x 10 {{180}}

FAST ATTACK
Wraiths x 3 {{123}}
Wraiths x 3 {{123}}
Wraiths x 3 {{123}}

Total Necrons: 51
Phase out: 12?

So the plan is that usually one Lord will fly up with the Wriaths and smash face with them, while the other with the gaze of flame meets up with the infiltrating Flayed Ones and has fun with them.  The warriors meanwhile do random annoying things and goof off because they're the only guys in the army with ranged weaponry.

I have not tested this army, but I have thought it over a lot.  Hard hitting necron units can be very effective when they keep getting back up, and that leadership 10 is quite nice too.  I also don't have to worry much about ranged weaponry wiping me out when almost everything is in combat turn 2-3.  The toughness 6 lords are especially nice, and the Gaze of Flame is there to combo with the Flayed Ones' terrifying visage.  I especially like the ability of Lords to get back up with multiple wounds while they are so decked out because that just makes them all the more sweeter.  I know that the two warscythes are the only weapons that ignore armor saves, but once in combat this army will win by attrition for the most part; the scythes are mainly for dealing with termies (and their cousins) and independant character rapage.

Also, half of the battle is about the look on your opponent's face ;-)

Also, half of the battle is about the look on your opponent's face ;-)

It'd be a quizzical look on my face, because I don't think this army will win against competent opponents.

Here's my Theoryhammer regarding this list. One major, major problem you'll have vs. any MEq army is that they'll still be rolling armor saves vs. all those Wraiths and Flayed Ones. You just don't have any "hard hitters." You're flat-out not going to kill much in h2h with this army, and that's kinda the point of fielding an assault army. And don't get too enamoured with the Lords' profile for h2h. No matter what you think, they're going to be underwhelming. Trust me.

Yeah, WBB is handy, but the big danger for Necrons in h2h is losing rounds of combat, and the Orbs don't help with that. Sooner or later, you'll fail Ld tests due to outnumbering modifiers, etc. and you'll lose whole units. That's bad because it puts you that much closer to phase-out. It's much harder to phase out a Necron army down with shooting, which is why most Necron players avoid h2h in the first place. Outnumbering is a very real risk for you, because you'll be hitting in waves, and not waves of large numbers like a horde army. Your first wave has all of 10 models and 12 wounds. They're just asking to get countercharged and swamped. Your Flayed Ones will arrive a turn or two later, but it might be too late by then. And meanwhile, your Warriors won't be able to draw LOS to anything lurking behind those combats, will be a few turns away from assaulting (not that they're any good at that anyway), and probably won't have much to do in general. You can't win with an assault army with one arm tied behind your back.

And forget about MEqs...have you considered how suicidal it would be to charge 31 models into a Tyranid or Ork horde? *shudder*

What would be make it better? Well, I think Scarabs are a much better unit than Wraiths. But that's within the context of a shooty list where the Scarabs are designed for counterassault duty. Plus if you move Scarabs in, you lose objective holders. Not that the Wraiths will be good for that, given that they'll be ground down pretty quick. Frankly, I have no idea how to field Necrons as an effective h2h list, mainly because the list just isn't designed that way.

Your second Lord is illegal I think, too much gear.

I think.

EDIT:  and no Res Orb for a CC Necron army?

I beg to differ on the units not being hard-hitting enough. Wraiths on the charge = 4 attacks per model at I6 and wounding on 2's (vs most).

Flayed Ones = 3 S4, I4 attacks per on the charge... So basically I've got marines then without a vet sarg with a power weapon/fist leading the squad, but my guys get right back up 50% of the time, have LD10, and have Terrifying Visage.

Outnumbering will *not* be much of a problem because each time two necrons drop, one gets back up on average. So if I'm losing combat, I'm losing at half the speed, and meanwhile the Lord gets to hack and slash.

Now about assaulting a horde army, that could be troublesome, but I'll still have fun and my necrons crushed under the feat of Carnifexes will still get right back up via res orbs.

The second lord is not illegal- remember, the 10 points for a warscythe is purchased as an upgrade for his Staff of Light, not from the armory.

And there are Res Orbs on both lords....?

If you going to make a Hth Necron army, you should at least use the deciever and lots of scarabs. C'tans and Scarabs are reallly the only good Hth Necrons have. Flayed ones are not that good. They alright in hth, but are slow and don't have access to power weapons. Most people will ignore visage and they will have to survive a round of shooting to get into hand to hand.

Necrons really, really, really are bad in hand to hand. Sure you are resilient, but you will not win in a fight. And sooner or later you will fail that leadership test and get run down. Remember you have to pass that horribly modified leadership BEFORE you get a chance to roll for WBB.

Wraiths are really bad for hand to hand unless you are fighting swarms or lightly armed troops. A 3+ save can take only so much and if they lose (which they will against most MEq opponents) they will be horrible outnumbered. And when they run, they won't get caught but they probably will never rally.

Necron lords should not fight in HtH. Against most Combat HQ choices they will get owned. Sure you are T6, but with 3+ Save and 3 lousy WS4 I4 attacks, they are pityful. The Warscythe is usually not worth in as you should be shooting with him anyway. The best weapon in the galaxy will not help you if you cannot hit with it.

But if you really want a Hth necron army, drop a lord, the flayed ones, and the wraiths and max out on scarabs (with d-field) and get a C'tan. Sprinkle warriors for numbers and enjoy. But you really will be playing into the Necron Army Weaknesses.

You know what, I forgot all about using the C'tan. Still in that mode of "special characters need your opponent's permission!"

What are peoples views on using Pariahs and Tomb Spyders?

How about this tactic?
-Run a Monolith, deepstrike it in the middle of the enemy, teleport in something to assault with, and charge :-P THEN on your next turn, teleport the unit right back out of combat, reroll your WBB rolls, then charge again! Yaaahhhh!

Posted By Mr. Bombadidaloo on 04/27/2006 10:45 PM
I beg to differ on the units not being hard-hitting enough. Wraiths on the charge = 4 attacks per model at I6 and wounding on 2's (vs most).

Flayed Ones = 3 S4, I4 attacks per on the charge... So basically I've got marines then without a vet sarg with a power weapon/fist leading the squad, but my guys get right back up 50% of the time, have LD10, and have Terrifying Visage.

And power armor will save two-thirds of every wound you can put on them. Terminators will save 5 out of every 6. Can't you see how this is going to go? Without power weapons or rending, their armor will absorb most of what you can throw at them. Moreover, I wouldn't count on your Flayed Ones getting the charge.

Outnumbering will *not* be much of a problem because each time two necrons drop, one gets back up on average. So if I'm losing combat, I'm losing at half the speed, and meanwhile the Lord gets to hack and slash.

I take it you're a beginning Necron player, because otherwise you'd know that WBB takes place at the beginning of your next turn. So outnumbering IS a problem. That's why the usual Necron strategy is to pull units out of close combat with the Veil or a Monolith before they get too bogged down, but obviously you can't do that.

Now about assaulting a horde army, that could be troublesome, but I'll still have fun and my necrons crushed under the feat of Carnifexes will still get right back up via res orbs.

Unless the whole unit gets run down first.

Look, I try to avoid being overly dismissive regarding army lists, because I think too much of that goes here. But you asked about it's effectiveness, and I think this army will lose. A lot.

Pariahs lack speed, WBB and enough attacks to make a difference in h2h. Last year, I posted an analysis of Pariahs in h2h vs. a variety of opponents of similar points cost. The results weren't pretty. Tomb Spyders are also slow and tend to be underwhelming in h2h. Their best use is for helping out with WBBs.

Adeptsister has it right that Scarabs and a C'tan would be better choices in some regards. However, they also come with liabilities, which just points back to the fact that you're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

Appreciate the constructive criticism :-)

I know the army will lose a lot, but I'm looking for it to be the best it can be while maintaining the combat theme.

So scarabs and C'tan it is. You can only field one C'tan per army right? Fielding both would be quite interesting...

Posted By Mr. Bombadidaloo on 04/28/2006 11:46 AM
You can only field one C'tan per army right? Fielding both would be quite interesting...

Yes, they're 0-1.  Because having two Gods in your army might be unbalanced.

Mr. Bombadidaloo

Sorry about the Res Orb thing, I must have been slightly blind when I looked over that!

I'm building a Necron force myself that is much more shooting oriented (Veil Lord on foot, 30 warriors, 10 Immortals, 8 Destroyers). However my experimental suicide tendencies were intrigued by the concept of a teleporting melee rush combining a deep striking Monolith with a veil Lord on foot and two units of Flayed Ones; Once the 'lith is in position port one unit in, while the Lord ports in with the other unit keeping everyone safe from early counter-assault, giving them Res Orb backup, and allowing you to re-roll casualties through the portal and re-assault next turn if you lose too many in the enemy's assault phase. Just random insane thoughts, though I probably wouldn't bother spending my money on Flayed Ones since I don't see myself using them much.

I think the biggest issue is the fact that your opponent only has to kill 12 models to get you to phase out, not that hard to do with just about any list and because Necrons are going to foot it across the board they will probably lose those 12 models pretty quick, all your opponent has to do is concentrate all fire on one warrior squad in first turn and probably knock them all down, then second turn they only have to kill 2 more models.

He actually has to lose 39 necrons before phasing out. Which is a pretty high number for a typical necron list.

Some things to consider:

While Flayed ones can deep strike, they are sitting ducks the round they come on to the field. So they are just fodder. Two units means twice the fodder.

Two blocks of warriors w/o a res orb nearby is just asking for trouble. Str 8 and up weapons are your bane, as are power weapons. By sending the lords away from your warriors, you're allowing your opponent to shoot at will at your blocks of warriors with heavy weapons and no chance to get back up. Which means closer to phase out faster.

Three Wraiths are good, 9 are too much. Realize that if you take 9 wraiths into an assault not all of them will get in because they have such large bases. Add the fact the Destroyer bodied lord has a large base and you're looking at a max of 5-6 wraiths going against a unit of 10 Marines (even less if going against 5 marines). Can 1 unit of 3 wraiths take down a unit of 5 marines, yes, I've done it. But it's 50-50 and the lord might make a difference, but it will also take 2 rounds to do it, which isn't very effective as far as hth goes. You want to slice and dice quickly and necron really just don't have that.

I recommend dropping 2 units of wraiths and a unit of flayed ones. Add 4-5 destroyers, and 2 warriors to each block of 10 (giving you 12). Keep one destroyer lord back with the warriors and destroyers. If you have any points left, buy one unit of scarabs with fields to take out tanks or small vehicles. Use the warriors and destroyers to concentrate firepower on blocks of enemy units, then send your wraiths in to clean things up.

Deep strike your flayed ones into the back of your opponents armor or into a weakened side of the enemies flank (one you've thoroughly shot up with 12-15 Str 6 shots from the destroyers).

As everyone has said (and this is coming from a fellow necron player), necron are not great in hth. So use their strength, lots of firepower, to soften up the enemy.

I wouldn't recommend the C'Tan until you reach 2000 points, too much of a point sink, and even then, take a Monolith first. Better firepower and movement flexibility.

Pariahs look nice on paper, play badly in the game. At 36pts a pop, they are a heavy investment which is easily lost with a pie plate or assault marines and power weapons. The lack of a WBB with Pariahs makes them useless, and it stinks that you can't 'port them through the monolith. They have great attributes, weapons, and anti-psyker potential, but if you're opponent has any heavy weapons, your pariahs will be gone by the end of round 1.

Whew! Thats alot. Hope it helps, and good luck

-Jmz