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2015/05/14 13:09:12
Subject: Modelling for Advantage - Comprehensive Breakdown
I'm currently devising a comprehensive rules set, and I'm running into a problem. So far I've been able to put together some pretty tight rules regarding what constitutes a model's body, weapon, and decorations:
Spoiler:
2.1.1. Models have certain physical attributes that determine how they interact with other figurines. Models have a body, wargear, and decorations. Some models have a base.
2.1.1.1. A model's body is any part of the model that is not wargear, decoration, or part of its base. If removing this piece would result in a different model (or lack thereof), it is safe to treat it as the model's body. If differently assembling this piece does not result in a different model, it is also safe to treat it as the model's body. (Example: The chest piece of a Space Marine Scout, a Grey Knight Land Raider's side sponson, or a Harlequin Troupe Master's leg.)
2.1.1.1.1. A vehicle's body is called its hull.
2.1.1.2. A model's wargear is any part of the model that represents a piece of equipment or a weapon used by the model. If replacing or differently assembling this piece of the model would result is a differently equipped model, but not a different model, then it is safe to treat it as wargear. (Example: A Chaos Daemon Prince’s Wings, or an Imperial Knight’s Reaper Chainsword.)
2.1.1.3. A model's decoration is any part of the model that could be removed or replaced, and would not result in a differently equipped model or a different model. (Example: A Chaos Space Marine Rhino’s spikey bits, or pieces of scripture/paper on an Astra Militarum Priest.)
2.1.1.4. A model's base is a round or square platform with a flat bottom that the model's body rests upon.
2.1.1.4.1. Models purchased from Games Workshop come with or without bases. If a model has come with multiple sizes of base, then any of those sizes may be used. (Example: Space Marine Dreadnaughts used to be sold without bases. They are now sold with bases. Players may customize older models to include a base, or may customize newer models to exclude a base).
Unfortunately, I'm running into a problem when it comes to modelling for advantage. I want to stick as close to RAW as possible, because these rules have to cover how players play with just the rulebook (these rules would strictly be reference for TO's and Judges - not generally meant for players to read through). Players frequently use conversions, and it's generally acceptable to jazz up a model's base or certain parts to make it look cool, so these rules can't just say "only assemble what's on the box as it's shown on the box". At the same time, there would need to be some sort of limitation written in RAW-speak that would prevent a player from converting a model that covers half the table, or which prevents them from using an Epic-scale model to play with Timmy the Tiny Space Marine.
Any suggestions?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/14 13:11:46
Galef wrote: If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
2015/05/14 14:16:40
Subject: Modelling for Advantage - Comprehensive Breakdown
How about just give each model a default size... as such...
Space Marine Tactical Marines come on 25mm bases and are 30mm tall (guessing) to the top of the head. Therefore, anything outside the 25mm wide, 30mm tall cylinder is ignored for line of sight purposes. So, a banner on a marines back would be decoration, as would a pair of bat wings added to a Jump Marine.
Termies might be 40mm wide, 34mm tall. Or whatever the actual number is.
Anything without a base (mostly vehicles) would be given the same treatment in terms of define which parts of the hull represent the width and then give an arbitrary height per model.
Base all these numbers off a standard assembly, following the rules.
I've seen games that worked like this. It adds a little time when disputes come up, but it's very cut and dried... you use fancy, tall bases? Fine, but it doesn't actually give your model better line of sight because the model is defined as being 32mm tall.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, this should be in the Proposed Rules sub forum.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/14 14:16:57
Check out my website. Editorials! Tutorials! Fun Times To Be Had! - kriswallminis.com
Yeah, I posted here because I was hoping to see if there was anything in the current rules. I want to stick as close to the actual RAW rules set as possible. The cylinders, while a great idea, isn't at all what's written in the rules. I'm hoping there's a way to define things that works both within those rules, and yet can also allow for conversions. My understanding is that the rules as written doesn't actually allow conversions, even though I think we all play it that way.
If that's the case, then perhaps the cylinder method is the only sure-thing.
Galef wrote: If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
2015/05/14 14:31:48
Subject: Modelling for Advantage - Comprehensive Breakdown
If you want RaW, I believe the argument would go like this...
1. The rules assume you are using Citadel models when playing the game.
2. Citadel models come with assembly instructions.
3. Assembling a model in a fashion other than directed in the assembly instructions results in something other than a proper Citadel model.
4. Ergo, conversions are counter to what GW assumes you'll be doing.
Issues with this...
1. It's an assumption and not a requirement.
2. Some unit options require conversion work. For example, GW doesn't sell a box kit to make a Master of the Forge on Bike, but the rules allow it. Therefore, conversions are required to play the game.
Check out my website. Editorials! Tutorials! Fun Times To Be Had! - kriswallminis.com
