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Sniper
-Always hits on 2+ or are immune to negative BS modifiers, looking at you invisibility!
-All shots are precision shots
-Look out sir can only be passed on a 6
-To hit roll of 6, the shot hits a vital point and the shot gains flesbane and instant death.
-A 4+ to wound roll always wounds regardless of toughness
-Rending

This should deter many deathstars by sniping the support models in a unit. Also, sniper to my knowledge is accessible by most armies so no major change their. What do you guys think?

What would the point of the Vindicare be then?

These rules mean that the very best sniper in the game is worse than these.

 curran12 wrote:
What would the point of the Vindicare be then?

These rules mean that the very best sniper in the game is worse than these.

Soo....change the rules to be better?

 Formosa wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
What would the point of the Vindicare be then?

These rules mean that the very best sniper in the game is worse than these.

Soo....change the rules to be better?

He has a point. At one point or another making everything better to compensate for inconsistencies like this is going to get so unwieldy and convoluted that another book will be needed to keep track of all of our house rules. On top of that, the vindicare rules are a gem in 7th edition where the rules look good on paper, feel good in practice, represent their fluff well and are not so over the top.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tautastic wrote:
Sniper
-Always hits on 2+ or are immune to negative BS modifiers, looking at you invisibility!
-All shots are precision shots
-Look out sir can only be passed on a 6
-To hit roll of 6, the shot hits a vital point and the shot gains flesbane and instant death.
-A 4+ to wound roll always wounds regardless of toughness
-Rending

This should deter many deathstars by sniping the support models in a unit. Also, sniper to my knowledge is accessible by most armies so no major change their. What do you guys think?

Ignoring BS modifiers works, but being able to see a unit that is supposed to be "invisible" is a stretch.

Precision shots all the time works too, but curran is right about not wanting to invalidate the Vindicare.

And then all the other ideas are a nice boost and would do what you want them to, but kind of skew the idea of snipers not only in an undesirable direction, but in the exact opposite direction of the fluff they represent . Right now, mechanically, snipers are represented by a system that encourages a Rate of Fire approach where having more snipers firing at one target makes them more effective, rather than a lone marksman supporting larger units and these changes would only exacerbate that problem into hyperbole.

I just want ATSKNF to be toned down so fear/ pinning/ morale in general would be relevant again, then give snippers pinning and make pinning work on hits, and not unsaved wounds. That would make snipers cool, crunchy and fluffy all at the same time.

I don't think simple changes to a single mechanic are going to break up death stars easily. Blanket fixes only make more problems for other parts of the game.

Odd though it may sound, simply making it so that Look Out Sir can't be applied to sniper shots would go a long way. A five-man sniper team is more like than not to get at least one precision shot. Being able to put precision shots on sargeants, special weapons, or even characters is great. The issue is that you have either a 1/2 or 5/6 chance of having the wound passed on to a model you care less about if the snipers dare to go after a character. If they can just keep piling wounds onto the main models in death stars that hand out the buffs, snipers would fill a niche pretty well.

Man, I think you are too late.
Deathstars are gone.

And yeah, Vindicar Assasin is pretty close to stuff you describet, but it's still not so cool, huh.

This seems like overkill.

Maybe the rending one and precision shot one would be ok. I could even see having a -1 modifier on LOS.

Give sniper precision shot on to hit rolls for BS-2 (so at BS4 sniper has precision shot on 5+). Minimum precision shot is 6+ and not allowed for snap shots. To wound rolls of 6+ ignore armor and cover saves.