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I recently played a 3500 pt game vs a 30k imperial fists army. The game only lasted 2 hours and I was completely powerless.

His list by memory:
Imperial fists:
Sigismund
17 assault marines w/jump packs
Glaive
2 spartan with quad lascannons
landraider with TL melta and what looked like a thunderfire cannon the front with a tactical squad inside (sorry not well versed in 30k)
predator with conversion beamer
2 Imperial knights Paladin variant
1 cerastus castigator I think (sword and huge TL bolters)

My List
Imperial knights:
1 Warlord Gerantus
2 crusdaders w/carapace anti air guns
1 warden with lightning fist and storm strike carapace weapon
2 paladins with storm strike
1 Cerastus knight Lancer

Iron Hands( Clan raukaan)
Chapter master on bike with gorgon chain and thunder hammer digital weapons
2: 5 man bike squads 2 grav guns sargent with power fist.

The Glaive is a beast! He one shotted gerantus first turn because of the D3 extra hits. and took off many hull points with his quad Las cannons. Also lost half of each bike squad first turn. On my first turn I moved up and got the bikes into range and took 6 hp off the glaive and a couple hp off of the castigator and a paladin. My warden and crusaders decimated the asssault squad by taking out 12 of the assault marines( his warlord trait gave him fearless so they didnt run) I was just out of charge range for the knights. His second turn he took out the lancer , Warden and the remaining bike squads. My second turn was a whiff I moved my crusader up within charge range of the special landraider. and my remaing three knights into charge range with his knights. I charged the landraider whiffed on the attacks but stomped it and flipped it. I charged his knights and the all took each other out. 6 knights dead one round of combat. This left me with the lone crusader who was oneshotted by the glaives beam cannon.

What can I do to better attack the glaive? I have 40 bikes 2 command squads with grav I could field a full gladius with up to 12 razorbacks. Should I drop the knights completely and go strictly marines? He suggested drop pod with sternguard and grav guns. c/c welcome!

Is this what 30k/40k looks like now? Between the two of you I count a total of 27 models that *werent* vehicles or special characters in a 3500 pt game. Thats absolutely stupid. Not saying you're stupid, just that if thats what the game has come to (its been a couple years since I last played) then I should just sell off the last of my crap now.

Arent Knights outside of an actual Knight list considered a LoW? He is only allowed one LoW in his army.

The more points you play the better a 30k list does even though his is barely a 30k list with all the knights he added in. You are at a major disadvantage unless you simply balls to the wall charged him. He likely has ceramite on all of his vehicles negating your thermal cannons.

Not to be mean, but your list kinda weird. Knowing you are playing 3500 points which involves massive firepower, you still brought 11 guys who pretty much anything that cant scratch a knight will unload on. Legions have massive amounts of firepower. Something tells me you brought battlecannons and thermal cannons which likely did very little to his army outside of the assault squad which also suffered from carrying a big "HIT ME" sign. You would have been better off either with an extra close combat knight, some dev squads, or heavy hitting tanks of your own.

But just remember, 3500 points is for funsies anyways. Its Apoc and not really a competitive game. Drop down to 2000 and you will be on par with a 30k legion for a real game.

Col. Dash wrote:
Arent Knights outside of an actual Knight list considered a LoW? He is only allowed one LoW in his army.

My List
Imperial knights:
1 Warlord Gerantus
2 crusdaders w/carapace anti air guns
1 warden with lightning fist and storm strike carapace weapon
2 paladins with storm strike
1 Cerastus knight Lancer


This is a Knights list. The FW 30k army lists have their own version of Imperial Knight lists.

using FOCs or no? Just curious before I comment on the 30k list (I play 30k)

I knew your list was a knight list, it was his that I was wondering. I don't believe 30k allows for formations unless it changed in one of the newer books.

Offhand, the 30K list was illegal. From the looks of it, the IF were the allied detachment (with only one troops choice), and I'm fairly sure allied detachments do not get a LOW, which would make the Glaive an illegal choice. He also had 4 heavy supports in there. But, I suppose it's possible be was using an alternative force org (there are a couple) or a Rite of War if one allows him to change his army make up like that, I would have to verify with my books later.

Additionally, when the Glaive's main gun hits a vehicle, it has the haywire rule, so if your opponent was trying to get his normal S8 hits and haywire hits on your vehicles, he was doing it wrong, you only get the haywire hits.

I really hate it when 30K players try to cheat (intentionally or mistakenly) against 40K players; it makes the rest of us look bad and only makes the Forgeworld stigma worse.

Actually no. He gets both. He gets the haywire simply if he hits, he still gets to roll for armor pen. Works the same way as that DE vehicle which has a less powerful but similar weapon.

He has both troops for the legion part of the list. Hidden in the text the land raider is carrying a tac squad from what I can see.

But like I said, I wasn't aware 30k lists got formations.

Col. Dash wrote:
Actually no. He gets both. He gets the haywire simply if he hits, he still gets to roll for armor pen.

No, you don't. The Haywire rule specifically states you roll on the haywire chart rather than rolling for armor penetration, and I don't see an exception to that in the Glaive's rules.

Additionally, the LR Achilles (the one with the "thunderfire cannon" [actually a quad mortar]) only has a transport capacity of 6, so could not have been carrying a tactical squad. Which brings us back to the fact that the 30K player was not using the standard force org. He could have been using the Onslaught detachment (which allows 4 HS and requires only 1 troops), but it does not allow an allied detachment, so we're back again to his list being illegal (and the Onslaught states you can never go first unless you seize the initiative, so if he was using that detachment, I wonder if that rule was remembered).

And formations are 40K only. They are available to 40K factions only, and 40K factions do not exist within the Allies chart for 30K, and thus cannot be taken with a 30K army.

Going to have to go look the haywire thing up. I know the DE vehicle gets both, Str 7 hit plus d3 haywire. I was wondering about transport capacity on that but I don't have my books in front of me.

Either way I think we can agree he got cheated either unintentionally or intentionally.

Col. Dash wrote:
I knew your list was a knight list, it was his that I was wondering. I don't believe 30k allows for formations unless it changed in one of the newer books.

My mistake.

As pointed out by Tannhauser42, it sounds like there were problems with the other guy's list.

We only played a 3500 point game because I wanted to field all my knights. He was playing with the onslaught formation. We rolled to see who goes first. We're both pretty new to our armies he just started playing 30k and this was my first time playing a knight list and against 30k. The glaive beam weapon is a super heavy killer it gets d3 extra his against super heavies. Also the beam stops when it hits a super heavy. He's a good guy and I don't think he would intentionally cheat.

HEY GUYS! I'm the other part of the game. Just wanted to address a few "concerns."

chaos0xomega wrote:Is this what 30k/40k looks like now? Between the two of you I count a total of 27 models that *werent* vehicles or special characters in a 3500 pt game. Thats absolutely stupid. Not saying you're stupid, just that if thats what the game has come to (its been a couple years since I last played) then I should just sell off the last of my crap now.

You are actually saying that we're stupid. So just don't dissemble about it. We don't represent " THE META." We had a fun game, throwing new toys at each other. Why the crap would you assume we represent what's going on in the overall game?

Col. Dash wrote:Arent Knights outside of an actual Knight list considered a LoW? He is only allowed one LoW in his army.

The more points you play the better a 30k list does even though his is barely a 30k list with all the knights he added in. You are at a major disadvantage unless you simply balls to the wall charged him. He likely has ceramite on all of his vehicles negating your thermal cannons.

Not to be mean, but your list kinda weird. Knowing you are playing 3500 points which involves massive firepower, you still brought 11 guys who pretty much anything that cant scratch a knight will unload on. Legions have massive amounts of firepower. Something tells me you brought battlecannons and thermal cannons which likely did very little to his army outside of the assault squad which also suffered from carrying a big "HIT ME" sign. You would have been better off either with an extra close combat knight, some dev squads, or heavy hitting tanks of your own.

But just remember, 3500 points is for funsies anyways. Its Apoc and not really a competitive game. Drop down to 2000 and you will be on par with a 30k legion for a real game.

My list was legal. See below.

Tannhauser42 wrote:Offhand, the 30K list was illegal. From the looks of it, the IF were the allied detachment (with only one troops choice), and I'm fairly sure allied detachments do not get a LOW, which would make the Glaive an illegal choice. He also had 4 heavy supports in there. But, I suppose it's possible be was using an alternative force org (there are a couple) or a Rite of War if one allows him to change his army make up like that, I would have to verify with my books later.

Additionally, when the Glaive's main gun hits a vehicle, it has the haywire rule, so if your opponent was trying to get his normal S8 hits and haywire hits on your vehicles, he was doing it wrong, you only get the haywire hits.

I really hate it when 30K players try to cheat (intentionally or mistakenly) against 40K players; it makes the rest of us look bad and only makes the Forgeworld stigma worse.

You. You're assuming I'm cheating against a friend of mine whom I have played against for like six years. Screw you.

Here was my list:
Battles in the Age of Darkness Detachment

Hq- Praetor, jump pack
Assault squad, melta bombs, power weapons, 17 guys
Tactical squad, ten guys (these were in the spartan)
Heavy support:
Achiles
Spartan
Useless Conversion Beam Predator
LOW- Glaive (we did this right, only using the haywire against vehicles)

Allied detachment (I may have done this wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was fine)
Questoris Knights:
Seneschal, Castigator
Troops: Errant and Paladin.

But seriously, in a game where one guy is using SEVEN FRICKING KNIGHTS, who cares if the other guy has three in an allied detachment?

Hope that cleared up your "concerns." And by concerns, I mean, "personal insults and pointless rules lawyering."

Peace.

Responses were made based on YOUR friend's report. He said your tactical squad was in the Achilles, you say it was in the Spartan. He said you had Sigismund, you say you didn't. He said you had two Spartans, you say you had one. How are we to know who is reporting the truth? Perhaps your problem isn't with us, who replied in good faith based on the information given, but with the person who supplied that information?

And, Rule #1, please.

My problem is, you're immediately assuming that I'm cheating; not only that I would cheat against a buddy, but assuming that I would cheat against anyone. You flatly stated that I cheated.

Memory is faulty. I have the list in my phone. Want a notarized copy? Give me a break.

Reminder: Rule Number One = Be Polite

And try to keep in mind that not everything that might offend one is intended to do so. Calling out a list as illegal does not amount to personally insulting the person playing that list.

Dornishgirlsdontcount wrote:
HEY GUYS!...... Words /snip

As a fellow 30k player, most people do not know or rules or when you don't last thing likes what FOC or Rite of War you are using, if can look illegal or wrong. People asked those questions, myself included.

Now going Internet rage angry to start didn't help your case. It's online. You don't know how it was intended, so don't automatically take it the wrong way. Also work with your friend so that if he's going to start a conversation on here, he posts the relevant information so people aren't confused or unintentionally mislead.