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The latest rumors indicate the Imperial Guard will get a release after the tyranids which I am super excited for. As an loyal Guard player I am really looking forward to what kind of decurion style detachment they will give the Guard. There are so many possibilities it has me chomping at the bit. Anyway enough of my fan boy squeeing I wanna know what you think the guard need to revitalize the army. Now I am looking for ideas for detachment rules, formation rules, or just improvements to the models rules themselves that you would like to see in the next codex.

I am not looking for suggestions that would make the Guard overpowered like the newest tau codex with their rear armor hitting ignoring cover 2+ cover save monstrous creatures that forces you to snap fire against them... sorry I digress.

Here are the minor fixes and tweaks I would like to see in the upcoming guard codex.

Vox caster- it should increase the range at which orders can be given rather than re-roll failed orders, let formations/other upgrades handle the re-rolls.

Chimera- All true guard players felt the point increase in the last codex like a slap in the face. The new price was clearly set not because chimeras where too strong but to make the new tarux look better. Either drop it back to 55ppm or increase the side armor from 10 to 11.

Ogryns/Bullgrins- I'm not sure what needs to be done to these guys to make me want to play them but as it stands I would never put them into a list. At the very least they need a 5-10 ppm drop in price and perhaps the ability to buy them as bodyguards for command squads like a generic Nork de gog.

Wyverns- As much as I hate to say it... these guys are under-costed... tossing out 4 twin linked S 4 shred, ignoring cover, small blast barrage shots at 48" range is too good for 65 pts. they should get a price increase of 10-15ppm.

Hydra- is a good model in theory... but forcing it to snap fire against non flyer skimmers prevents it from being good... I would give it back its ability to ignore jink saves (not all cover saves, perhaps have a formation that improves the ignore jink to ignore cover) and let it at the choose to fire at flyers this turn or not so that the hydra gains the anti-light vehicle/anti infantry versatility it deserves.

Valkerie/Vendetta- I feel that these models are priced just about right (even though I morn the price increase of the vendetta last codex... but lets be honest it was hugely under-costed) but I feel that the grav shoot rules need to be revamped. auto destroying units that grav shoot in that scatter poorly makes it to dangerous to use. I would instead let grav shooting models only scater 1d6 inches and just kill models that can't be placed rather than the whole squad. This will reduce the risk making it a more viable option and synergy well with the tempestus... speaking of which

Tempestus- right now we are paying space marine level prices for much more fragile models, and yes I know they have deep strike which is amazing but because they are so fragile they have no chance of surviving any serious retribution meaning they have 1 turn to do their thing before dying. So I feel that they need a points drop... I would guess 2ppm to bring them down to 10pts a piece, which is what I think is a fair price for a guy with a mediocre short range gun who is already paying for a special weapon to be remotely useful. and a nice bonus but not necessarily needed is to give them a built in vox caster since the model has a antenna already.

Pask- at 70 pts he is hard to justify on anything but a punisher... I would like to either see a points decrease for him or an improvement to the bonus's he gives to a leamon Russ. He really needs remove the gets hot from the exterminator's main plasma gun or at the very least let you re roll the gets hot.

Tank commander orders- Right now the orders are pretty much used to counteract the fact you are forced to squadron your tanks to take a tank commander. I would like to see the orders be actual buffs rather than to negate the negatives the tank commander forces you to have.

orders- are just fine I wouldn't change them

Baneblades- since everyone seems to be getting superheavies I would like to see the baneblade and all of its variants rolled into the main codex. I don't feel like they need a points adjustment for the most part but would like to have the option to buy a veteran tank commander to increase their BS to 4.

Yarrick- Is a good model but criminally overcosted, same for the other unique characters.

Heavy weapons teams- need to be able to buy upgrades cheaper, right now they are too fragile to invest the points into, and at LD 7 they run away to easily and its too hard for them to receive orders. A combination of pts decrease and ld bump up to 8 is in order I feel.

Ratlings- 10ppm for a Toughness 2 model with a BS 4 sniper rifle... if the wraithknight/stormsurge were not gargantuan creatures I would say these guys are perfectly costed but since the things they would be a good counter against are more or less immune to sniper I think that ratlings need a buff... either shrouding or infiltrate would be nice

Tarux- the base tarux is an okay buy for a dedicated transport and doesn't really need a change but the Prime costs way to much considering its more fragile than a rino and almost triple the cost. and yes it has a good amount of fire power but its fragile nature outweighs that I feel.


Basilisk- Sits at a good number points wise but I think a fancy formation where you take 3 of them and get a super blast like the space marine formation would be fun

Deathstrike missile- with all the D weapons floating around this ICBM should be one.

Sentinels- their greatest weakness is their BS 3, not that it should be changed, we are guardsmen after all not super soldiers. Outflanking Scout sentinels with heavy flamers is a good strategy and I will stand buy it. Armored sentinels need something to give it an umph... I am leaning towards a good formation but am not sure what the rules for that should be.


So what do you all think? Are my suggestions good or crazy as a bat? What would you like to see changed? Do you have any good ideas for the inevitable Imperial Guard detachment?

I still struggle to see why Wyverns are so highly praised. Yes, there's 4 blasts, but they're only S4 with Shred, and the general consensus I've seen on here that Blasts are automatically bad, even more so with mediocre BS3.

It's 4 blasts that are twin-linked, with shred, with ignores cover, with barrage. Wyverns are gold because they can sit down behind cover and just bomb the tar out of the opposition. They're also dirt cheap for what they do at 65 points. What they do to Ork and Nid hordes is just horrific.

Single Blasts are bad, especially with short range - but with four that are TL, you need horrendous luck to not rack up a decent number of hits, and for the kind of targets you're engaging with a Wyvern, bolter-equivalent firepower does just fine. It's also quite long-range and dirt-cheap. Wyverns are exceedingly strong, except against the kind of targets where they're almost entirely useless. This is why they only need a modest price increase, not a large one.

Tempestus Scions should definitely be re-priced, though - the point of comparison, I'd think, is the basic Battle Sister. Tempestus Scions have better guns and get orders, Sisters have better armor, Shield of Faith and Acts of Faith. Given that, I think the Tempestus Scions should be 1ppm less than Battle Sisters (who should, themselves, probably be 1ppm cheaper).

How could ratlings possibly be costed correctly at 10ppm for a T2 bs4 sniper model when you can get a T4 Bs4 sniper model for 2pts more with scout, infiltrate, and move through cover, and chapter tactics out of the SM codex?

They not only need the rules you suggested, but they also need a points drop.

Heck, Kroot with sniper rounds are only 7ppm, and they're T3. Granted, they're BS3 also, but they have more shinies than Ratlings. Ratlings should be dirt-cheap. The dangerous bit about them should be just how many of the squishy little blighters you can get in a small points total.

One thing that I would like to see as the bonus for the inevitable Guardcurion formation is giving every Sergeant/Squad Leader model in the formation the Voice of Command special rule, though limiting them to use only the Junior Officer orders (or maybe even less, to balance it). It would make our gimmick even more powerful and would allow for a lot of flexibility in deployment and usage.

I would also love the abhuman units to get something good, I really the idea of Bullgryns and their moving cover save wall, but there's absolutely no incentive to run them.

Heavy Weapons teams should come with free choice of Mortar/Autocannon/Heavy Bolter and then pay to upgrade to the more exotic and powerful weapons.

Deathstrike getting the D is a given, I'd also like to see the Manticore Missile options from Imperial Armour actually included in the codex. Drop Sentinels in the core codex would be cool as well, and might give Vendettas another option for threatening cargo (I'm envisioning something like the Stormraven's ability to have a Dreadnaught as well as some models inside, though I wouldnt want the codex to just start copying rules from other codexes).

Guardcurion... you are an amazing person Lord_Vader. I proclaim that Guardcurion shall be the Internets official name for the upcoming Imperial Guard detachment! Spread the word and rejoice!

I would like to see either several Core Choices as an option for their Choice Detachments, each one representing an AM Doctrine; OR have Doctrines instituted ala the Marine Chapter Traits. With regiments beyond number, they should be reflected in the armies in one way or the other.

The benefit for the first is that allows for mixed Doctrines to be in place, as the AM often combines regiments from different worlds so they are less likely to rebel.

The benefit for the latter is that it doesn't matter if you take the Choice Detachment, a Role Detachment, or a Formation, they still benefit.

If they do this, it would be impressive.

Bit of an odd one but I'd like to see the Augur Array price reduced to the same price as Locator beacons for marines or have a massive increase in effectiveness (maybe no scatter deepstrike and blast weapons with in 9"), just not worth taking on a vehicle when they are so squishy.

Going against the flow but I'd quite like to see boost in Scions rather than a points decrease to differentiate them from veterans, making their stats equivalent to DKOK storm grenadiers or D99 with carapace and hotshots. Tweak the hot shot lasgun to be assault 2 18" (although I wouldn't mind assault 2 12") to allow them to get a decent weight of fire on target and make them shock troopers to bully weak units off objectives but not to the point where they can take on CC specialists.
Also some different deployment options, I remember there being some old special operations rules, forget exactly how they went but something along the following.
Airborne- Deepstrike, move through cover
Recon- Infiltrate, stealth
Shock trooper- treat vehicles as assault vehicles, furious charge or FnP (too much?)

Chucking about figures for D99 troops with values for hotshot lasgun and carapace obtained from codex inquisition give a price of 17 points, but from what I can see popular opinion seems to be that those options are over-priced. How would folks feel about pricing them at 14pts? Same value as a marine, squishier but slightly shootier and much more flexible?

Vehicles need a complete overhaul in the game. Marine vehicles are bad, too, not just IG vehicles. IG are bad because vehicles are bad.

Martel732 wrote:
Vehicles need a complete overhaul in the game. Marine vehicles are bad, too, not just IG vehicles. IG are bad because vehicles are bad.

Switch it over to toughness and wounds, add a couple of vehicle USRs that make them immune to poison/fleshbane, but have other usr that do the same thing like armorbane. BAM! all your problems fixed.

Charistoph wrote:
I would like to see either several Core Choices as an option for their Choice Detachments, each one representing an AM Doctrine; OR have Doctrines instituted ala the Marine Chapter Traits. With regiments beyond number, they should be reflected in the armies in one way or the other.

The benefit for the first is that allows for mixed Doctrines to be in place, as the AM often combines regiments from different worlds so they are less likely to rebel.

The benefit for the latter is that it doesn't matter if you take the Choice Detachment, a Role Detachment, or a Formation, they still benefit.

If they do this, it would be impressive.

I do like you idea of letting the guardcurion have lots of core choices. That way if you go all tanks you don't have to pick up the infantry detachment and visa versa while still maintaining the option to mix.

What do you think of letting tanks ignore snap firing of ordinance weapons for a leamon russ formation? Would that be enough or should it have additional bonuses?

I'll expand in a bit but the biggest issue that needs fixing with guard is the current state of the game absolutely annihilates rear armour 10-11 vehicles. This means every taurox, chimera, leman Russ chassis melts to the mass amount of melta, haywire and tankhunter units in the game and only gets compounded with each new release that adds more and more anti tank rules.... Grav, str d, eldar auto explode troops, tau mass tank hunters with auto rear hitting units, non scatter deep striking units that assault as soon as they land and murder rear armour.

Seriously what's the point of paying 200 points for armour for a slow moving vehicle that costs a lot because it is suppose to be durable if it isn't durable.

The offense of these vehicles are fine the defense needs help. I like the idea of the formations in the new supplement.

Enemy units within 6 in of a leman Russ squadron move as if in difficult terrain. This provides some protection from assault.

Fire barrels equal str4 ap5 d3 auto hits on the first squad to assault vehicles with this upgrade for 5 points.

Tech priest require a major boost.
If within 6 in of vehicle subtracts 2 from penetration table and 1 from str d table.

I wouldn't mind a distortion field upgrade on a tech priest for 50 points. Provides a 5+ invul save against all shooting atks to all friendly units within 6in of tech priest. (Aka Ork Kff)

Smoke grenades usable every turn however still takes your shooting phase unless you use tank order.

Extra armour adds 1 AV to rear armour.

Give us the above and guard tanks would be decent again.

And of course lumbering behemoth again that allows you to fire sponsons at full bs rather than snap shots.

gungo wrote:
I'll expand in a bit but the biggest issue that needs fixing with guard is the current state of the game absolutely annihilates rear armour 10-11 vehicles. This means every taurox, chimera, leman Russ chassis melts to the mass amount of melta, haywire and tankhunter units in the game and only gets compounded with each new release that adds more and more anti tank rules.... Grav, str d, eldar auto explode troops, tau mass tank hunters with auto rear hitting units, non scatter deep striking units that assault as soon as they land and murder rear armour.

Seriously what's the point of paying 200 points for armour for a slow moving vehicle that costs a lot because it is suppose to be durable if it isn't durable.

The offense of these vehicles are fine the defense needs help. I like the idea of the formations in the new supplement.

Enemy units within 6 in of a leman Russ squadron move as if in difficult terrain. This provides some protection from assault.

Fire barrels equal str4 ap5 d3 auto hits on the first squad to assault vehicles with this upgrade for 5 points.

Tech priest require a major boost.
If within 6 in of vehicle subtracts 2 from penetration table and 1 from str d table.

I wouldn't mind a distortion field upgrade on a tech priest for 50 points. Provides a 5+ invul save against all shooting atks to all friendly units within 6in of tech priest. (Aka Ork Kff)

Smoke grenades usable every turn however still takes your shooting phase unless you use tank order.

Extra armour adds 1 AV to rear armour.

Give us the above and guard tanks would be decent again.

And of course lumbering behemoth again that allows you to fire sponsons at full bs rather than snap shots.

These are honestly all great suggestions, I feel 50 points might be a bit much for the distortion field though especially when a certain marine character can give 5+ invul saves to every rhino, razorback, and land raider in your army just by existing, along with doing A LOT of other stuff for around 180pts.

I agree it should be 25point upgrade however I just copied what orks received. Not saying it's not overpriced it likely is however Orks should get the same benefit from the KFF.

Veteran tankers - please for the love of the Emperor just give us BS 4 tanks for 10PPM.

 master of ordinance wrote:
Veteran tankers - please for the love of the Emperor just give us BS 4 tanks for 10PPM.

Not just that but certain things like co axial stubber are pretty much necessary to make single shot weapons like the vanquished canon useful.
Beast hunter shells also make that vehicle competitve with monster hunter Insta death shells. Im fine with using forgeworld rules but these options should be in the codex to make the vanquisher competitive.

I'd also like to see the auto cannon turret on the chimera be an option in the codex as well.

If the vendetta requires a small forgeworld upgrade I see no reason why you can't just buy the different turret upgrades from forgeworld either.

I can't remember if I asked this in another thread but here goes:

How fond are you of sponson weapons on Leman Russ tanks?

I know that if they're cheap, they'll get taken but do you think that they're a big part of Leman Russ tanks or could you do without them even if they were properly balanced?

My point is that I really like the look of Leman Russ tanks without sponson weapons, so I was curious about your thought regarding this. Maybe you magnetize them?

I don't use them but I magnetize the sponsons just in case.

I want to see doctrines. Something like catachans automatically get infiltrate but cant combine infantry squads in platoons
The whole army gets Deepstrike, but limits their options(Like no tanks, nothing like that)

I understand the WANT associated with the deathstrike missile. But honestly strength D on a 10" template realistically isn't going to happen.

mhalko1 wrote:
I understand the WANT associated with the deathstrike missile. But honestly strength D on a 10" template realistically isn't going to happen.

Ye of little faith...

But you could totally manage a D/10/8 template like the current superheavy explosion.

mhalko1 wrote:
I understand the WANT associated with the deathstrike missile. But honestly strength D on a 10" template realistically isn't going to happen.

I agree, that's a tad ridiculous, at least for the current points. I would be perfectly fine with them have an upgrade for the vortex warhead from back in apoc or IA apoc.

Aegis1650 wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:
I understand the WANT associated with the deathstrike missile. But honestly strength D on a 10" template realistically isn't going to happen.

I agree, that's a tad ridiculous, at least for the current points. I would be perfectly fine with them have an upgrade for the vortex warhead from back in apoc or IA apoc.

I'm sure people aren't hopeful for a ten inch blast with D....
I think whenever the new dex comes out, it will be D with large blast. Not unreasonable at all considering the shadowsword gets a blast of equal value every turn.

Since it's a one and done version. I'm hoping for a vortex missle death strike version that's blast and vortex version. Have it scatter across the battlefield causing damage to your opponent each turn will be fun.