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hello all,

so following on from my previous thread regarding the Imperial shuttle (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/670241.page) I had a local x-wing tournament on the weekend and I took this list:

Omicron Group pilot
title shuttle
APL
2xrecon specialists

Winged Gundark

1x Black Squadron Tie Fighter

3x Obsidian Squadron tie fighters

having the two recon specialists in the shuttle actually paid off a few times. given that every time I performed a Focus action I received 3 focus tokens in total, I used one for combat and I had spare two for altering evade dice.

I admit that I did come in 7th but I didn't go in to win only there for a bit of fun.

Sorry, but this doesn't make much sense. With only one green die you're not getting much out of having additional focus tokens for defense, the title is doing almost nothing for you, and you've got an expensive paperweight once the shuttle inevitably gets out-maneuvered. Those upgrades are giving you benefits, sure, but way less than you could get by putting the points into other ships.

Also, Winged Gundark is mediocre at best. For only one more point you can get Dark Curse, one of the most annoying ships in the game.

No but if I have 1:3 (?) of rolling a focus on the defence I would happily take the token to modify it.

you're right though yes the points could of been spent on other ships, but again I didn't go in to win I just wanted to have a bit of fun and experiment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also the "Paperweight" actually took out 6 ships over the three rounds and was destroyed only twice.

 captain bloody fists wrote:
No but if I have 1:3 (?) of rolling a focus on the defence I would happily take the token to modify it.

1/4 actually. And let's look at this in more detail:

A hull upgrade simply adds a fixed +1 HP for 3 points. It is universally agreed to be overpriced on 1-agility ships, and by a huge margin. Nobody in a competitive environment will ever waste points on adding a hull upgrade to a shuttle. So any upgrade which provides the same cost/benefit ratio as a hull upgrade on a shuttle is wasted points as well.

A recon specialist adds a focus token every turn for 3 points, which can turn into +1 HP if you roll an {eye} result. For simplicity we'll assume that your first focus token every turn is used on offense, and you never "waste" {eye} results on rolls that happen after you have spent all of your tokens. These are assumptions that favor the recon specialist, and make it +1 HP every four times you roll your green die.

An average attack on a shuttle is probably at least 2 HP of damage. Obviously this varies significantly, but 2 HP is a pretty decent approximation when you consider all of the dice luck, single crit results turning into multiple HP lost, etc.

So, can the recon specialist beat the hull upgrade? Every four attacks you get +1 HP, but you're losing 8 HP over those four attacks. So you probably get one HP out of the recon specialist, matching the hull upgrade, but you're dead before you can get a second HP to beat the hull upgrade. Your first recon specialist is barely breaking even with the hull upgrade under very generous assumptions, and remember that the hull upgrade is a garbage-tier choice. Your second recon specialist is just throwing away points. You'll be dead, on average, before you get any benefit out of it. Cutting those 3 points out of your list entirely for an initiative bid would be a vastly superior choice.

TL,DR conclusion: never put recon specialists on shuttles.

you're right though yes the points could of been spent on other ships, but again I didn't go in to win I just wanted to have a bit of fun and experiment.

Then why are you coming here to talk about your strategy as if it's a good idea? If you aren't trying to win then why does it matter what you took?

(And honestly, why play the game at all if you aren't going to attempt to win?)

Also the "Paperweight" actually took out 6 ships over the three rounds and was destroyed only twice.

Sounds like you took advantage of being in the bottom end of the rankings and got to play against easy opponents. Against good players shuttles are usually going to get one effective pass in the opening turns, spend a long time with few or no shots, and maybe eventually get lucky with something late in the game. When building a list with a shuttle you always assume that it will be useless after the first 1-2 turns of combat.

I didn't come here to say that it was a brilliant idea, I said it was an interesting idea that I had used.

I knew I wasn't going to win the comp so I didn't take it seriously because it was my first time. I could have easily taken the most filthiest Vader tie swarm and probably placed higher but I wanted to run something different and frankly I stand by it because I'm not a hard core elitist player. I was there to have some fun and roll some dice.

Using a crew to provide you with additional defence isn't a bad plan - the problem is (competitiveness aside) that you've got an issue with action economy: a shuttle will need to pull off hard turns on a fairly regular basis to keep its nose pointed at people.

As a result, if I want to toughen up a shuttle, I'd feel happier using 'actionless' upgrades like sensor jammer and flight instructor.

Stacking recon specialists is a nice idea if you've got the means to use and abuse focus tokens via elite pilot talents and/or secondary weapons. I can't think of any combinations off the top of my head but it might bear thinking on.

And i did find that later on in the last two rounds. Last game came down to my shuttle and an A wing. Couldn't clean the stress fast enough and ended up being outmanoeuvred

I know the feeling. If I want to use a shuttle as a gunship rather than just a place for Vader or the Emperor to sit, my first port of call is usually Advanced Sensors + Engine Upgrade - it takes a lot of space, but being able to bank then turn and get your nose around 135' in a single round can surprise a lot of people.

I'm still relatively new at the game but geez that's sounds like a decent lead-out Iocarno24

Problem with that loadout is that, for just a couple points more, you can grab a Firespray. This gives you K-Turns, the Aux Arc, and a better dial. Your HP:Shield ratio is worse, but you get the evade action plus an extra point of PS and Agility.