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Been painting mostly for the last while and not been doing as much playing as I'd like, so I turn to you the people of Dakka for your thoughts and suggestions on what rules you consider to be most competitive for wargaming.

It's a pretty open topic. Maybe you like the most popular set because you can go to a lot of tournaments, or maybe you prefer something with balance, or depth of rules giving you insane options for your figures.

Whatever your choice please feel free to share.

Well, I think the PP rules for WMH combined with steamroller provides the most competitive rule set.
The rule books are freely available as is the steamroller PDF.

Zond wrote:
Been painting mostly for the last while and not been doing as much playing as I'd like, so I turn to you the people of Dakka for your thoughts and suggestions on what rules you consider to be most competitive for wargaming.

It's a pretty open topic. Maybe you like the most popular set because you can go to a lot of tournaments, or maybe you prefer something with balance, or depth of rules giving you insane options for your figures.

Whatever your choice please feel free to share.

Warmahordes.....

But you have to deal with the snotty attitude of the page 5'rs.

Warmachine is definitely the easiest recommendation if all you're looking for is straight up competitive gameplay, but the game isn't for everyone. I wasted a lot of money on it before realizing I just totally despise the game. Other than that I've heard Infinity is also rock solid on the balance front and I do believe it has a healthy tournament scene. Malifaux I can't really comment on as I know virtually nothing about it, but it gets more popular every day. X-Wing has a very vibrant tournament scene with good balance, though the burden of knowledge for that is quickly approaching Warmachine levels with all of the upgrade and pilot cards out now.

Hope that helps!

Going to plug X-wing.

-Balance is good (Only one truly unredeemable ship).

-Cost of entry is low (a couple hundred bucks for a good list tops, even when buying ships just for one card).

-Mechanics favor predicting opponents moves, and planning ahead by a couple of turns for movement.

-Variety of playstyles available, from Fatties to Arc Dodgers.

I dig X Wing for my competitive fix. It's the one game where I will go to a tournament straight up just to try and outplay people. For flames of war and bolt action it was always more of a way to just meet other gamers and goof around.

X Wing has a very healthy community and usually the guys in it are very friendly. I often see top table players helping each other move ships, hold templates, and find rules with little arguing. Top players are usually pretty friendly to newbies too. They'll still crush you because they need that 100/0 mov to get to the top table, but they'll give tips and try to give you advice on how to fly your list so the next guy can't do the same.

Overall I think it has one of the healthiest outlooks for a community out there. I've only met one jerk and he never came back, everyone else was super friendly and a great time to play against. Especially at the kind of "meet at the store and see what you can win with level." A lot of the really good players in my area try out weird ideas for lists so you see these awesome combos top players come up with as a laugh and suddenly you realize that it can actually work.

There are a few meta defining lists out there, but there's a lot of room for variety, especially since the fat ship nerfs (FFG really keeps an eye on the game and even has top tourney players writing articles on their website) I've never seen the same list win a tournament twice.

X-Wing, DBx, Malifaux, Flames Of War and Warmachine are all pretty good in a tournament setting.

Though to be fair I can't think of a single non-GW game that doesn't work in a tournament.

How about Bolt Action?

Historicals, and specifically Ancients (including Mediaevals, covering 3000 BC to 1500 AD), is the traditional source of competition level rules.

WRG Ancients was written in 1969 as a competition rule set for the Society of Ancients.

WRG 7th edition was published in about 1990. People still play 6th and 7th editions.

De Bellis Antiquitatis has a lively tournament scene, despite having been written as a complete change from the rules mechanisms of WRG Ancients. (Small armies, quick games, no points.)

De Bellis Magistorum Militum is the modern, competition rule set developed from DBA.

The other big game in Ancients these days is Field Of Glory.

 wuestenfux wrote:
How about Bolt Action?

It's pretty good in tournaments as well. I think some places add some restrictions on vehicle mounted flame throwers as being OP, but that's about the extent of it.

LOTR SBG is one of the best rulesets I have seen and very balanced with little to no scenarios not covered by the book. The problem is the power creep with the hobbit stuff but even then its not like eldar in 40k. They are simple and easy to understand, moves fast if players know their stuff (as all players should in a competitive environment), and easy to comp should the group feel the need. The games can take a long time but it is not game breaking to have a time limit on it unlike other games like 40k where its you go I go. The game can end at any time without ruining the outcome that was generally inevitable after 2 hours of playing.

X-wing is very nice. I highly recommend malifaux with the caveat that it has a steep learning curve. If you like repetitive objectives and deck building (I don't really- got very tired with it eventually) then yeah, wm/h is solid.

Infinity is an absolutely cracking tournament game (I'm assuming that's what the OP means).

Really well balanced, it's actually really tiring to play because it requires so much tactical input from the player. Had a recent game where I played badly, made a couple of bad decisions and my opponent played well. Don't begrudge it at all though because it seems 'fair', which I think is the mark of a well balanced game.

 Kilkrazy wrote:


The other big game in Ancients these days is Field Of Glory.

I've heard a lot of clubs have stopped playing FoG now because of the new rule set. Art de la Guerre is apparently getting a lot more popular at the same time.

For a smaller number of models I love Warmachine/Hordes by Privateer Press. Some of the most fun games I've played have been in that system. I also like that it has a constantly evolving meta. Due to my school schedule I stop playing for months at a time and when I come back I always see healthy evolution in the meta. The steam roller scenarios keep things interesting as well.

For a larger number of models I like Kings of War by Mantic games. Second edition has been pretty solid so far.

For both of those games I have fun even when I lose. To me that's a good sign.

 Pacific wrote:
Infinity is an absolutely cracking tournament game (I'm assuming that's what the OP means).

Really well balanced, it's actually really tiring to play because it requires so much tactical input from the player. Had a recent game where I played badly, made a couple of bad decisions and my opponent played well. Don't begrudge it at all though because it seems 'fair', which I think is the mark of a well balanced game.

 Kilkrazy wrote:


The other big game in Ancients these days is Field Of Glory.

I've heard a lot of clubs have stopped playing FoG now because of the new rule set. Art de la Guerre is apparently getting a lot more popular at the same time.

FoG issued a second edition, but it was basically just tidying things up, no major changes. None of the army books were re-issued, AFAIK.

I've not heard of Art de la Guerre, but I'm not deeply into Ancients at the moment so it may have passed me by. I will take a look at it.

I don't do tournaments, but Warmachine and X wing are probably your best bet for a really tight and balanced tournament games that are great for competition.

If you know some old school folks, then Hordes of the Things (HoTT, a derivation of DBA) is a very tight and well-known (among grongnards) ruleset with very little room for mis-interpretation.

Lastly, and perhaps surprisingly, Kings of War is a very tight ruleset. I'm not sure the new version has quite shaken out into a meta, but as far as a ruleset with minimal ambiguity, it's great.

I have to put a vote in for Guild Ball, which is rapidly gaining popularity across the UK and Europe. It's a fantastic ruleset that blends together a complex miniature skirmish game with a sports game. Each guild has its own theme, and wants to play the game in its own way depending on its strengths and weaknesses. It has a dedicated, large playtesting group that's 6 months ahead of general release, and the guys who created it are top level Warmachine players who got tired of that game.

Another suggestion for fantasy mass battles: Mayhem. Unit-based like KoW, HoTT, or... any other mass combat game barring one or two. Build your unit's basic stats and traits, or use the free download lists.
In-game you make a lot of tactical decisions. More command points from your generated pool must be used to control units that are further from a leader model, are disordered, or that have already acted that turn. You have to decide where and when to spend them to have most effect.
Also, stats like movement and combat ability are given as a polydice type (d4-d20) rather than a basic number. Juggle risk vs. reward by making a dice roll or taking the default half-value. E.g. a d12 movement stat is fast, potentially up to 12" if you roll high, but you can also roll 1". Or choose the default 6". Lower numbers are better in combat - a unit with a d6 combat stat is better than a unit with d8, because it has a better chance of a lower result in an opposed roll for combat. The d8 unit can choose their default result of 4 and hope the fiercer unit rolls 5 or 6, or the d6 unit can take a default of 3 and force the weaker unit to roll 1 or 2 on d8. Rolls can be improved by adding dice or improving dice types, according to unit type, traits, weapons, positioning etc. E.g. a unit of spearmen with a d10 combat stat can roll d6 against a cavalry unit. And so on.