Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Now keep in mind, this is based solely upon my subjective view, my personal opinion, my touchy-feely, wishy-washy for lack of a better term...analysis?

To me, it feels as if INFINITY has lost a bit of its luster with the release of N3.

And I'm not sure why!

The rules seem great - a bit tighter...

The minis are fantastic - if maybe a little 'generic' looking as they transition to full-on CAD mode. (Scale Creep kind of sucks)

The game and company seemed to be riding a rising wave of popularity towards the end of 2nd edition, heading into N3.

It doesn't feel like CB is all that 'officially active' now too - at least not outside of Spain?

But...'something' just seems to be missing now...

...and I can't quite put my finger on it, and I certainly can't quantify it.

So, I ask you - am I just imagining all of this?

Is INFINITY and CB better than ever?

Is INFINITY more popular then ever, continuing its climb up the charts, with impressive year on year growth?

Absolutely yes.

The scale leap is atrocious and invalidated my entire fresh bought Corregidor army literally overnight. That's been a huge sore point for me and quite frankly does nothing to make me really want to play these days.

Additionally, we're now almost three years since the announcement of the book with the working title/project name "Acheron Falls" and still have zilch to show for it.
Add in their insistence about "Human Sphere and Campaign: Paradiso were thoroughly taken into account when writing N3" and there's a reason why I'm more active in playing X-Wing, 40k, and Age of Sigmar than I am with Infinity despite having a pretty good community locally.

Well that and their stupid ITS. So dumb.

In Australia Infinity is still massively growing. N3 enhanced it, it didn't slow it down.

Personally I've slowed down on it simply because I'm feeling a bit of burnout. I'll come back around but right now I'm more interested in other games, namely Malifaux, Imperial Assault and Zombicide.

Kan - I am not a fan of the Scale Creep either, though I suppose I know 'why' they did it?

And like I said, I can't really say what's making me feel this way.

For all I know, INFINITY is growing like mad still.

Though I also feel as if the traffic in the Infinity Forums here has slowed down as well...

I don't think it's scale creep so much as now finally able to set a definitive scale and stick to it using digital sculpting.

Most don't understand how ramshackle miniature production is, and for physical sculpting you're just sending art off to a sculptor and waiting for them to get back to you. If they finish, it's hard to outright say that they didn't do a job if it's out of scale.

I think the main problem is that instead of taking the time ahead of time to consolidate everything N3, they split the player base and effectively cut in half the number of usable models they had for the release of N3.

Even now we're missing updated rules for fireteams and a majority of the game's models. That's a very GW thing to do, release a new edition with only a handwave towards updating by expecting people to use the outdated N2 rules.

I've expressed this opinion many times, and it's interesting to see the effects of this now.

People are excited about the game until they realize how much if missing or only partially implemented. The models are great, but good luck using them. So people will likely buy the miniatures, and play sometimes, but it's hard to get really excited when there's so much stumbling on the rules front.

ITS is okay, but over reliant on complicated or specific objectives placements and terrain setups. I'd rather see them adopt something that works better with more impromptu table setups.

And there seems to be a real lack of substantive news out of CB HQ as of late too...

I'd say Annual holidays - more than likely - is the reason for that. I know V is away on holidays and probably a few others.

In many countries, paid holidays at the end of the year is the normal thing - many businesses close down for a couple of weeks, so even if you wanted to work, you can't.

 chromedog wrote:
I'd say Annual holidays - more than likely - is the reason for that. I know V is away on holidays and probably a few others.

In many countries, paid holidays at the end of the year is the normal thing - many businesses close down for a couple of weeks, so even if you wanted to work, you can't.

I think he is meaning more in general.

They've clammed up quite a bit in comparison to how they used to be regarding previews and the like.

I just played my first two games last weekend after running through Icestorm a couple of times.
Been buying the models for years, if anything N3 reduced the intimidation factor of jumping into the rules.

I can see that the transition to a new edition could have been cleaner, but I appreciate that they are really a very small studio.
The scale issues are frustrating, but par for the course.

I think they generally make smart use of their partners, not taking on stuff in house that they don't need to. They are definitely leaning on them too heavily for marketing. Exclusives are obviously their main currency, but it's isolating them needlessly.

I'm excited to be getting in to the game and for all the hobby possibilities it entails.

All I know is I am a little miffed at the lack of Marauder or Minuteman boxes.

Couldn't disagree more. I haven't been this passionate about a game in years and it has reignited my love for tabletop wargaming since I stopped playing 40k [for obvious reasons]. I can't comment on the growth of Infinity other than anecdotal stuff, but I played a league game last night, then spent 30 minutes talking about the lovely models and different tactics with a few of the other blokes from the club, who were just as passionate as me, and all owned multiple armies. A friend of mine who sold off most of his 40k stuff and began to drop out of gaming is now totally hooked and back in the hobby.

In response to some of the other issues mentioned, scale creep just doesn't bother me, and I often deliberately buy some of the older sculpts for that old school feel. ITS isn't perfect, but it is a damn sight better than lots of other games, which end up being a shootout to win based upon who rolls the better dice. I haven't encountered any rules problems with fireteams, they're there in black and white on the Wiki. Granting exclusives is a brilliant idea IMO, and supports those people growing the game, such as Guerilla Miniature Games, and directs traffic their way, helping them to expand as well. Finally, I would rather wait for Human Sphere N3 and it be a quality offering rather than it be rushed.

Overall, CB are still seeing a lot of growth, so presumably anyone seeing a downturn is seeing a local effect.

As far as lack of news is concerned, without having asked CB directly, my guess would be that this is due to the way we fans tend to take things out of context.

tyrannosaurus wrote:Couldn't disagree more. I haven't been this passionate about a game in years and it has reignited my love for tabletop wargaming since I stopped playing 40k [for obvious reasons]. [snip]

We feel pretty much the same. I have been collecting Infinity minis since day one and played a bit during N2, but it was hard to get to the people already oversaturated with other games coming out at the same time. The anime look did not help with the older crowd.

What turned the day was the starter set with which I could finally persuade other guys with too many games at hand to "Lets just open the box and go through the scenarios and then you decide if you like it or not". And so far, everyone has loved it!

And yes, the starter set is not perfect. And yes, the way they handled the rules update was -and still remains "spanish". And no, I do not understand why existing units get a rehash while we are still waiting for units to be produced as miniatures at all. Scale creep not such a big thing for me, it is a skirmisher, after all.

Also, all these things are only really important to people who have accompanied this game for a very long time. Like Kan. But where Kan has a weakness-oriented outlook (making him an excellent controller), other people tend to have a strength-oriented perspective (making them more suitable for management).

New players have no beef with CB for their "continued failings" and the worst thing that happens is that they are confused about missing or misrepresented rules (starter set vs. N3 full).

All in all, I would say Infinity activity has risen a lot around here. And CB is just back to normal "working behind the scenes" after they upped their promo game considerably to market N3.

Are you sure we are not talking about "old men's fatigue" here?

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Couldn't disagree more. I haven't been this passionate about a game in years and it has reignited my love for tabletop wargaming since I stopped playing 40k [for obvious reasons]. I can't comment on the growth of Infinity other than anecdotal stuff, but I played a league game last night, then spent 30 minutes talking about the lovely models and different tactics with a few of the other blokes from the club, who were just as passionate as me, and all owned multiple armies. A friend of mine who sold off most of his 40k stuff and began to drop out of gaming is now totally hooked and back in the hobby.

In response to some of the other issues mentioned, scale creep just doesn't bother me, and I often deliberately buy some of the older sculpts for that old school feel. ITS isn't perfect, but it is a damn sight better than lots of other games, which end up being a shootout to win based upon who rolls the better dice. I haven't encountered any rules problems with fireteams, they're there in black and white on the Wiki. Granting exclusives is a brilliant idea IMO, and supports those people growing the game, such as Guerilla Miniature Games, and directs traffic their way, helping them to expand as well. Finally, I would rather wait for Human Sphere N3 and it be a quality offering rather than it be rushed.

I literally couldn't agree more with this post, the only thing I feel like people are bitching too much about is the scale creep, it's waaaay blown out of proportion and people act like the models are Imperial Knigths that stands next to a space marine. Yes, the Wildcat looks small, get over it, the rest really isn't that criminally bad.

 Zewrath wrote:

I literally couldn't agree more with this post, the only thing I feel like people are bitching too much about is the scale creep, it's waaaay blown out of proportion and people act like the models are Imperial Knigths that stands next to a space marine. Yes, the Wildcat looks small, get over it, the rest really isn't that criminally bad.

The Wildcats look small, the Hellcats look small, the Intruder with Combi-Rifle and MSR look small.

What you fail to grasp, or just flatout ignore in your haste to complain about "people bitching too much"?
Corregidor was in the midst of a redesign. All those small models? They are NOT going to get replaced anytime soon, and quite frankly it shows the "Spanish" side of Corvus Belli that treslibras is talking about. Spanish companies seem to take a very "whatever" look at these kinds of issues, and putting it bluntly?

They KNEW that they were doing the Alguaciles, Mobile Brigada, and other Corregidor models in CAD for Icestorm. The CAD process started when they finished the CJC dossiers from what I have been told. And rather than delaying/redoing the Corregidor releases to ensure consistency or doing other things like we saw with various other factions, they shoveled them out the door ASAP so that they could fulfill an imaginary deadline that they set themselves.

So yeah. You're welcome to think that people are "blowing it out of proportion", but I can tell you right now that they would NOT have gotten any of my money for the Corregidor starter sets I bought(2x CJC starters) or the associated purchases(2x MSR Intruders, Hellcats with HMG/Hacker x2, Hellcat with Boarding Shotgun x2, Geckos box x2, Iguana, Nomad Support Pack) if I had known that they were going CAD--because the differences are a hell of a lot more in person than you or others online make it out to be. It's especially notable to someone who prefers to spend time painting their models to a display quality rather than just "paint to play on tabletop".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
Kan - I am not a fan of the Scale Creep either, though I suppose I know 'why' they did it?

The problem is that while I can understand why they did it(they wanted more surface area for players to feel less intimidated by the fine detail of the models), I can entirely fault them for not applying that Scale Leap to Corregidor.

I have been playing 40k and other games for well over 16 years now. I had looked at infinity in the past but it looked over complicated and the models were just ok.

I have noticed that as of the last two years the quality of the sculpts and realism has increased exponentially. With rising costs elsewhere, great models, a variety of factions, decent fluff, etc, Infinity is very appealing to gamers. I personally think that the N3 physical rulebook along with the icestorm starter and recent usariadna starter has made it very easy for anyone to get into Infinity.

I dove in and found the rules are easy to understand, no longer seem overcomplicated, and have found the community to be one of the friendliest and nicest out there.

Personally I have only seen Infinity grow at an exponential rate around here. 40k on the other hand... well the tourney scene is pretty much dead!

N3 exploded in popularity, and has only grown the Infinity brand.

Complaints about model scale? I say cry me a river. The new models continue to look great, and I've been collecting three factions back since pre-Human Sphere N2. Including three generations of basic PanO Infantry and HI.

They're only looking better. The sole issues with scale are localized to a handful of models, many are likely to get resculpts (such as the entire Morat line), and so far all resculpts have been executed great.

The 'bugs' of edition transition were mostly handled by the FAQ, and HS3 will solve the rest.

I certainly hope so!

CB seems to have been rather quiet for the last half year or so.

I hope this just means they're really busy!

 Killionaire wrote:
N3 exploded in popularity, and has only grown the Infinity brand.

Complaints about model scale? I say cry me a river. The new models continue to look great, and I've been collecting three factions back since pre-Human Sphere N2. Including three generations of basic PanO Infantry and HI.

They're only looking better. The sole issues with scale are localized to a handful of models, many are likely to get resculpts (such as the entire Morat line), and so far all resculpts have been executed great.

And this is just the perfect example of not comprehending what the complaints about scale actually are about.

Virtually none of the complaints from myself or others were because of the resculpts/"revisions" being out of parity to the older models. We've known that Morats were being redone for a long while, and more importantly? They maintained a consistent scale throughout the redesign of the Morat line. That's not what happened with Corregidor, which is basically the only line that the "scale leap" notation applies to. Corregidor was being redesigned prior to Icestorm and was almost finished to boot, with a consistent scale being present throughout pre-Icestorm Corregidor models.

Then Icestorm hit and shot it to hell.

So please, if you want to make comments about people "complaining about model scale"? Get a basic understanding of the complaints that surround it.

 Killionaire wrote:
N3 exploded in popularity, and has only grown the Infinity brand.

Complaints about model scale? I say cry me a river. The new models continue to look great, and I've been collecting three factions back since pre-Human Sphere N2. Including three generations of basic PanO Infantry and HI.

They're only looking better. The sole issues with scale are localized to a handful of models, many are likely to get resculpts (such as the entire Morat fine), and so far all resculpts have been executed great.

The 'bugs' of edition transition were mostly handled by the FAQ, and HS3 will solve the rest.

That would be how most see the model scale. Except for a few that being it up ever chance they get. It not like a dead thread was start by the most vocal, but people really did not care enough to keep harping on it. Even the Infinity forum and Datasphere only has a few that keep on about the scale, that always start with the same people.

Infinity sells prove it not a real issue, even less on the board.

To piggyback on what Noir is saying - the scale creep doesn't really bother me. If it did bother me, I'd just buy the new models - problem solved.

The important thing about N3 is that it's a tight rules set that doesn't favor or discourage using older models since everything has a silhouette value. I'd rather have a solid set of rules, continuous revision of the line, and a little bit of scale creep than a game with atrocious rules, sporadic revision, and more or less consistent scale for a decade at a time (i.e., 40k).

In terms of Infinity stagnating due to N3, I haven't found that to be the case. There are a bunch of new people always arriving to play Infinity at my friendly local while 40k play has decreased. Given a sample size of one, I bought a new Infinity army a couple of days ago to try it out, whereas I really have zero interest in purchasing a new 40k army ever again unless there are significant rules changes across the board.

Yeah, that's a great option.

Let me rebuy an entire army because Corvus Belli couldn't be bothered to keep a consistent scale with a flagship range in the form of Corregidor.

Just to reiterate:
Corvus Belli KNEW that they were revamping Corregidor. They started doing so with the Campaign: Paradiso book. They made it abundantly clear that the reason we were getting Wildcats in the CJC starter box rather than Alguaciles was because they had plans to redo the main Nomad starter and they stated that pretty publicly over a year and a half in advance of Icestorm's release--which, spoiler alert, is(according to them) when they started messing with the computer-assisted designs for the Icestorm models. There is a reason I am so militant about this, as I was assured when the CJC starter came out that the Corregidor range was "futureproofed" and that they were CAD sculpts that would be worked from for other Corregidor models.

I bought in heavy for Corregidor on the basis of that assurance, as it was from someone whom I knew was working on the line and had a significant insight as to what was coming.

Put that on top of the "N3 will have everything you need to play right away!" nonsense and I think it should be rather clear why I have this specific axe to grind where a 300+ point collection of models gets literally screwed overnight by the fact that they would rather have put that CJC box and the accompanying models(Wildcat with Spitfire, HRL, Hellcat with HMG/Hacker double blister, Hellcat with Boarding Shotgun, Intruder with MSR) out ASAP than hold them back and explain that they were being redone to fit in with the forthcoming range.

So please. If you want to comment on the scale issue? Realize that not everyone buys models strictly for playing, and that for some people the overnight scale shift in Corregidor was a huge deal, effectively making it so that for anyone who wants to keep a consistent scale in their force cannot even do so with the range available now.

You're acting as if peoples' opinions on the scale issue are only valid if they have a problem with the scale changes.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
You're acting as if peoples' opinions on the scale issue are only valid if they have a problem with the scale changes.

I'm not the one saying that people are "bitching" or "whining" or that they should "get over it", now am I Nuggz?

Filter the thread. You'll never once see that I've told someone that their opinions aren't valid. I've tried to correct some misinformation that's out there, namely that this is some kind of widespread thing like there is a group of players complaining about the resculpts of older models.

That's not the case. It is almost entirely restricted to people who bought into Corregidor heavily only to see the massive scale shift that happened with, literally, the release of one boxed set.

Because repeating it over and over saying you guy just don't get it, in ever thread you can will make people think it a huge game ending problem. We get it you feel like they bent you over and went to town. But, as your scale creep thread proved, other then a few vocal people no one really cares about scale creep.

It was the "...if you want to comment on the scale issue..." part that struck me as dismissive of dissenting opinion.

Nobody is happy about it per se, I just don't see it negatively impacting my life. Except the change in scale of the Azra'il...that's got to be the worst scale change in the history of miniatures companies.

I honestly don't even feel comfortable fielding this guy as an Azra'il. I use him as a Janissary HMG or Fassed.

Fun fact: the original Az'rail was NEVER meant to be that small.

Scale doesn't really change a models purpose in a game. The old models or new models... use whatever you have! I can see why some would be upset if they spent a lot of cash only to have their army updated... hmmm.... sounds like what gw has done to many of us in the past. If it bothers some that much I would suggest this - just boycott the game and not buy it. Otherwise if you feel that strongly and still buy it, you are in essence supporting it.

It obviously doesn't bother the majority as I rarely hear the scale issue being brought up, and only a select few beat that bush to death.

I personally like the new models due to their sculpt quality and scale.

Bringing up the 2008 and 2015 Azrael is NOT an argument that Scale change is bad. It's actually arguing that SCALE CHANGE IS GOOD.

Why?

The old Azrael was DEFECTIVE. Seriously, it was a defective model. Pretty, but utterly smaller than my unarmored light infantry! This also applies to several other models, such as the Keisotsu, who are a full head shorter than non-japanese soldiers, and the Shang-Ji. Meanwhile, Female Orc Boarding Shotgun remains a 7-foot tall woman.

Corregidor was a special case. Namely, that while some models were reasonably to-scale, the Wildcats were never to scale, even compared with equivilent troops of older scale such as Bagh-Mari.

The fault then, is not the new troops. It's rather several old ones were too tiny compared to the average!

----

As for rules, well. ITS aside, nearly every aspect of N3 is a substantial improvement

According to Bostria, the Azra'il is correcting a mistake. It wasn't meant to be that small originally. The sculptor got it wrong. It probably wouldn't have been as big as it is now as CB didn't do super heavy infantry then, but it was definitely too small.

A better example would have been the Jannisarys, which they did a new scale for with the CAD designed HMG, then rescaled it 6 months later with the box release.