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I was just reading an article about how to get the most bang for your buck out of psykers, and I got to thinking about how the psychic phase has been a mess since... well pretty much always (For me, always means "3rd edition", since that's when I started)! It occurred to me that 40k of old and 40k of new both have the same problem; like the most of 40k, psychic powers are bsaed on a pass/fail system.

What do I mean by pass/fail? Quite simply, the result of an attempt at psychic powers results in either the power successfully going off (a "pass"), or the power does not successfully go off (a "fail") result. When you shoot a bolter, you either hit or miss, you either wound or don't wound, and they either pass their armour test or fail their armour test. It's easy when thinking about 40k to introduce additional layers of pass/fail, or do things that modify existing layers. Most games out there get caught up in pass/fail mechanics as well, since they're the most easily understood.

But there are games out there which look beyond pass/fail! I just got into the game Forbidden Stars (a 40k board game no-less!), that uses a fantastic dice mechanic that is not at all pass/fail. Instead of having numbers, these d3's have 3 kinds of symbols; "Guns", "Shields", and "Morale". Whether a player will successfully invade or defend during combat in this game is based on how these three interact. You need more guns than shields to start damaging enemies, but if after 3 rounds you haven't wiped them out, whomever has the most Morale wins instead. When you roll the dice, you're not so much determining who wins as much as you're determining how the battle is going to progress. Are you going to try and wipe them out? Grind them down? Or just out-last them?

Perhaps psychics in 40k should follow a similar model. We hear that harnessing the warp is a dangerous thing, but that doesn't often carry through unless you're talking about Perils of the Warp. Additionally, you're often punished for going in with just a couple psykers, as you'll either get off too few powers just from trying to harness warp charge, or your opponent will have so much psychic charge that they immediately shut you down. A system not based on pass/fail could get around this by opening the question of "how do you get it off" as opposed to "did it go off or not"?


Here's one possible method of doing such a system:

Assumption: Players purchase "Psychic Dice" for 40k. (Let's assume this to be the case, because GW likes making money, and even if players come up with their own systems of getting around this, having a product out there will make money.)

Assumption: Current Psyker Mastery Levels must be used to try and reduce amount of FAQ's required at launch. (Again, GW likes making money, not spending it.)

Concept: When a psyker tries to harness the warp, two questions need to be answered.
#1 - How well did the psyker harness the warp? (Really Good/Good/Bad/Really Bad)
#2 - How well was the enemy able to resist or deny the psychic power? (Really Good/Good/Bad/Really Bad)
This will result in up to 10 possible combinations of outcomes.

Description - Psychic Dice: These 6-sided dice have four outcomes; Scrolls (2 of the 6 sides), Eyes (2 of the 6 sides), Blanks (1 of the 6 sides) and Demons (1 of the 6 sides).

Execution:

At the beginning of the Psychic Phase, the active player rolls a d6. Each player sets aside that many Psychic Dice to be used in addition to the Psychic Dice generated by their psykers.

During the Psychic Phase, the active player chooses a Character model with the Psyker unit type that isn't part of a Brotherhood of Psykers, or chooses a unit that is a Brotherhood of Psykers, in order to have that model or unit attempt to manfest a single psychic power that they know.

When a Psyker or Brotherhood of Psykers attempts to manifest a Psychic Power, they first choose the power the will attempt to manifest from the list of psychic powers they know. They then proceed to select targets for the psychic power, using the Psyker model or the Brotherhood of Psykers unit as the origin point of the power. The unit then adds a number of Psychic Dice to their hand equal to the Psyker or Brotherhood of Psyker's current Mastery Level, adding any number of the Psychic Dice previously set to the side. They then roll those dice.

Scrolls represents how successful your spell is. You must roll a number of Scrolls equal to the psychic power's Mastery Level in order to successfully manifest it. If you rolled at least 3 more Scrolls than you required and at least 3 more Scrolls than Demons, you may choose the results of any dice rolled, so long as those dice are not shots resolved as part of the shooting resulting from successfully manifesting a Witchfire power. (Example: If you fired D6 shots with a strength of D6 and an AP of D6, you could choose to shoot 6 S6 AP1 shots. You could not choose whether those shots hit or miss.)

Demons represents how dangerous the spell was to manifest. If you have a number of Demons equal to or greater than your number of Scrolls, you suffer a Perils of the Warp. Note, a Psyker can both successfully Manifest a power, and still suffer a Perils of the Warp result.

Eyes represents how much strain this put on the Psyker. After rolling any Eyes, the Psyker or Brotherhood of Psykers unit may roll a Focus Test, with a penalty to the roll equal to the number of Eyes. If the Warp Charage necessary to manifest the psychic power exceeds the Psyker or Brotherhood of Psyker unit's Mastery Level, they suffer an additional penalty equal to the difference between their Mastery Level and the psychic power's Warp Charge cost. The Focus Test is made using the Psyker or Brotherhood of Psyker's leadership characteristic. If the Leadership Test is passed, convert all the Eyes to Scrolls. If failed, convert all the Eyes to Demons.

Blanks represent the inability to harness the Warp.


An opponent with a Psyker model or Brotherhood of Psykers unit within 6" of either the target of the Psychic Power or its point of origin can attempt to Complicate, Counter, or Curse your Psychic Power after the Psychic Dice have been rolled, but before the decision to attempt a Focus Test is made. To do so, that model or unit's controller rolls a number of Psychic Dice equal to the Mastery Level of the Psyker or Brotherhood of Psykers, adding up to any number of Psychic Dice they put off to the side.

That player then decides whether they will attempt to Complicate, Counter, or Curse the psychic power.

- If your opponent attempts to Complicate the psychic power, they add their Eyes to the number of Eyes you rolled.

- If they attempt to Counter the psychic power, they total up the number of Scrolls they rolled. If they rolled more Scrolls than you did, the power is Countered and is not manifested.

- If they attempt to Curse the psychic power, they add their Demons to the number of Demons you rolled.

A Psyker or Brotherhood of Psykers may only be selected once per turn to Complicate, Counter, or Curse an enemy Psychic Power.


Once a Psyker or Brotherhood of Psykers has finished attempting to manifest a psychic power, another Psyker or Brotherhood of Psykers may attempt to manifest a psychic power. A Psyker or Brotherhood of Psykers may only attempt to manifest a single psychic power each turn.

Further Concepts: Obviously there still needs to be a description of the different kinds of psychic powers in this, as well as what happens during a Perils of the Warp (I'm assuming it's never going to be a good result, and the number of Demons rolled will determine the result instead of rolling again).

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So, what do you think? Does this sound better than the current system? Does this feel more dynamic and more evocative than the current system? Or is it too complicated and would slow the game too much? I did try to limit this to having Psykers only being able to cast a single power. The system makes it easier to cast many smaller powers, benefits having a high Leadership for those Focus dice, and helps prevent psychic-dominating armies from easily quashing your own psychic powers while still providing lots of interaction for when they do get involved. EDIT: This also makes the purchase of additional Mastery Levels something worth considering. You get more choice of powers, and can more reliably cast powers, but you can't cast any extra powers either, and you need to be appropriately positioned to try and mess up an opponent's psychic powers.

Too complicated, really. The idea is very good, you may try to make the process more simple.

If the game was only about Psykers and nothing else, it would be awesome.

But since there is other phases and things to do before the end of the turn, this is to convoluted.

I really do hear how it's convoluted. I think the Scrolls, Eyes, Blanks, and Demons results are the most important mechanic, and aren't very complex. I also think you need to generate the d6 extra charges. As it stands, a Mastery Level 1 Psyker with Ld 10 casting a Mastery Level 1 power without using any extra dice has the following possibilities:

Overwhelming Force (max-dice): 0% (impossible to score 3 more scrolls than demons and warp cost)
Success: 61% (requires 1 scroll, or 1 eye converted to a scroll)
No Effect: 17% (requires 1 blank)
Perils of the Warp: 22% (requires 1 demon or 1 eye converted to a demon) OR 17% (as you can choose not to do a Focus test, and this would then be a blank)

Contrasted to the current system, a single psyker using a single Warp Charge has the following possibilities:

Overwhelming Force: 0% (can't happen)
Success: 50% (4+ to harness)
No Effect: 50% (3 or less fails to harness)
Perils of the Warp: 0% (can't happen)


I like my system better for this, as the chance of Perils still exists even on single-warp charge powers (and throwing a single extra charge actually decreases your chances of Perils, but too many increases it), but you also more frequently get those single-charge powers off. I just feel like the dynamic is better.

Where the system hurts itself is with the current "dispel" system. Even then, though, it makes this feel more like a phase of the game due to caring about positioning just a little more.

Ultimately, I think this would take only slightly longer than the current version, and that the extra feel behind it would be better. I'm going to challenge a friend to use this system in an upcoming game to get some real experience with it. I'll let you know how it turns out!

Rewrote the Psyker system for Forgehammer:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/666981.page

Summary:
-6 core Psyker Disciplines, some armies have specialized Disciplines.
-A Psyker knows 2 powers for every Mastery Level, and has 2 Warp Charge for every Mastery Level.
-Psychic Powers are chosen at *army* creation, rather than before the battle.
-All Psyker Disciplines have 4 Basic Powers and 2 Advanced Powers.
-For each Advanced Power you want to learn, you must know 2 Basic Powers from that same discipline.

-Manifesting is like standard 7th edition, with the following exceptions:
1) A Psyker can *only* use its own innate Warp Charge.
2) Rolls of 4+ are considered successful Warp Charge Dice for Basic Powers; rolls of 5+ are considered successful for Advanced Powers.
3) Perils is on multiples of 1.
4) A Psyker may attempt to "Push" when attempting to Manifest. This gives the Psyker a "free" die when attempting to Manifest, but if this die matches with *any* of the other dice rolled, the Psyker suffers Perils.
5) Deny the Witch is on a roll of 4+ by default, and Psykers within range of a manifested power can contribute their own Warp Charge to attempt to deny it.
6) All Psyker Powers have degrees of success; a power can effectively have up to 4 levels of success. The degree of success of a power is determined *after* rolling to Deny.

Example: Librarian Ignus of the Fire Angels casts Scouring Flame on a unit of enemy Chaos Terminators and scores 3 successes. Scouring Flame is normally Strength 5, AP 4, but gains +1 Strength and -1 AP for every success beyond the first, so Scouring Flame becomes an effective Strength 7 AP 2. The Chaos Terminators are lead by Sorcerer Sindri, who rolls to Deny the Witch and scores 1 success, meaning Scouring Flame is now effectively resolved as a S6 AP 3 attack.

My main issues with the 7th ed Psyker System were related to conservation of Psyker Ninjitsu. As the number of Psykers increased, the amount of Warp Charge available to go around for individual Psykers becomes more spread thin (One WC/ML level is not enough to cast a basic blessing in most cases), thus making it a system where numerous auxiliary casters are effectively batteries for one primary to cast "go-big" powers like summons or Invisibility (Like a 6e Eldar/Nid list I wrote awhile back that used Dakka Flyrants as WC batteries for a Mantle Farseer to summon Daemons...).

Give individual Psykers more WC to play with, make the powers less "all-or-nothing", and make the Psykers themselves useful rather than auxiliary WC batteries. Oh, and non-randomized powers.

I kinda wish they'd either go back to the old Leadership tests OR import the system from WHFB, especially since the latter doesn't exist anymore. The WHFB version was a lot better.

I'd prefer the leadership test as well, was a lot quicker and cleaner than the warp charge system we have now.

Magic Juggler, I like your system a lot. I agree wholeheartedly that each Psyker should matter for their own powers. What we have now feels way too much like ever list fielding multiple Psykers is just a brotherhood of Psykers with more options.

I like the idea of only being able to use their own dice. Perhaps a shared d6 across the army.

I'd much prefer they had just imported the WHFB version, though.

Just did a very small example for a friend, and it felt really good and intuitive, even though we just used regular d6's (1=Demons, 2=Blank, 3-4=Eyes, 5-6=Scrolls). If you're not close to enemy psykers, it's only a hair longer than normal,. Since you can't cast multiple powers off a single psyker, the time spent deciding how many dice for which powers was just as long as resolving this, so I don't think a time thing is an issue. Also, the system was pretty intuitive. Go for Scrolls, avoid Demons, and Eyes can go either way. When you add in an enemy psyker nearby, it gets a lot more complicated, but then it feels like I'm actively involved in the dispelling process rather than just praying for 6's.

Still, that was just doing it as an example for a person, not a full-out game, which I will be doing this Sunday.

In prep for that game, I'm going to need to make a few additions, so I'm now just using this as a workspace;

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Perils of the Warp:
If you roll more Demons than Scrolls, your Psyker or Brotherhood of Psykers suffers Perils of the Warp. The Psyker's controller may choose to either lose a Mastery Level, or lose a wound with no save of any kind allowed (including Invulnerable saves or effects like Feel No Pain). If the Psyker loses a Mastery Level, the Psyker's controller loses one random Psychic Power known to the Psyker. Repeat this process for each Demon in excess of your Scrolls that you rolled.

Force Weapons:
Force Weapons are powerful relics that are able to channel the psychic might of their bearers. Whenever a Psyker wielding a Force Weapon inflicts one or more unsaved wounds, that Psyker's controller may make an immediate Psychic Test using their Mastery Level just as if they were attempting to manifest a Warp Charge 1 psychic power (including giving your opponent the chance to Counter, Complicate, or Curse the Psychic Test as normal). If the power is successfully manifested, all wounds caused by the Psyker's weapon this turn have the Instant Death special rule. If a Brotherhood of Psykers passes this test, all Force Weapons for models that are part of the Brotherhood of Psykers gain the Instant Death special rule until the end of the turn.

Misc Errata & FAQ:
Psychic Hood: A Space Marine Librarian with a Psychic Hood or some other way of increasing the range that they can fight off enemy Psykers can Counter, Complicate, or Curse an enemy Psychic Test if they are within 12" of the enemy Psyker or the unit they're targeting, instead of 6".

Librarius Conclave/Seer Council: A unit that is able to harness Warp Charge on a roll of 3+ instead of the usual 4+ can automatically change 1 Eyes result to a Scrolls result when rolling a Psychic Test before immediately before rolling a Focus Test.

Runes of Witnessing: A unit that is able to reroll Warp Charge may do so with Psychic Dice after the dice have been rolled, but before any attempt to Counter, Complicate, or Curse has been made.

Adamantium Will: A unit with at least one model with Adamantium Will that is targeted by an enemy Psychic Power adds an additional Psychic Die whenever you roll to Counter, Complicate, or Curse that power. Other effects that add bonuses to attempts to Resist the Witch work similarly, granting additional Psychic Dice equal to bonus on the roll.

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Useful Notes:

#1 - Having lots of units with Adamantium Will makes getting Nova powers off much more difficult, as each unit with Adamantium Will that is targeted will add the additional Psychic Dice to your attempts against the power.

#2 - The Tyranid's Shadow in the Warp ability to subtract 3 from your Leadership when near them makes relying on your Psyker's abilities to Focus much more challenging!

#3 - You never are required to roll a Focus Test. If an opponent tries to Complicate a power you've already passed with, you don't need to roll a Focus Test at all!

A couple issues.

1) Armies without psykers are incapable of of "denying the witch". An army like Necrons would be incapable of doing anything and wargear like the shadowloams that normally allow you to deny on a 5+ instead of 6+ are useless if you have no psykers to deny with.

The system needs to account for non caster units resisting warp based powers.

2) Reducing mastery levels instead of wounds is extra book keeping. I would avoid that.

Also instead of the denying player choosing between 3 ways tocancle the power I would have them roll and have the stress and demons get added to your pool with scrolls canceling scrolls.

This way they have a 1/3 chance to negate your power 1/3 to boost or cancel it (while making it harder to boost) and a 1 in 6 of increasing perils.