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Alright, so I've been playing for just over a decade now, and I've been crafting what I hope is a decent local tournament list of Skitarii and Imperial Guard. Against my friends the list is pulling a 70-80% win rate, but now the Wulfen are here. My friend has always played a blitz attack drop pod heavy army, but now he's running 9 free drop pods, which all deploy first turn thanks to formation rules, with Wulfen and Thunderwolf Calvary reaching nearly my table edge first turn. This totally stops any mobility I have, and forces me to kill his entire army in order to move up to take objectives. Without picking up a new army, though I'd love to know how they deal with it, how can I tackle a 2000 point army showing up at my doorstep that quickly?

As skitarii, you can ally in a flesh tearers list to give yourself drop pods and shoot for going second. That'll help you counter deploy his army.

im confused; are the TWC and Wulfen in the pods or just moving them and hopping for run+charge buff for the TWC?

He's deploying two squads of wulfen with the TWC. Then he almost always rolls the additional movement speed buff on the wulfen chart. Letting the TWC move an additional 6 inches at least. If I deploy anywhere but the far edge, with the additional 3" assault, he usually locks up one squad, which lets him counter charge my army during my turn with the drop podded units and wulfen.

If his entire strategy hinges on going first, he'll eventually get tired of it once he doesn't go first for a long enough stretch.

Right, I've played against the new list once, and I assume that if I get first turn, the thunderwolf and wulfen are dead. But with seize the initiative I could totally lose myself the game deploying forward to kill them. But I'm hoping for a strat to take them down with first turn, so I can pull consistent win rates again.

I played against Wulfen in my last game.

I just shot them. As Harlequins. They're only T4 with 4+ or 3++ saves, pretty much anything kills them.

the_scotsman wrote:
I played against Wulfen in my last game.

I just shot them. As Harlequins. They're only T4 with 4+ or 3++ saves, pretty much anything kills them.

The Wulfen themselves aren't the scary part. It's that in their murderpack formation they give the ability for thunderwolves to get 38+ inch charges. So if you kill the wulfen you still need to deal with the thunderwolves.

But that's kind of a death star approach so if you have the option to spread out or rapidly redeploy you can counter it to some extent. They also have nothing against flyers.

Silver bullets?

Yeah Ive noticed he has no anti-air, hes running two long fang squads with lascannons so snapshots would tickle slightly. The downside is with guard and skitarii my fliers are ungodly expensive. I stopped running vendettas a year ago because other fliers either put them to shame or cost so little to be effective. I wanted to try the valkyrie formation and stick my vanguard in them. But it would be a huge dent in my list to run them.

The wulfen (assuming he runs them naked) are going to eat up a lot of points. So I am guessing his blackmanes great company isn't super beefy.
You said 9 pods, blackmanes requires
3 BC pods
4 GH pods
1 long fang pod
1 vet unit (TWC)
Scouts

So for cheap pod units I am guessing he has 2 more pods with 5 BC in them. Then his WGBL with the TWC hanging back with the wulfen.

I run blackmanes legendary greatpack, but I only have like, 5 pods. I also run TWC, but I don't have enough wulfen for these shenanigans. In both games I have given my opponent first turn. I don't run my TWC will all storm shields, but I know a lot of people do. Anyway... I've had entire armies unload at my TWC and only kill 2. going second means you can hide them in ruins, or out of line of sight pretty easily (assuming you play with that, then with night fight, you have a +3 cover save). Next turn 9 drop pods are going to come down and bring a buttload of bolter fire with them.

Look into the FW fliers, an avenger strike fighter would be pretty terrifying to a marine army without any AA. His army also wont have any psykers, so you would be unchallenged in the psychic phase to do whatever you want.

Daemon summon using the psykana division or whatever it's called?

Stubborn or fearless full sized platoon. Tarpit THE TWC and dakka the wulfen to death. As for the pods...veterans with FRFSRF? Probably of the plasma variety? OR you could run full sized platoons that are stubborn /fearless. If he doesn't have room to deploy his pods he can't bring them in. If he hits terrain, he mishaps. And statistically even two units of wulfen and TWC are unlikely to kill 120+ guardsmen when acting without the drop pods that can't come in. OR a tarpit the TWC and run a knight or two to go Michael Flatly on the wulfen and battle Cannon the drop podded squads.

Drop pods only mishap if they go off the table. They just stop when they hit enemy units or impassable terrain.

But if they can't land anywhere their not exactly useful. That, and you can always leave small holes in the blob to allow the pods to be placed but not the models within, meaning that the guys inside dies since they can't get out .

Yeah, but a single 120 blob is a terrible idea. First, they can all land outside your deployment zone and literally line your zone with pods that the 120 dudes cannot hurt. The slower the giant blob moves, the slower the army moves. In maelstrom, this will be terrible.

Even 1 models with a toe in cover means the whole unit is slowed down. Pending on the location, I would throw my TWC into the blob. The guard would be hitting on 4s, wounding on 6s and only a slew would be able to swing after they pile in due to how many the TWC kill. Plus, then then rest of the AM army cannot move anywhere through that blob, leaving 9 pods of dudes to do whatever they want. melta tanks, take objectives, whatever.

I've left the drop pod holes, but I think its poor sportsmanship not to alert my opponent to the 1 inch rule before the game happens. I play Renegades and heretics, so its not uncommon for me to have upwards of 150 infantry on the table. Drop pods have scattered into areas where they can land but no one can get out, but I have never had someone intentionally put one in one of the traps.

S8 AP4. Or, if they have stormshields, S8 anything. The more time goes on the better and better that typhoon launcher looks on the Stormraven.

Dantes_Baals wrote:
Stubborn or fearless full sized platoon. Tarpit THE TWC

That isn't going to work. TWC have enough attacks that almost any amount of guardsmen aren't going to tarpit them.

All good ideas, just so you have some context I'll post what I can remember of his army.

He had a 50/50 split of bloodclaws and grey hunters. Each grey hunter squad had a rune priest. Each squad had either a melta or flamer
He ran blackmane with a squad in a pod
Then two squads of longfangs with lascannons deployed on the field
Two wulfen squads
And one TWC squad


My list right at this moment is
Pask w/ Vanquisher
Executioner

Infantry Platoon
Lascannon Team
Flakk Team

Vet Squad 2x Meltas

2x Wyvern

4x Skitarii Vanguard w/ rad carbines

1x minimum squad Ruststalkers

3x Onager Dunecrawler
2x Icarus Array
1x Neutron Laser



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And I am inclined to disagree with an infantry blob. Merely because scattering his deployment still screws me. If I deploy mid field with a huge blob, his TWC nab the squad first turn, then he can counter charge every unit he deepstrikes into assault during my turn. That squad is toast on my assault phase then he gets to charge the rest of my army next turn.

I really hope that the icarius and the neutron is seperate with the onagers, and not in the same squad. Really, the added invuln saves are nice when they stack but you want to spread the love of the onager. Did you consider switching 1 of the icarius arrays to an onager at least?

They are not, although im thinking of dropping 1 in favor of doing the new start collecting formation

If you've got an infantry platoon you may as well get some conscripts. 40 with a priest is 145pts, and you can guarantee it will disproportionately tie up a wulfen or TWC unit for its cost. They put out a decent amount of firepower for their points too.

Wyverns are also the way forward for killing any and all ground based things! They'll reliably deal damage to wulfen + TWC wherever they are on the table.

SplinteredShield wrote:
They are not, although im thinking of dropping 1 in favor of doing the new start collecting formation

Maybe that would work, but another neutron should be good too. I know I'm a fanboy for those things but they should be able to kill at least 1 TWC a turn, as that str10 should kill one on a failed save. Hell you may be even to cover 2 with the small blast.

Ive never really seen neutron lasers do as much as Id like. And to be fair I'm trying to keep as well rounded a list as I can for tourney play. Obviously Id drop both of the icarus with no flyers and the flakk team. Im thinking now of
6 vanguard squads
2 avenger strike fighters
And 2 vet squads w meltas
Instead of the platoon platforms and onager


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In hoping the sheer wounds will drop them right as they reach me

The problem with the drop formation is easily remidieswith servo-skulls from a bare inquisitorial detachment. You'd be in much bigger trouble if this turned into a Iron-wolves Great Company. (Rhinos and Razors.)