Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello, pretty new to the hobby, ive been able to practice a few matches by lending an friend's necron army, and now im looking to buy my own army. Im trying to build a versatile list that can handle most things, since at the local club we pretty much have people playing everything, including eldar with wraithknight, tau with riptide and stormsurge, necrons and space marines etc. The club also uses a table with a good amount of terrain and buildings, which ive seen the eldar player use to good effect, especially with his warp spiders and war-walkers.

This is what ive managed to come up with:


------------
-HQ- (435 pts)
------------

Leman Russ Punisher (140 pts)
+ Knight Commander Pask (70 pts)
+ Sponson Multi-Melta (20 pts)
+ Lascannon (10 pts)

Leman Russ Executioner (155 pts)
+ Lascannon (10 pts)
+ Sponson Plasma Cannons (30 pts)

------------
-Troops- (435 pts)
------------

10 Veterans (60 pts)
+ 2x Meltaguns (10x2 pts)
+ Chimera(Multilaser, Heavy Flamer) (65 pts)


10 Veterans (60 pts)
+ 2x Meltaguns (10x2 pts)
+ Chimera(Multilaser, Heavy Flamer) (65 pts)

10 Veterans (60 pts)
+ 2x Meltaguns (10x2 pts)
+ Chimera(Multilaser, Heavy Flamer) (65 pts)

------------
-Heavy Support- (130 pts)
------------

Wyvern Battery (65 pts)
+ Wyvern (65 pts)

Critique and tips would be extremely helpful, since i wan't to make my starting army as good as possible, and i won't be able to switch out units since theese will be my first ones i will own.

Edit: 1000 pts exactly, for the emperor!

If your club is heavy on the eldar and tau cheese, playing guard isn't going to be fun. Seriously, Eldar, Tau, Necron and Marines is basically only missing Daemons for the playable armies at the competitive levels (which it sounds like what they're doing).

The list you have isn't terrible though (for guard). Add an Emperor's Wrath artillery company as you expand in points and think about exchanging the Eradicator for an Executioner dependent on how much ignores cover AP4 you need. compared to slinging a bunch of plasma blasts around.

For an AM list, it's pretty darn good! However the only recommendation I would have is to perhaps replace your camo nettings with multi meltas on your tank, tho replace the sponsors on either tank as Pask is gonna be close and more likely to pop tanks! With the space ten points, either toss a heavy Flamer or melta somewhere or give out some heavy stunners on tanks for weapon destroy results or dozer blades!

Your friends are playing tournament level competition lists. If you dump all of your multi lasers and melta into your friends wraithknight every turn, it would take six turns assuming you don't lose any of them over the course of the battle. Consider replacing the Eradicator with an Executioner. The Executioner's biggest weakness is wounding itself by rolling a 1 to hit, but pask's preferred enemy ability lets you reroll those. The Eradicator could still be useful, as it's own HS slot maybe, it just doesn't have any synergy with Pask. Other good Russes to take would be the basic battle tank, which will get instakill vs all of those races, vanquisher in pask's unit to negate it's low BS, or the Exterminator in a HS slot. A Vendetta or two... or three... with their 3 TL lascannons will be immensely helpful. Hydras would be good vs the WK. I also like the psykana division alot. Stick 'em in chimeras and roll divination for awesome bonuses like rerolling misses, rending, and ignore cover which give great synergy with squads of russes. Battle tanks ignoring cover? Punishers rerolling all hits? Rending vs that WK? Yes please.

Look into the Emperor's Fist or The Steel Host Formations when you're looking to beef up to a higher point values.

 slip wrote:
Your friends are playing tournament level competition lists. If you dump all of your multi lasers and melta into your friends wraithknight every turn, it would take six turns assuming you don't lose any of them over the course of the battle. Consider replacing the Eradicator with an Executioner. The Executioner's biggest weakness is wounding itself by rolling a 1 to hit, but pask's preferred enemy ability lets you reroll those. The Eradicator could still be useful, as it's own HS slot maybe, it just doesn't have any synergy with Pask. Other good Russes to take would be the basic battle tank, which will get instakill vs all of those races, vanquisher in pask's unit to negate it's low BS, or the Exterminator in a HS slot. A Vendetta or two... or three... with their 3 TL lascannons will be immensely helpful. Hydras would be good vs the WK. I also like the psykana division alot. Stick 'em in chimeras and roll divination for awesome bonuses like rerolling misses, rending, and ignore cover which give great synergy with squads of russes. Battle tanks ignoring cover? Punishers rerolling all hits? Rending vs that WK? Yes please.

Look into the Emperor's Fist or The Steel Host Formations when you're looking to beef up to a higher point values.

- The eradicator can split fire with orders on Ld 9
- He's going to be struggling for points to get the executioner at 1k
- Vanilla Russes are never good
- Vendettas are too expensive for 1k, especially if people aren't running armour
- Hydras are terrible against WK, 4 shots twin linked hitting on 6's, wounding on 5's, allowing 3+ armour and 5+++ FNP it'd take you ... 146 rounds of shooting for a hydra to inflict 6 wounds on a wraithknight. If you took an unbound army of nothing but 26 hydras (the most you can fit in 1850), after 5 turns of shooting at a wraithknight with average rolls on both sides, it'd still be alive.
- Units in transports or buildings can only cast witchfires from firepoints, so no buffing anything unless you get out (at which point you're pretty much dead, because barrage and ignores LOS is a thing)

 Drasius wrote:

- The eradicator can split fire with orders on Ld 9
- He's going to be struggling for points to get the executioner at 1k
- Vanilla Russes are never good
- Vendettas are too expensive for 1k, especially if people aren't running armour
- Hydras are terrible against WK, 4 shots twin linked hitting on 6's, wounding on 5's, allowing 3+ armour and 5+++ FNP it'd take you ... 146 rounds of shooting for a hydra to inflict 6 wounds on a wraithknight. If you took an unbound army of nothing but 26 hydras (the most you can fit in 1850), after 5 turns of shooting at a wraithknight with average rolls on both sides, it'd still be alive.
- Units in transports or buildings can only cast witchfires from firepoints, so no buffing anything unless you get out (at which point you're pretty much dead, because barrage and ignores LOS is a thing)

1- The point is that its just as good by itself than it is with Pask. Your point only reinforces that.

2- Yeah, those 20 points are really going to put him in the poor house.

3- Except being able to wipe any infantry in the game aside from Terminators and Cents.

4- A vendetta is basically unkillable at 1k, and which army doesn't take vehicles? Nids? It's also a starter army he's posting, he's probably going to expand it at some point!

5- Yeah, you're right here.

6- You can block LOS with the chimeras to keep them alive, that's mechanized troops 101. You also get to pick where you drop them, so if you dropped them out in the open away from any terrain, yeah, like any other AM squad they'd be toast! Barrage is actually pretty uncommon outside of AM, especially with competitive builds.

 slip wrote:

1- The point is that its just as good by itself than it is with Pask. Your point only reinforces that.
2- Yeah, those 20 points are really going to put him in the poor house.
3- Except being able to wipe any infantry in the game aside from Terminators and Cents.
4- A vendetta is basically unkillable at 1k, and which army doesn't take vehicles? Nids? It's also a starter army he's posting, he's probably going to expand it at some point!
5- Yeah, you're right here.
6- You can block LOS with the chimeras to keep them alive, that's mechanized troops 101. You also get to pick where you drop them, so if you dropped them out in the open away from any terrain, yeah, like any other AM squad they'd be toast! Barrage is actually pretty uncommon outside of AM, especially with competitive builds.

- Yeah, but he's not going to have room for another tank at 1k, and yes, his list is already tight, so that 20 points is problematic. Besides, ignores cover AP5 probably synergises with pasks AP- punisher about as well as the AP2 executioner does with pasks rending punisher, both have their merits but the eradicator is cheaper and fills a role that is desperately needed in competative lists (because 4+ armour relying on cover is the meta).
- You won't be wiping anything because cover is a thing
- A vendetta is subject to reserves and doesn't really put out that much firepower for 170 points. As for armies taking vehicles, it's not about that (though tanks have given way to MC's for a while now), it's about armies taking vehicles that are worth devoting a vendetta to shoot at. Popping rhinos after the marines have already gotten out or glancing a wave serpent to death over 3 turns after it's already dropped off it's wraithguard isn't going to help you.
- Barrage and ignores LOS don't care about them being behind a chimera and if you think barrage is uncommon, I'd love to play in a meta where thunderfire cannons aren't a thing

-You think I was just suggesting throwing in another tank without taking something out? You aren't arguing in good faith.
-72" range and even if you still target something in cover, that 5+ cover isn't going to be the different between unit wiped and unscathed.
-Reservse can actually be a good thing depending on opoonent/mission, many units are likely to miss a round of shooting per game due to moving flat out/getting damaged. SM/CSM/GK/IK/AM/Orks and others all have vehicles with high AV, and they'd do work against monstrous/gargantunan creatures to boot.
-Okay, better model your entire army and playstyle after one unit in the 4th most popular competitive build for the 3rd most popular competition race. Wraithguard have assault 1 strength D, better just pack it in.

In fact there's a list of SM tournament lists here. Thunderfire hasn't been a thing in tournaments since 2014.

Since you are building these units take the time to magnatize the Russes especially the turret weapons and sponsons..
(This will give you the ability to swap back and forth ) ..note two ..while most people seem to want to but heavy bolters on Pask punisher I have found putting multimeltas on there to be a better use for the same points ..Eradicator is as effective as an executioner just has different targets..camo netting is situational ..I rarely take it because it has never returned the points (tau just ignore cover) I would use multi meltas on the eradicator as well

Only ting I see your missing atm is a bubble wrap for the wyverns..so they will need to hide in cover or completely out of LOS (camo netting on them is more usefull)

Thanks for the tips everyone, since it doesen't seem like the camo nettings are point effectice, ive dropped them for a executioner with plasma sponson's. I did also drop relic plating so i could afford putting a lascannon on pask for more msc and tank hunting. I have updated the list

Well done this list Looks solid and should win more often than not..As you grow it give some consideration anti air and a bubble wrap for your artillery section ..

morfydd wrote:
Well done this list Looks solid and should win more often than not..As you grow it give some consideration anti air and a bubble wrap for your artillery section ..

Thanks! When im later on going to upgrade the army, i'm considering getting the following:

2x Vandetta (340 pts)

2x Leman Russ Battletank (300 pts)

10 Veterans (60 pts)
+ 2x Meltaguns (10x2 pts)
+ Chimera(Multilaser, Heavy Flamer) (65 pts)

+Wyvern Battery (65 pts)

For a total of 850 pts, so combinding that with the original army will later on give me a 1850 pts list.

I really like this list as it is,

I think when you expand consider a punisher russ, conscripts (with the blob tax) company/platoon command squads with melta/plasma/chimeras and psykers to re roll. Same job as vets with the bonus of being able to issue orders because right now your missing out on that big piece of the codex that's going to really help if you take time to remember them all/when to use em.

Makes for a well thought list to 1850..with two russes and 3 wyverns your backfeild presence is not shabby
and having a pair of vendettas in the air never hurt..

I'm a fan of the startup list so far for a Mechanzied Theme. A couple options for you (And by no means anything hardfast that you should or should not do):

I've had a lot of success with 3 meltaguns on the vets, grenadiers, and demo. It rounds out to a 200pt unit, true, but as a kill unit it's nice. If you're planning on keeping them in the chimera and not dumping out at all, I'd say go 2 meltas and a flamer (the flamer will help if you get charged). If you plan on dumping out, go 3 melta.

As a suicide squad, I like the demo for the meltabombs that you can attach to vehicles... superheavies... monstrous creatures... you get the idea.

Wyverns are awesome and fun. I've actually favored taking Thudd Guns over them as of recent for the artillery rules and 3 Thudd Guns (Quad Mortars) end up being cheaper at str 5 and can be given orders. That being said, keeping with your mechanized theme I'd 100% keep with the Wyverns.

I use an Aegis Defense Line as a crutch in many circumstances, so take it or leave it, but I do love mine.

Anti-Air is always tough. Hydras in groups are nice somewhat cheap answers to it. Vendettas are nice, but pricey in groups and if your dice rolls start to be lacking, can be problematic.

You should have a look at some of the formations in the Mont'Ka book for some interesting and fun themed sets. Specifically the Emperor's Blade, the Emperor's FIst, and the Emperor's Wrath. I've had fun with them.