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Hi all, old player returning after a long time out, want to collect a Grey Knight army, i think I'll start with building up a 1500 pt army, let me know what you think.

list 1 (Vehicle assault):

HQ

Grey Knight Librarian Level 3 - 140 pts
- Storm bolter

Troops

5 man Terminator Squad - 425 pts
- Incinerator
- Land Raider DT

5 man Terminator Squad - 425 pts
- Incinerator
- Land Raider DT

5 man Terminator Squad - 175 pts
- Incinerator

Heavy Support

Nemesis Dreadknight - 210 pts
- Personal Teleporter
- Heavy Incinerator
- Heavy psilencer

Total: 1475 pts ( + bone shard of solor or fury of deimos?)

For this army, I hope to normally deploy the two DT Terminator squads, then deep strike the Librarian with the third squad along with the dreadknight, i'm hoping that isn't too few targets for the enemy and and that i can get them into cover before they get shot up maybe. I am approaching a Land Raider duet for this army as not much else can deal with heavy armour, which is why i have selected them over the crusader/redeemer options...

So, how about that? I have never played Grey Knights before so this is probably as terrible as i imagine, feel free to criticise away, thanks!

Generale tips:
Psy cannons are out strongest rangend weapon and on terminators they always have 4 shots so that's a must for me, incinerator are just as effective on purifiers and interceptors who don't have relentless.

You always want a hammer or metal bombs on terminator squad in case of high toughness/walkers(don't standard put hammer on justicar because he can get challenge out)

Land raiders are really expensive for what they do(2is to much if a point sink better take another ndk) , draigo(low) is our mobile land raider(standard gate of infinity) who has ap2 in melee and can get 2++ with ew to tank all hits.

On the librarian the liber demonica is beat if you roll on santic if not the armor is better. The Deimos bolter Sucks for its points. The glove is for grand master because they want to melee. The librarian doesn't like combat with other hq(2atacks) If you lose him a lot of spells and wc are lost. I always put another char with him to accept the challenges.

There is also a grey Knight tips and tricks in tactica forum with good advice!
Anyway my thoughts

^Def all this.

This is all competitive tournament style advice, so your mileage may vary. There's honestly nothing wrong with your list if you want to have fun just playing the game at your FLGS.

Personally I'd ditch the LRs and the terminator squads with them. AP2 is way more common now than it ever was. I'd even consider downgrading the one squad to a Strike Squad and sticking Draigo with them, who can tank better by himself than a whole squad of terminators. NSF detachment needs only one troops and lets you start deep striking earlier too. However, with Draigo's Gates power DS is unnecessary. The strike squad hits every bit as hard as the terminators, but for way cheaper. (Even the psycannons are cheaper. No relentless though, so incinerators will be more effective for strike squads.) Give them all falchions and remember to cast Force/hammer and they'll instakill basically anything in the game while Draigo eats damage.

To make a more competitive build consider maxing out librarians, taking purifiers in a rhino, and maxing out dreadknights. Interceptors can be useful in certain situations too. Force weapons for the dreadknight are a good investment too.

Good allies would be an IK, assassins, or a librarian conclave.

 slip wrote:
^Def all this..

thankyou both for your replies, you both seem to know a fair bit on Grey Knights, and I know very little.

I dont mean to ask too much, but i have an idea of the models i want to have in my full army, with no idea to best assemble them into an army. The models I hope to have are:

Brother Stern
Librarian (maybe 2)
Kaldor Draigo
25 power armour GK
- 3 Psycannons
- 4 incinerators
20 Terminators
- 4 Incinerators
3 Dreadknights
- (dunno about options, find some way to change it for each game probably)
2 land raiders
2 rhino/razorbacks (can you make a razorback a rhino from the razorback set? Do you need additional components?)

Is that a good range of models to have? Despite what you said about the LRs, i would like to have them as they are nice to deal with big guys from afar, but will be happy to play smaller games without them.

Could you come up with a list, 1500 again i suppose, that would best utilise the above models? Thanks.

Okay, so you mentioned you were an old player, how confindent are you in your model conversion skills? A GK marines can be converted pretty easily to a purifier.

Strike Squad

Purifiers

As you can see, a different coat of paint and some robes and bam, purifiers.

Do as you like with the LRs, they can be pretty effective in just a plain old pick up game no problem. Keep in mind they can be effective vs vehicles or elite troops, but not so much vs MCs or other heavies. That's why they don't do so well in a hyper competitive environment.

For your list I would go NSF with both librarians, 2x purifers w/ rhino, Draigo and 2 dreadknights. One unit of strike squad or terminators for all your characters, and whatever LRs you can fit in that I suppose. Just deploy the squad normally though, leave the LRs empty. Draigo can basically teleport so a ride isn't needed. If you just can't get enough LRs, consider grabbing another LR and taking a Land Raider Spearhead formation from the SM codex. If you find any points (like say subbing out the LRs.) take another min Strike Squad so that you can upgrde from a NSF to a CAD, giving you a 3rd HS slot for your third Dreadknight. (That's your real scary model here.)

 slip wrote:
Okay, so you mentioned you were an old player, how confindent are you in your model conversion skills? A GK marines can be converted pretty easily to a purifier.

Eh, i was never great at conversions, but could manage this so that's fine.

If the NSF becomes a CAD, don't i lose the ability to deep strike turn 1?

Ok, so with that i suppose something like:

1 Librarians
Kaldor Draigo
2 x 5 terminators
2 x 10 purifiers
2 Rhinos
Dreadknight

gets about 1300 + upgrades, something like that?

Also, would you have any advice as to how i can turn psycannons on power armour knights into incinerators? thanks

You do lose the deepstrike option going CAD but your Dreadknight (We call them NDKs.) have a persanal teleporter that allows them one shunt move of 30" and Draigo can teleport whatever squad he's in. In combination it's more reliable than a deepstrike. Only go CAD to max out your NDKs.

I like this list a lot, even if I'd try to max my NDKs but it's got plenty of oomph itself. Deepstrike just the one squad of termies, Draigo can hop his around the board.

Wouldn't know about that particular conversion.You should be fine for the moment, you have 4 incinerators and the rhino's have 2 fire ports. Run right up to your opponent's troops, nova, then double incinerator. Should wipe the whole unit.

Man when I play Purfs, I don't do anything except swap backpacks. I have magnetized backpacks, and silver ones are for GKSS, while my white ones are for Purfs. It's very simple.

 slip wrote:
You do lose the deepstrike option going CAD but your Dreadknight (We call them NDKs.) have a persanal teleporter that allows them one shunt move of 30" and Draigo can teleport whatever squad he's in. In combination it's more reliable than a deepstrike. Only go CAD to max out your NDKs.

I like this list a lot, even if I'd try to max my NDKs but it's got plenty of oomph itself. Deepstrike just the one squad of termies, Draigo can hop his around the board.

Wouldn't know about that particular conversion.You should be fine for the moment, you have 4 incinerators and the rhino's have 2 fire ports. Run right up to your opponent's troops, nova, then double incinerator. Should wipe the whole unit.

Yes, i was concerned about the NDK being the only big target. Might have to be careful at how I move him across the map. Ok. I'll work on collecting that, just bought a NDK so thats good.

How highly do you rate brother Stern? Its just that i have him from a while ago and would like to use him.

Brother Stern is good to give guaranteed Sanctuary to Draigo, but his reroll rule is bad, and the banishment buff is useless 90% of the time. He's good for that one thing and decent in CC but he's a little overpriced.

Ii like the list i like running interceptors too as again the 30" shunt is game changing.
I usualy combat squad all my units that i can to maximise warp charges (may not be RAW but we couldnt decide so ruled it this way).
Purifiers with there cleansing flame i find is the most reliable AA (decent strength and Ignores cover plus multiple hits).

Been playing grey knights awhile now. When I first started , I asked this forum how to run GK list. I was told there are 2 competitive lists. Dreadknight spam using 4,5 or even 6 dreadknights , or draigo cent star. I've tried both of these. The star seems more competitive to me and the ndk list is almost as awesome but way more fun. Now it seems your going for more of a fun list , so whatever goes , but I would still max out the dread knights for your detachment if you can. I know someone previously mentioned this , but it seemed understated. Just thought I would bring this to light a little more.

I am actually a big fan or termies. I tried hard to get strike squad to work for me , and my tau and elder buddies ripped me new ones back to back , over and over. I went from about 40 models in my 1850 list to 23 models , just using 17 termies ,4 ndks and 2 libbys , and I rocked it. HARD.

Mobility is a big issue. if you are running draigo , or an ml3+damonica libby , you can get your terminators across the board without transports and the ndks teleport , and that solves the mobility issue. The problem with landraiders is they are slow , costly , and don't have enough firepower. Their only saving grace is that it is hard to kill. That to me doesn't warrant its use. I tried to make storm ravens work. They have way more guns to shoot with added hurricane bolters and its still cheaper than a landraider. They can fire 5 weapons at full bs at full 36 inch speed. Although it armor 12 all around , its prolly harder to kill than a landraider due to hard to kill flyer rule and jink and that cc attacks don't exist. The storm raven can even drop off passengers midflight. What killed storm raven for me was having to wait for them to come into battle.

i'd like to also mention that someone has mention to me that puffier spam is a viable list. I've tried it and couldn't get the paper list to work for me.

I'm hoping some of what I've said will give you a clearer view of the grey knights. I hoped it helps. Best of luck.

@jonman that is great advice, thankyou. I'm still eager on LR because i like them. But maybe save them for bigger games 1501+)

Ok. So i have exactly 1000pts worth of models, if i set them up like so, on my possession, how do you think they would fair?:

NSF

Librarian ML3
- Storm Bolter
- Liber Daemonica

10 purifiers
- 2 Incinerators

5 Terminators
- Incinerators

NDK
- Heavy psilencer
- Heavy incinerator
- GreatSword

NDK
- Heavy psycannon
- Heavy incinerator
- Greatsword

Low model count but maxed out DKs. Can I deep strike all units? Or illegal/too risky?

Purifiers don't have deepstrike. I wouldn't recomend running a deepstrike list without some reserves trickery. (Comms relay, homers, servo skulls, for example.) One mishap and there goes 25% of your army. If you don't make all your reserve rolls, you'll feed your army piecemeal into the opponent's meat grinder. (Threat overload is key to survival in an alpha strike list.) Too risky.

You can run minimum size purifiers, giving you enough points for a rhino (Absolutely vital to their success.) and personal teleporters for your NDKs. (Also vital.) Psycannons are a better choice on terminators because of how relentless works with salvo.

Low model count will be a problem, especially in Maelstrom missions, but that's GKs for ya.

Oops. I forgot to put the teleporters, they are already paid for.

What do you mean purifiers don't have deep strike? Do you mean the rule? Neither do terminators but people deep strike them? Or am i being totally confused?

It is totally legal now* to have everything in reserves , you don't count as tabled until the end of the game turn , not player turn. I was thinking of doing this if my opponent wins first turn , just be aware , if you Yahtzee 1's or 2's on your deepstrike rolls , its gee gee.

Purifiers don't DS. That's their main drawback. That's one reason they are tricky to use. But if you can figure it out , like rhinos I think someone said , their psychic ability is badass.

That's list you have can still work , maybe keeping the purifiers as objective holders? I mean it depends how you are going to play it on the table.

Psycannons are best on the termies and Dks. Some say the purifiers don't need the incinerator because the psychic power ignores cover , but its upto you , you still get the benefit of d3 auto hits in overwatch with incinerator. The gatling psilencer is a bad option in my opinion. Obviously it depends on scenario , but I think in the long run going with incinerator and psycannon is the most effective point wise.

I went from orks to greyknights. Getting used to low model count was like learning the game all over again. I totally prefer lower model counts now. I don't have to spend 3 hours on my movement phases anymore moving a green tide around.

cheers.

***edit*** almost forgot , you should find room to add some hammers. it doubles your Strength, and the basic squads can use hammerhand psychic ability for effective s10 ap2 hits on vehicles or mcs. I run 1 in every squad and the libbys get it for cheaper. Remember , you are the hammer!

Ah just so much information!!

I'm joking of course, there's just so much thought going into it i'm stumped haha!

I think if i were to add to this. I would add a termie squad. Rhino and combat squad the purifiers. Then either a LR or Draigo.

The problem with the weapon selection (psilencer/hammers) is that the models are already assembled, so i'll just have to say that oh this guy has a hammer btw, idk ://

Ok, so i have thought about everything that has been said, and I have come up with this final list. this list doesn't include Draigo asi dont expect to afford him for some time soon. But includes other models i have (including a librarian conversion in progress):

Warlord Librarian ML 3 - 170pts
- Daemonhammer
- Storm bolter
- Domina Liber Daemonica

Librarian ML 3 - 165pts
- Storm bolter
- Cuirass of Sacrifice

10 man purifier squad - 315pts
- 5 halberds
- Daemonhammer
- 2 Incinerators
- Rhino DT

6 man terminator squad - 228pts
- Daemonhammer
- Psycannon

5 man terminator squad - 185pts
- Psycannon
- Daemonhammer

Nemesis Dreadknight - 215pts
- Personal teleporter
- Heavy Incinerator
- Heavy Psycannon

Nemesis Dreadknight - 220pts
- Personal teleporter
- Heavy Incinerator
- Heavy Psilencer (i know jonman you disputed this but i want to try it out)

= 1493pts

So, deploy purifiers and dreadknights. Deepstrike each terminator squad with a lib (warlord goes with the 6-man squad). Shunt both DKs to soak up shots and take out as much as possible before the rest of the army get to the fight. Kill, take, etc...

How about that?

Force on your NDKs is really helpful. They will want to beat up on tough stuff, like other MCs, and against those targets they aren't actually THAT survivable, so the faster you kill the longer you survive.

I take my NDKs like so: they all always have the Psycannon. The first one I take in a list has an incinerator; the second has a psilencer; the third has an incinerator; etc. The Psilencer is really useful against Daemons, Necrons, and DE, and can even do some hilarious damage against things like Crisis Suits and Centurions. All it takes is one failed save....

And you should always strive to build a list that is within the points limit. If you want more points, play a bigger game. Ask your opponent to play a 1505pt game. Just give your opponent the courtesy of using the same amount of points that you do. Your opponent will restrict him/herself to 1500, so you should show the same respectful consideration of the rules.
Or do you think it's ok for a unit to use an extra die when shooting? It's just one more, in a handful of 20....
Or if I just move my unit 7" this time instead of 6"....it's just one extra inch across the whole game's movement and I really need it to cap this objective!

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Force on your NDKs is really helpful. They will want to beat up on tough stuff, like other MCs, and against those targets they aren't actually THAT survivable, so the faster you kill the longer you survive.

I take my NDKs like so: they all always have the Psycannon. The first one I take in a list has an incinerator; the second has a psilencer; the third has an incinerator; etc. The Psilencer is really useful against Daemons, Necrons, and DE, and can even do some hilarious damage against things like Crisis Suits and Centurions. All it takes is one failed save....

And you should always strive to build a list that is within the points limit. If you want more points, play a bigger game. Ask your opponent to play a 1505pt game. Just give your opponent the courtesy of using the same amount of points that you do. Your opponent will restrict him/herself to 1500, so you should show the same respectful consideration of the rules.
Or do you think it's ok for a unit to use an extra die when shooting? It's just one more, in a handful of 20....
Or if I just move my unit 7" this time instead of 6"....it's just one extra inch across the whole game's movement and I really need it to cap this objective!

Well, when you put it that way :(

ok cool

Looking good. I'd drop the hammer and soul glaive. Your libbies are not going to be rocking anybody in CC even with them anyways. Their base weapon gives good anti-psyker bonuses and still get the point across in CC. I'd go cuirass of sacrifice if you really wanted to take another relic. (IWND helps vs POTW and FNP is nice.)

You mentioned it earlier, but make sure you combat squad that purifier squad for 2x nova. Speaking of which, the psycannons really aren't working on the purifiers. Consider the salvo profile of the psycannon and the range of Cleansing Flame. On the move in a rhino they're going to be snap firing the lower shot total. 3 shots 6's to hit doesn't sound very good. Incinerators don't care about that, they also ignore cover, which is what your nova does. The nova and the incinerators share a similar range. Nova + incinerators will absolutely clear MSU, especially scatbike spam. (No jink saves vs cleansing flame or incinerators.)

Psycannons for your termies is good. Just make sure you don't put the hammer on the squad leader, give it to a random model. Characters can get challenged out and killed before they get a chance to swing it. If you find the points, kit these guys out with halberds or falchions.

Really good list though overall. Good job!

 slip wrote:
Looking good. I'd drop the hammer and soul glaive. Your libbies are not going to be rocking anybody in CC even with them anyways. Their base weapon gives good anti-psyker bonuses and still get the point across in CC. I'd go cuirass of sacrifice if you really wanted to take another relic. (IWND helps vs POTW and FNP is nice.)

You mentioned it earlier, but make sure you combat squad that purifier squad for 2x nova. Speaking of which, the psycannons really aren't working on the purifiers. Consider the salvo profile of the psycannon and the range of Cleansing Flame. On the move in a rhino they're going to be snap firing the lower shot total. 3 shots 6's to hit doesn't sound very good. Incinerators don't care about that, they also ignore cover, which is what your nova does. The nova and the incinerators share a similar range. Nova + incinerators will absolutely clear MSU, especially scatbike spam. (No jink saves vs cleansing flame or incinerators.)

Psycannons for your termies is good. Just make sure you don't put the hammer on the squad leader, give it to a random model. Characters can get challenged out and killed before they get a chance to swing it. If you find the points, kit these guys out with halberds or falchions.

Really good list though overall. Good job!

Oopsy, the purifiers are meant to have incinerators, think i just rushed typed that.

I have a hammer on the Lib as the model i have has a thunderhammer, but i could do some work on that, otherwise i might keep it.... Yes, will Combat squad purifiers. OK thankyou!