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So it never made sense to me that the Eldar have 2 formations that can contain Dire Avengers that are so similar. Both contain 3 units that must take Exarchs, both allows Moral/Pinning re-rolls, both grant +1BS.
Really the only difference is that the Avenger shrine only has Avengers and gives +1 shot, while the Aspect Host is 3 of any Aspect unit and can instead give +1WS.
What I am proposing is that they be combined into 1 formation as follows:

Aspect Shrine:
requires 1 unit of Dire Avengers, 2 units of any Aspect Warrior units (including more Avengers if you want, but not Crimson Hunters)
All bonuses/restrictions from the Aspect Host apply. (must have Exarchs, +1BS or WS, moral re-rolls, etc)

What this will do is get rid of the redundant Avenger Shrine (that no one really fields) and balance the Aspect Host by requiring a "tax" unit of Avengers.
Thoughts?

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I'm not a huge fan. It seems like it punishes casual lists with things like Hosts of Spears, Scorpions and Banshees more than tournament ones which have the problem.

I'd add that the DA Shrine seems intended to represent a single large shrine which the Aspect Host doesn't do.

I think it would be better if the Dire Avenger Shrine (which only has 1 Exarch between the 3 squads) was moved to being a Core Choice and the Aspect Host remained but couldn't take Dire Avengers as one of the squad choices.

pm713 wrote:
I'm not a huge fan. It seems like it punishes casual lists with things like Hosts of Spears, Scorpions and Banshees more than tournament ones which have the problem.

I'd add that the DA Shrine seems intended to represent a single large shrine which the Aspect Host doesn't do.

I agree that the Shrine seems meant for a single large group of DAs, but I'd add that it is still possible to do all Avengers with this formation if you want to, you only miss the +1 shot, which is a bit overkill anyway.

As for using the CC units, I would point out that DAs have loads of CC abilities, so choosing +1WS to benefit the Banshees or Scorpions would not be lost on the DAs. Even though DAs are better used as a shooting unit, it is clear that GW intends them to be the "all-rounder" Aspect unit. I am actually surprised that GW made a DA specific formation in the first place instead of just the Aspect Host.

 Imateria wrote:
I think it would be better if the Dire Avenger Shrine (which only has 1 Exarch between the 3 squads) was moved to being a Core Choice and the Aspect Host remained but couldn't take Dire Avengers as one of the squad choices.

Actually not a bad idea, you get an exalt!

While we are on that subject, why the heck are there 2 Guardian formations that are exactly the same, but just have 2 different type of guardians? It would have been better to make 1 Guardian Formation that you could mix-n-match Storms & Defenders. It just seems to me that there are too many redundant formations in the Eldar book.

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 Galef wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I'm not a huge fan. It seems like it punishes casual lists with things like Hosts of Spears, Scorpions and Banshees more than tournament ones which have the problem.

I'd add that the DA Shrine seems intended to represent a single large shrine which the Aspect Host doesn't do.

I agree that the Shrine seems meant for a single large group of DAs, but I'd add that it is still possible to do all Avengers with this formation if you want to, you only miss the +1 shot, which is a bit overkill anyway.

As for using the CC units, I would point out that DAs have loads of CC abilities, so choosing +1WS to benefit the Banshees or Scorpions would not be lost on the DAs. Even though DAs are better used as a shooting unit, it is clear that GW intends them to be the "all-rounder" Aspect unit. I am actually surprised that GW made a DA specific formation in the first place instead of just the Aspect Host.
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At which point it's representing three different Shrines.

They have an exarch who can get some cc ability and then it's a load of S3 attacks. Hardly amazing. I agree they're meant to be all rounders but they don't do it very well. I can see why they got a formation for it as they're meant to be the most populous kind of Aspect Warrior so this shows a really big Shrine but as Imateria said it would be better as Core. Actually Imateria's idea seems pretty good. I wish they'd done that to begin with.

DA seem to be most closely resembling Tactical Marines more than anything, minus the option of taking special weapons, since it's a sqaud of normal infantry and the possibility to tool out a Sgt upgrade (and a better one than marines get since the Exarch has 2 wounds and a native 4++).

Right from the start I've wished you could take DA's as a core choice, I'm just glad IA11's Pale Courts formation does let me do that, though it can apply to any Aspect.