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Commander
twin linked Burst cannon
shield
stim
Iridium suit
multi spectrum sensor suite
2 shield drones

Darkstrider


10 man Strike team
Shasui
markerlight &target lock
Turret with smart missiles
shield drone
marker drone



10 man Strike team
Shasui
markerlight &target lock
Turret with smart missiles
shield drone
marker drone



10 man Strike team
Shasui
markerlight &target lock
Turret with smart missiles
shield drone
marker drone



10 man Strike team
Shasui
markerlight &target lock
Turret with smart missiles
shield drone
Marker drone



Stealth suits
fusion blaster
shasvre
homing beacon
markerlight
2 marker drones



Stealth suits
fusion blaster
shasvre
homing beacon
markerlight
2 marker drones


5 Crisis Bodyguards
2 twin linked plasma rifles
2 twin linked fusion blasters
twin lniked burst cannon
5 target locks
2 shield drones

Pathfinder team
shasui
2 marker drones


Pathfinder team
shasui
2 marker drones



I'm pretty sure this comes to 1499. The general idea of the list is to infiltrate the stealth suits into cover 12" away from my enemy and use them to bounce in and out of line of sight to either markerlight key targets or just wittle down the enemy numbers, they'll also be instrumental in letting me deepstrike my commander and his 5 bodyguards as close to the enemy as possible. This isn't meant to be the killing blow, just a distraction that will hopefully make my opponent start to panic and focus on them. The pathfinders are my markerlight blobs, just like the stealth suits they're there to light up key targets with up to 6 markerlights a turn. The strike teams make up my numbers, and with 40 on the field they should pose a significant threat as they stay within cover and advance on objectives. I'm not entirely sure why I chose darkstrider to add to the list or what I should do with him. I could replace him with a broadside, but then I have the issue of only one anti tank unit, then again, I currently have none.

Please, tear this list apart, break it down piece by piece and tell me what I've chosen well and what I haven't. I play against a few very competative players at my local club, including one tht loves his new librarian conclave and scout swap trick.

I am far from an expert, but I would drop the twin linked on your commander in favor of another burst cannon. A commander is BS 5 so the he will hit on a 2. This eliminates the need for twin linked and will allow him to hit with more shots. I would also recommend dropping a stealth suit squad and adding a target lock onto the other one for the fusion blaster. Otherwise he will be shooting at the same unit as the burst cannons and that can result in wasted shots. It will allow him to possibly pop a vehicle while they shoot infantry. I would also drop a squad of fire warriors to try and get at least one devilfish. Without transports, your warriors will be foot slogging across the board and it could take them along time to get to an objective. I would also try to fit in two broadsides or at least one hammerhead. Also having target lock on all your crisis suits seems like a waste to me. If they are all shooting at different enemies, the chances of them doing enough damage to make an impact is minimal. I recommend only having target lock on the fusion guy.

1) Don't waste points on burst cannons, you've already got more than enough str 5 AP 5 volume of fire from the firewarriors.

2) Twin linking guns on the commander is a no-no, pay the extra points for another copy of the same gun.

3) If you're taking MSSS, you're taking the C&CN as well. Spend the points on that instead of twin linking all the guns on your crisis unit.

4) If you're not going to shoot with the commander due to MSSS and C&CN, don't bother taking guns (or if you must, take a flamer for overwatch)

5) Don't use bodyguard crisis, use regular crisis, you should rarely be using that second attack and a 10 point premium is too much.

6) Shield drones are bad. Marker or gun drones will be ablative wounds just fine and can also contribute to either a bit of shooting or putting a markerlight on stuff.

7) Pathfinders are bad, there's very little reason not to use either marker drones with a drone controller or just splurge a bit for the drone net. With the amount of drones you have there, you could easily consolidate them all into a drone net and have extras.

8) You have exactly 4 guns that can hurt AV13+ and 6 guns that can hurt AV12. That's generally pretty bad for 1500.

9) Stealth suits are, well, not exactly bad, but definately not great. If you drop a bunch of extra drones and wargear you can almost certainly find the points for a ghostkeel to make a optimised stealth cadre where the stealth suits get much better and get the bonus of being able to hit rear armour, solving the issue from 8)

Everything Drasius stated, I second. Heck, his advice reads almost verbatim like what I'd state.

Further:
The points you spend on each XV8's Twin-Linked gun adds up to the C&CN. So, far better to spend more points on additional guns, and then *also* get the C&CN. Put the MSS and C&CN on a 'Vre instead, preserving the Cmndr's better BS5.

'Ui Fire Warriors and FW upgrades:
Generally, I haven't bothered with Marker or Shield Drones in a unit of FWs (for 11 years). The Marker Drone's separate targeting, including the Ui's Marker just makes for more complicated shooting, and won't always add up to really effective Marker use. Fluff-wise, it makes grerat sense, but game wise, most folks and myself just run crew of FWs. Also, back them down to 9 dudes, or go full 12 FWs. It has to do with the 25% casualty mechanic with Morale Checks. You're already there with 10 guys and 2 drones, but if you toss the drones, then put in the footers up to 12, or down to 9.

Shield Drones in the Crisis Team:
With jsj, you're almost always going to get behind some cover, so Gun Drones make more sense to have for ablative wounds, 'cuz they shoot, too.

Commander
shield
stim
Iridium suit
multi spectrum sensor suite
command and control node
2 gun drones



9 man Strike team
Shasui
markerlight &target lock
Turret with smart missiles




9 man Strike team
Shasui
markerlight &target lock
Turret with smart missiles




9 man Strike team
Shasui
markerlight &target lock
Turret with smart missiles



9 man Strike team
Shasui
markerlight &target lock
Turret with smart missiles




Stealth suits
fusion blaster
shasvre
homing beacon
markerlight
2 marker drones
target lock



Stealth suits
fusion blaster
shasvre
homing beacon
markerlight
2 marker drones
target lock


5 Crisis suits
3 twin linked plasma rifles
2 twin linked fusion blasters
10 gun drones


Ghostkeel
twin linked fusion blaster


3 man Broadside team




Altogether I think this comes to 1362 points. What gaps still need plugging in the list, and what can I do to plug them?

There's still a lot of newB foibles here. I'm an 11 year Tau veteran, so I hope this helps.

 LazzurusMan wrote:
Commander
shield
stim
Iridium suit
multi spectrum sensor suite
command and control node
2 gun drones

1. I dunno as he needs a Shield Gen. I rarely give him one, relying on Look Out, Sir! to save his bacon.
2. Add Drone Controller to the Commander, and switch his Gun Drones to Marker Drones. You gain 2 Marker Drones, with BS5.
3. He needs a Target Lock, base on more on below:

 LazzurusMan wrote:
5 Crisis suits
3 twin linked plasma rifles
2 twin linked fusion blasters
10 gun drones

1. There is absolutely no reason to have the MSS and C&CN on the Cmdr. Put those on a 'Vre in the Crisis Team instead.
a. You gain the Cmdr's BS5 over the Crisis Suit's BS3 and *lose nothing*.
b. At some point, your opponent might just scrag that unit, and the Cmdr. is going to be the lone survivor. Better that he has guns, huh? I've been fielding it with the 'Vre packing the toys since the codex dropped and it's far more effective.

2. Too many drones. **
a. The footprint of this unit is enormous and will get caught in h2h all the time. At least give the Commander Vectored Retro Thrusters. Using a his or a Drone's Init, you can Hit and Run out of Combat decently.
b. 6 suits is the optimum, I think, so that's good, but I'd only have 2 Frisbees in the pile.

 LazzurusMan wrote:

9 man Strike team
Shasui
markerlight &target lock
Turret with smart missiles

x4

Tau gun line still doesn't hold well. I'd shed the extra items.** I know they came in the GW box, and it grates to not field models, leaving them on your shelf, but mobile FWs are better than static ones. White Scars, Drop Pods, Eldar, etc, the meta in 40k is heavily against static gun lines.

 LazzurusMan wrote:

Stealth suits
fusion blaster
shasvre
homing beacon
markerlight
2 marker drones
target lock

**
"Pushing" units.
Best units for tau have dudes with guns, and not much else. Your doing what is essentially loading up on fat, "pushing" units up to the game's points limit with wargear. It makes for some okay options, but veteran list builders load their lists with more guns.

It was the same in the 4e codex. EMP grenades, 'Ui promotions, drones, MarkerLights, etc. Whether for Stealths or FWs, moar guns is the way to go. Dump all of the extraneous wargear, and I bet you'll find points enough half a unit of FWs.

Deep Striking a Crisis Team is usually suicide. You get close, nail a unit or two, and then get shot to pieces and assaulted. I'd ditch the Homing Beacons for that reason.

In 11 years of playing tau, I honestly cannot recall putting them in a list.

 LazzurusMan wrote:
3 man Broadside team

I love fielding these with the Missile Drones. Drones are good for ablative wounds, and simply additional fire power.

You might also consider splitting the b-sides into a single and a duo, with Missile Drones.

 LazzurusMan wrote:
Altogether I think this comes to 1362 points. What gaps still need plugging in the list, and what can I do to plug them?

1. Missile Drones for the b-sides. And more Crisis Suits. Or Ghostkeels, though I have not yet played them. Against them, yes, and they do pack good fire power, with the fun that is Monstrous Creatures.
2. A unit of Marker Drones. Maybe two. All those points you spent on upgrading the FWs? Spend them on MarkerD units. You gain
a. mobile MarkerLights, instead of Heavy 1 that will drop to Snap Fire if you have to move your FWs
b. the JumpShootJump fun and defensive hiding
c. The option of having your Commander baby sit them, with Drone Controller, gaining BS5.

And the Crisis Team will still be Twin Linked and Ignores Cover, because you put the MSS and C&CN on a 'Vre.

Better?

Thus:
Commander - 2 guns, Irid Armor, 2 MarkerDrones, Stims, VRT or Drone Contoller ( the 'Vre can take the VRT, MSS and C&CN, and a Drone's Init can be used for Hit and Run ).

Crisis Team - 5 dudes, 1 'Vre with MSS and C&CN (flamer, in case of assault, it'll give Wall of Death), the other with PRs, FBs and a couple Target Locks. 2 Gun Drones

x4 FWs units. Just dudes with guns

Stealth crews - Fusion? Sure. Nothing else

Ghosty

B-sides x2 with 4 Missile Drones
B-side x1 with his Missile Ds

x4 Marker Drones
x4 Marker Drones

... and you can check on the points.