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Hey guys, I just got my copy of IA 13 in the mail, and I was hoping for some feedback on a list I tossed together. I mostly play casual to friendly competition games, making a list for 1850.
CA=Carapace Armor
MT=Militia Training

HQ
Renegade Command Squad
-Arch Demagogue: Bloody Handed Reaver, Covenant of Tzeentch, CA, Autogun, Refractor Field, Warlord
-Disciples: Banner of Hate, Command Net Vox, Flakk ML, CA
-DT Chimera: Dozer Blade, Autocannon, MT)

Renegade Enforcer's Cadre
-Enforcer (join Grenadiers): CA
-Enforcer (join Grenadiers): CA
-Enforcer (join Ogryns): CA, Power Maul, Power Axe, Combat Drug Injectors, Melta Bombs

Elites
Renegade Ogryn Brutes w/ CoT and CA
-2x Standard Brutes
-Packmaster w/ 5 hounds
-Ogryn w/ Power Drill

Troops
Renegade Grenadier Squad
-CA, 1x Hot Shot Volley Gun, 1x Plasma Gun
-DT Chimera: Dozer Blade, Autocannon, MT

Renegade Grenadier Squad
-^^Same as above^^

Heavy Support
Heavy Ordnance Battery
-2x Medusa w/ MT

Rapier Laser Destroyer Battery
-3x Rapier w/ MT and Flak Armor

Renegade Strike Battery
-5x Wyverns / MT

Thanks for the help!

Hi,

IA13 is such a great book!
If you have the budget, i suggest you get the new Siege of Vraks too! The detachments and devotions are better : it allows the equivalent of 10-18 heavy support choices in a single detachment...!

Since you purchased the Covenant of Tzeentch on your warlord, you should consider including spawns (three units of three) instead of the Ogryns, which are imo very expensive (even outside the R&H standard) and not very good unfortunately. Spawns are very fast and quite durable in cover, which they can reach easily and through which they can move without penalty. They make good objective grabbers and can hold against small units with no s10.

I'm not sure the Grenadiers are worth it, but keep us informed if it worked for you. If you want some ap3 weapons, you would be better served with an Earthhsaker.

I think you want to play just one CAD, which means limited heavy slots, and that's why you have 5 wyverns forming a single unit, but I think 20 blasts will overkill your target. It would be better in two units. In my experience, it's impossible to exploit the full potential of R&H (and even half of it) with a single CAD : heavy slots is where we shine, we need more than three.

I actually have two spawn units in the list, just forgot to write them down. I have Siege of Vraks, but it doesn't let me take Tzeentch at all, and I am doing this to fit with my Thousand Sons in a flluffy way if possible. I will look into doing 2 different CAD, as I was hard pressed in choosing my HS choices haha. I will probably drop the Ogryns if i do that just for more hHS points. I took the Grenadiers because I really enjoy playing small, elite infantry choices as opposed to blob tactics (I play Mech Guard haha). How would you rate HS choices? I know rapiers and cheap artillery are great, but I am unsure where to go. Are the heavy weapon squads in HS any good? I have a ton of Heavy Weapon Teams haha. Thanks for the feedback!

Basically some combination of rapiers, earthshaker/medusa platforms, wyverns, griffons + quad mortars are the strongest in my opinion. I also like to throw in a couple of hydras to deal with anti-air. The HS section of R+H is crazily strong! As Mr Renegade Korps said, you can't really have enough of them.

The heavy weapon squads aren't bad but just aren't as good as the rest of these in my opinion due to being much easier to gun down. You could invest in a bunker or something to hide them in, but i'd rather have more rapiers or quad mortars than make the investment personally! If you already have the models you could try playtesting them on mass? They're cheaper than IG/AM HWTs at least.

 DoomMouse wrote:
Basically some combination of rapiers, earthshaker/medusa platforms, wyverns, griffons + quad mortars are the strongest in my opinion

In my opinion too. You can't go wrong with that.

Though you aim at friendly game, you should take advantage of the best devotion (Master of the Horde or Ordnance Tyrant).

As for the fluff issue, you can use Siege of Vraks without taking Nurgle or Khorne covenant. Take none and you can still use the spawns.
If not taking the ordnance tyrant, i would suggest at least a Purge detachment and... another Purge detachment (or CAD for obj. sec. ; that CAD can be from IA13 if you want some units with Tzeentch covenant).
With 7-8 heavy slots, you'll be good. If taking the ordnance devotion, a single Purge detachment can be enough.
In any case, with the purge detachment, you can take 2x3 spawns and then only vehicles and artillery! No need to have blobs if you don't want.

DoomMouse suggests Hydras. I think it depends of your gaming group (i'm sure he will agree). Personally, I have not felt the need to include some yet. They are good against flyers (not excellent), but against FMC I'm not sure it's worth it.

In general I would say MSU is the way to go, and if you often play against Tau and Eldar, spam and spam and spam pinning weapons, quad launchers especially with the -Ld. A unit has to test for pinning after each pinning attack, not at the end of the phase. So you can force multiple tests.
Furthermore, for units with 5" barrage weapon, the way multiple barrage works makes the 5" blast a disadvantage when you shoot many at the same time. So earthshakers are excellents, but don't take 1 unit of 3 : take 3 units of 1.

It's difficult to rate these HS units because they are all excellent but different. I would say like Lampedusa about ranking Shakespeare's best plays : it's like weighting dinosaurs; you might find in the end that one is 10 grams heavier than the other, but don't forget that they are all dinosaurs and that the difference is not that much compared to their absolute weight.

I have 4 medusae, so I play them, but sometimes I have felt that 36" is not enough.
The best anti-vehicle unit is the earth shaker imo (but I admit the rapier is equivalent, but there's the range difference); with barrage, you basically get to ignore cover with an ordnance s9 weapon (55 pts...).
The best anti-infantry unit is the quad launcher imo (but I admit the wyvern is equivalent); the quad launcher can also reliably threaten small vehicles, with barrage hitting on side armour with 4 s5 blasts (30pts...).
These units are so good that we shouldn't say all this too loud.

The heavy weapon squads aren't bad but just aren't as good as the rest of these in my opinion due to being much easier to gun down. You could invest in a bunker or something to hide them in, but i'd rather have more rapiers or quad mortars than make the investment personally!

I totally agree with that too. Heavy weapon squads are not worth it, being T3 where artillery are basically T7.

 RenegadeKorps wrote:
Very good advice

I agree with everything said above! There's no stopping a tzeentch colour scheme on any renegades regardless of the rules.

I do get the feeling that we're offering quite competitive advice to a fun list though. Maybe just adopt some of it - you could always introduce a few of the more of the more ruthless units in the army list if you find you're getting stomped by other armies too much

I really like the R+H book - they're a very well internally balanced codex for the most part, and allow a number of different competitive army builds.

I really like the R+H book - they're a very well internally balanced codex for the most part, and allow a number of different competitive army builds.

i agree. I have given a thought to a lot of codices and fw lists before choosing my army (well, except most imperial ones), and I find that this army is the greatest. So many good and different lists to do, great conversion possibilities, good allies matrix, many very good units but no unkillable death star (which is a good thing, though we have our own broken combo in the form of the Unending host). It's a privileged army : you can really play the models you like and still be competitive. Dark Eldars, to name only them, don't have that privilege, and it's a sad thing.

Hey RenegadeKorps, tell him about the detachment exploit where you get obj sec infantry platoons who revive on a 2+ and out flank. And they can get chemical flamers.

(While I think the first benefit of the Unending host apply RAW to obj. sec. units from another detachment too (even ITC accepted it informally), the second benefit is more contentious : ''all units'' should mean by default ''all units of this detachment'' ; so the outflank bonus would apply only to units from the Unending host. Without outflank for the reviving units, the combo is not worth it. Arriving from my side of the table is not worth it. So now I don't use it with a Purge and a CAD, but with two Purge. Still waiting for FW answer though. In any case, the OP said he does not want to play a blob army. -- As for the chemical flamers, they cannot use the Promethium special rule, so it's not really worth taking.)

But yeah, Misunderstood medic, "any friendly unit in the army" can take chemical flamers when you play a Purge detachment, if you wanted some.
Personally, I take chemical flamers on all my vehicles instead of the bolter weapon.

Hey guys, made a new list with all your feedback, here's a new attempt. All vehicles have hull mounted chemical flamers.


Primary Detachment: Purge

HQ
Renegade Command Squad
-Master of Ordnance
-Covenant of Nurgle
-CA for all
-Lascannon

Elites
2x Spawn

HS
Heavy Ordnance Battery
-3x Medusa

2x Strike Battery
-2x Wyvern

Renegade Tank Squadron
-2x Battle Tank w/ Dozer Blade
-Demolisher w/ Dozer Blade

Secondary Detachment: CAD IA13

HQ
Renegade Command Squad
-BoH
-CA
-Autocannon
-Chimera w/ AC and Dozer

Enforcer Cade
-2x Enforcer w/ CA

Troops
2x Veteran Squads
-Plasma gun
-CA
-Chimera w/ AC and Dozer

HS
Hydra

2x Rapier Battery
-3x Rapiers

It looks good!
In terms of Heavy slots, though, the Purge detachment + Ordnance Tyrant make your CAD unnecessary. But maybe you want it for obj. sec.
Also, if not playing zombies, don't bother with Covenant of Nurgle.
If you have have already three medusae (by the way, you should buy them militia training at a flat 10pts cost), I'm not sure demolisher canons on the Leman Russ are necessary. I'd suggest Executioner plasma cannons. Note that ours do not get hot (See Siege of Vraks weapon summary)
Your unit of medusae will be a good place to deploy your warlord.

Is one Hydra going to change anything? (I'm not being rhetorical here, just asking.)

I'll integrate some of those tank changes. While the hydra may not be huge, I mostly play against my necron friend that loves his skimmers, so it will see plenty of use haha.

Oh I see. Yeah against xenos vehicles it has its use.