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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/02 00:20:16
Subject: Improvements to Codex: Harlequins.
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Scuttling Genestealer
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Hello! I've been a fan of the Eldar Harlequins for a long time. I was really excited that they finally got their own codex last year, but was slightly disappointed at how restrictive and flavorless that some of the material was. I'd like to gather some opinions and ideas about updating the codex. Even if you don't play Harlequins yourself, your opinion is still valuable. Whether you want to see sweeping reform or minor fixes here and there matters not; just let me know what you think!
EXPERIMENTAL UPDATES TO WEAPONS:
PRISMATIC CANNON:
Dispersed Mode - Range: 24" - Strength: 5 - AP4 - Heavy 1, Large Blast
Focussed Mode - Range: 24" - Strength: 6 - AP3 - Heavy 1, Blast
Lance Mode - Range: 24" - Strength: 7 - AP2 - Heavy 1, Lance
EXPERIMENTAL UPDATES TO UNITS:
TROUPE:
-Reduce the cost of a basic Troupe unit from 95 points to 70 points.
-Reduce the cost of a Player from 15 points to 12 points.
-Reduce the cost of a Harlequin's Caress from 8 points to 5 points.
-Reduce the cost of a Power Sword from 15 points to 10 points.
-Reduce the cost of a Fusion Pistol from 15 points to 10 points.
-Reduce the cost of a Neuro Disruptor from 10 points to 5 points.
DEATH JESTER:
-Add Plasma Grenades to the Wargear section.
SHADOWSEER:
-Add the Unconstrained Illusion special rule to the Shadowseer profile.
-Add Plasma Grenades to the Wargear section.
-Add the option to purchase a Fusion Pistol for 10 points.
-Reduce the cost of a Neuro Distruptor from 10 points to 5 points.
Unconstrained Illusion: If, when attempting to manifest a Phantasmancy psychic power, you suffer a Perils Of The Warp, you may expend a Warp Chage point to negate it.
SOLITAIRE:
-Add Plasma Grenades to the Wargear section.
SKYWEAVERS:
-Add the Skilled Rider special rule to the Skyweaver profile.
-Reduce the cost of a basic Skyweaver unit from 100 points to 80 points.
-Reduce the cost of a Skyweaver from 50 points to 40 points.
-Reduce the cost to replace a Shuriken Cannon with a Haywire Cannon from 5 points to 0 points.
-Reduce the cost to replace a Star Bola with a Zephyrglaive from 10 points to 0 points.
STARWEAVER:
-Reduce the cost of a basic Starweaver from 70 points to 65 points.
VOIDWEAVER:
-Reduce the cost of a basic Voidweaver from 75 points to 70 points.
-Reduce the cost to replace a Haywire Cannon with a Prismatic Cannon from 5 points to 0 points.
EXPERIMENTAL UNIT ADDITION:
-HQ-
Great Harlequin ... 90 points
WS: 7
BS: 6
S: 3
T: 3
W: 3
I: 8
A: 4
Ld: 10
Sv: -
Unit Type: Infantry (Character)
Unit Composition: 1 (Unique)
WARGEAR:
Holo-Suit
Shuriken Pistol
Close Combat Weapon
Flip Belt
Plasma Grenades
SPECIAL RULES:
Fear
Fearless
Fleet
Furious Charge
Hit & Run
Independent Character
Exemplar Of The Masque
OPTIONS:
May replace Shuriken Pistol with one of following:
-Fusion Pistol ... 10 points
-Neuro Disruptor ... 5 points
May replace Close Combat Weapon with one of the following:
-Harlequin's Caress ... 5 points
-Harlequin's Embrace ... 5 points
-Harlequin's Kiss ... 5 points
-Zephyrglaive ... 10 points
May select any of the following:
-Haywire Grenades ... 5 points
May take one item from the Enigmas Of The Black Library list.
Exemplar Of The Masque: If your Warlord is the Great Harlequin, and you select either the Light, Twilight and Dark Warlord Traits table, then no roll is necessary. You may select up to two Warlord Traits from the same Warlord Traits table. Additionally, all friendly units with the Harlequins Faction that are within 12" of the Great Harlequin (if you selected the Great Harlequin to be your Warlord) has the Fearless special rule.
EXPERIMENTAL UPDATES TO ENIGMAS OF THE BLACK LIBRARY:
As mysterious and unfathomable as the Black Library is, I expected relics on a totally different level of amazing compared to most other codices. Instead, we got served some items so bland and paltry that it felt like Dark Eldar Artifacts Of Cruelty or Tyranid Bio-Artifacts all over again. Considering the high cost of many of these items (relative to what they do) and the high cost of even the most basic models in a Harlequin Masque, I expected more. Here are my ideas to make the Enigmas of the Black Library more interesting and a bit more worthy of being called as much. Any "improvement" was taken directly from the flavor-text about the relic.
Cegorach’s Rose ... 15 points - Great Harlequin, Troupe Master and Solitaire only.
Range: Melee
Strength: User
AP: -
Type: Melee, Death Blossom, Kiss Of Death, Master-Crafted, Shred
Death Blossom: If a non-vehicle model is slain as a result of Instant Death from a Kiss Of Death attack, the enemy unit immediately suffers an additional D3 Strength 6 AP2 hits at the same Initiative Step as the model using this weapon. This special rule has no effect on models with the Eternal Warrior special rule or against Gargantuan Creatures.
Crescendo ... 10 points - Great Harlequin, Troupe Master, and Shadowseer only.
Range: 12"
Strength: 4
AP: 5
Type: Pistol, Bladestorm, Crescendo, Master-Crafted, Shred
Crescendo: Once per game, instead of firing normally, you may fire D3 shots multiplied times the current Game Turn.
EXAMPLE: If it is Game Turn 3, you may use this special rule to fire 3D3 shots. If it is Game Turn 5, you may use this special rule to fire 5D3 shots.
Laughing God’s Eye ... 25 points - Great Harlequin, Troupe Master, Death Jester, Shadowseer and Solitaire.
The model equipped with the Laughing God's Eye has the Adamantium Will special rule. All friendly units that are of the Harlequins Faction within 12” of the model equipped with the Laughing God's Eye also have the Adamantium Will special rule. Additionally, if any enemy psykers within 12” of the model equipped with the Laughing God's Eye attempt to manifest any psychic powers, they can only successfully harness a Warp Charge point on a roll of 5+ instead of the normal 4+. Against special psykers that normally harness a Warp Charge point on a roll lower than a 4+, they still only harness a Warp Charge point on a roll of 5+.
NEW: Mantle Of The Laughing God ... 30 points - Great Harlequin, Death Jester, Shadowseer and Solitaire only.
A model equipped with the Mantle Of The Laughing God loses the Independent Character special rule (if the model had it). A model equipped with the Mantle Of The Laughing God gains the Stealth special rule and Shrouded special rule. Additionally, a model equipped with the Mantle Of The Laughing God may re-roll any failed Cover Saves it makes.
NEW: Reaper's Mirth ... 20 points - Death Jester only.
Shrieker Mode - Range: 24" - Strength: 1 - AP5 - Assault 1, Reaper's Touch, Bladestorm, Master-Crafted, Pinning, Poisoned (2+)
Shuriken Mode - Range: 24" - Strength: 6 - AP5 - Assault 3, Bladestorm, Master-Crafted, Shred
Reaper's Touch: If a non-vehicle model is slain as a result of an attack with this special rule, centre the Large Blast marker over that model before removing the model as a casualty. Units suffer a number of Strength 5 AP4 hits equal to the number of models from that unit that are under the marker. These hits have the Ignores Cover special rule.
[Note: This is the same as the standard Bio-Explosive rule except that it uses a Large Blast instead of a Small Blast.]
Starmist Raiment ... 25 points - Great Harlequin, Troupe Master, Death Jester, Shadowseer and Solitaire.
If a model with the Starmist Raiment runs in the Shooting Phase, it has a 3+ Invulnerable Save until the start of its next Shooting Phase. Additionally, If you ran in the Shooting Phase and you ended your movement within 6” of any enemy units, they must (all) take an Initiative Test or suffer from Blind.
EXAMPLE: Your Troupe Master ran and ended his movement within 6" of two different enemy units. They both must take a Initiative Test at the end of your Shooting Phase. If they fail, they suffer from Blind.
Storied Sword ... 25 points - Great Harlequin and Troupe Master only.
Range: Melee
Strength: +1
AP: 3
Type: Melee, Master-Crafted, Storied
Storied: During your Opening Phase, select one of the following special rules:
-Crusader
-Rage
-Rampage
-Shred
The model equipped with the Storied Sword has the selected special rule until your next Opening Phase.
Mask Of Secrets ... 15 points - Shadowseer only.
Unchanged.
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This message was edited 19 times. Last update was at 2016/11/04 06:29:18
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/02 01:08:32
Subject: Improvements to Codex: Harlequins.
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Fixture of Dakka
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Hello, fellow harlequin player!
Cegorach's Rose: Seems fine. The death blossom is really cool. I would note that I'm not sure this one particularly needs a boost. I take the Rose almost every game (on my Solitaire). Shred goes a long way towards making this wargear worthwhile, and mastercrafted on a kiss of death is a feel-good rule that prevents you from going :\ when your solitaire misses with his most important attack. So your changes seem fine. I'm just not sure they're necessary.
Crescendo: So here are a few points regarding Crescendo. It's really cheap and thus easy to fit into your army. It's really cheap, and thus it doesn't have to be amazing. It's kind of meh because it's best in the hands of a troupe master, and he'd rather run than shoot a lot of the time. So while I like the "shots = turn number" thing (very fitting for its name), I'm not sure these changes are really a great fit. Making it more expensive means I'm less likely to fit it into my army (I could take another harlequin at the points cost you listed), and giving it more firepower (eventually) doesn't change the fact that I'd usually rather run than shoot.
If you really want to change this one, how about treating it as a normal shuriken pistol that, once per game, fires 1d6 shots per current turn number. So you can hold off until turn five or six to become a one-man source of dakka and get to have fun rolling a ton of dice for one guy, but your killing power isn't significantly scarier than, say, a squad of dire avengers.
Laughing God's Eye: 20 points seems a like cheap to pretty much shut down someone's Ahriman or Farseer or what have you. The mechanics themselves seem mostly fine. It's easy enough to kill the guy with the Eye if you need to counter him.
Slight Tangent: I'd really like an artefact or other option that lets my shadow seers throw lots of dice at veil of tears without worrying about killing themselves with perils.
Starmist Raiment: I like the idea of the raiment blinding someone. I don't like the way you've suggested implementing it though. Too many fiddly modifiers, and running a couple inches means most armies will only pass the test on a 1. Consider simplifying to, "At the end of a shooting phase in which the raiment's wearer ran, all enemy units within 6" must make a blind test."
Storied Sword: As with the rose, I already feel the sword is worth its points I usually take it on one of my troupe masters. I like the idea of having the ability to choose a special rule each turn, but some of these options will simply be better than others. You take Crusader if you need to make a long charge, and then you take whichever offensive option is mathematically most useful in a given situation. Rampage is obviously better than Rage if you're charging a large squad and useless if you're charging a small squad. I don't really want to work out the math on whether you take Rage/Rampage or Shred, but I feel they're redundant enough to warrant dropping at least one of those options. You never take soul blaze because you'll do more damage with the other options every time.
So in regards tot eh sword, I think you've got a cool idea, but the boost isn't necessary, and the rules you can choose from have too much redundancy.
Mask of Secrets: Is cool.
OVERALL: I'm not sure I agree with the premise that harlequin artefacts should be buffed or that they need buffed in the first place. Sure, harlies have access to cool toys from the Black Library, but that doesn't mean they should have a bunch of super duper artefacts that outclass everyone else's. I'd be receptive to the idea of artefacts that cost a ton and give big benefits, but at that point you're probably better off writing a whole new list of relics rather than modifying options that are built around being relatively in-line with other books' options.
I'll also note that relics aren't really the source of harlequins' woes. They have a lot of other issues that could be addressed and help them out a lot more than a couple shiny relics. ^_^;
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ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/02 02:36:20
Subject: Improvements to Codex: Harlequins.
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Scuttling Genestealer
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As a disclaimer, nothing that I'm posting is necessary (of course). I've found that my Harlequin Masque performs as is usually to be expected against a vast majority of foes. Honestly, most of the updates I'm proposing are just for the sake of character and flavor. So, there's that.
In response to your thoughts, after everything that I've read about the Harlequins and the Black Library over my decades of playing, I've always felt like they were so unique even among a game system of wildly unique factions. They're just so transfixing, capricious and even mystical. If ever they should've had access to special and exotic war artifacts, I expected them to be second-to-none. What the current codex presents to me is, in my opinion, mostly over-costed drudgery that is not unique nor powerful.
That being said...
Cegorach's Rose: I'm glad you like the "Death Blossom" idea. I actually stole the name from the unique Red Mage Weaponskill from Final Fantasy XI. A crazy awesome (probably magical) rose sort of appears and explodes out of the target. I imagine in a Warhammer 40,000 universe, it'd be less magical and rife with arterial blood spray and gore, instead.
Crescendo: I meant to propose to increase the points cost from 5 to 10; not 15. I was in a hurry when I typed these. Other than that, I like your idea WAY more. I feel like the weapon and the special rule are now much more in sync. I know that 90% of the time my own units are running about the field, but every now and then I do find myself to be very close to a target (in which failing a charge would be almost statistically impossible), so I wouldn't mind shooting at all in that case. Or I'm just trying to fill points.
Laughing God's Eye: I thought it was a little cheap myself. Maybe 25 or 30 points, instead? Also, after seeing the rules for the Sisters of Silence, I don't feel bad one iota about wanting to beef up the Laughing God's Eye considerably. My ideas are meager compared to their anti-psyker capabilities.
Starmist Raiment: I'm glad you think it's fluffy. The only reason I'd counter-argue in this instance is that:
A) It's not hard to remember how many inches you ran.
B) Running is completely variable. If you always ran a fixed amount, I think I'd change it to become a simplified Blind test. I just felt that the way I wrote this completely encapsulated the character of the Starmist Raiment.
C) I felt like the 6" radius was enough balance to keep it from blinding entire armies that were packed too closely.
D) It only works if you run. Just like the regular Starmist Raiment!
Mask Of Secrets: Is always cool. Maybe you could amend the item to include some sort of rule that would allow your Shadowseer to attempt to manifest psychic powers without any fear of Warp-born perils?
Storied Sword: This is one thing that I have to argue about. The Storied Sword, as is, is complete and utter trash. 25 points for a Strength+1 Power Sword is absolute garbage. A Harlequin's Caress is much better for only 8 points.
You seem to have picked apart the special rules exactly as I would have intended for them to be used. Crusader when you need to cover more ground, Rage if you're charging, Rampage if you're out-numbered, Shred if you NEED to put wounds on something and Soul Blaze just for gaks. If I had to drop any of them, I suppose I would drop Soul Blaze.
I will amend my first post to include these changes.
I will also agree with you that Enigmas of the Black Library aren't the problem; they're more of a drab fluff-related issue for me. It was an easy point to jump into the idea of codex-crafting.
What ideas would you propose as a fix or update to the Harlequins?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/02 03:57:39
Subject: Improvements to Codex: Harlequins.
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Fixture of Dakka
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I'd still argue the initiative penalty on the starmist raiment is a bit unpleasant. Orks and 'crons are accustomed to failing their initiative tests, but you're usually going to be causing armies like marines and even eldar to fail that Initiative test on a 2+ Remember, fleet means that you're likely to run 4 or 5 inches. Seems like a bit of a feel bad rule for your opponent. Having a chance to blind at all is reward enough in my opinion.
I could rant for a while about the current challenges for harlequins and how to fix them, but I'll try to keep things brief:
PROBLEMS
* They're squishy with limited ability to not be squishy. They can't really beta strike like dark eldar. They can't easily get a save versus shooting better than 4+, and psykers have a bit of trouble using the buffs meant to protect them at a range.
*To expand on the psyker thing, shadowseers are meant to keep us alive. It used to be that Veil of Tears was automatically on all the time without needing to cast it. Now, we can't throw more than a couple dice at Veil, Dance of Shadows, Shrouded, etc. without worrying about perilsing our expensive shadowseers. Additionally, we can't use psychic protection while embarked on vehicles. This means we either have to go without veil/dance/shrouded while in our transports or else we have to footslog across the table. The latter doesn't sound so bad considering our speed and warlord traits, but it means we're likely to spend an extra round or two trying to get into melee range while praying that we don't fail our psychic tests or kill our 'seers with psychic tests.
*Lack of alpha/beta strike. This is the flip side of the first point. We lack the ability to properly hide/survive in the early game if we want to retain our mobility, but we also struggle to meaningfully reach out and shut down threats until we get into melee. This has less to do with our short range and more to do with our limited access to FA and HS units outside of specific formations. If we could run a CAD or something, we could probably spam enough skyweavers and voidweavers to put a good dent in the enemy on turn 1.
FIXES AND WISHLISTING
* Give us a ghost helm equivalent. I don't mind blowing a few warpcharges to keep my head from exploding, but shadowseers should really *not* be dying from perils. It's as unfluffy as it is mechanically problematic. On that note, we should arguably be able to use Sanctic without perilsing on doubles as well. Harlies are sort of kind of the eldar counterpart to grey knights.
* Give us a more flexible detachment. I like the Masque a lot, but the limited access to FA and HS makes it difficult to put in the firepower and vehicle spam that might shore up some of our major weaknesses. Cheaper, easier to field formations for vehicle/bike support might do the trick.
* We're meant to be sneaky, and we only kind of are. The warlord traits that let you be sneaky don't always come up, and failing to get some scout/infiltrate action can render your army without a decent delivery system. The psychic powers that let us be sneaky... well, see above. Some means of upping our defenses in the early game would be great. Perhaps a shadowseer formation that grants army-wide veil of tears (no casting required) for the first turn. Or maybe something like the striking scorpions' rule where they gain shrouded (on top of stealth) until they shoot/stab something. They're in "stealth mode."
As a pet idea, I kind of like the idea of an army-wide "dance" mechanic similar to canticles. Basically, each dance would have a couple "stages." You'd start in the first stage until you declared you were advancing to the next stage on the start of your turn. So you might see something like...
THE DANCE OF RED LAUGHTER
STAGE 1-THE SABLE VEIL: The show has started, but the enemy doesn't know it. The harlequins approach. All units of the harlequin faction in your army have the shrouded rule until they make a shooting attack (including witchfire attacks) or swing in the assault phase.
STAGE 2- MIRTH AND DISCORD:The curtain is drawn. The foe is dazzled by the sudden, glittering appearance of the harlequins. During the assault phase, all succesful to-hit rolls against units of the harlequin faction that charged that turn must be rerolled.
STAGE 3- SILENCE AND BETRAYAL: You pull the trigger, but it isn't the eldar you've fired upon. A friend falls dead before you. At the end of each assault phase, select one enemy unit that was locked in combat at the beginning of the assault phase but is now unengaged. You may force that unit to immediately snap shoot at another unengaged enemy unit within range and line of sight (using weapons of the harlequin player's choice.)
So it helps you survive on the way in, helps you survive if you charge, and lets you do some shenanigans on the way out.
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ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/02 05:00:27
Subject: Improvements to Codex: Harlequins.
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Scuttling Genestealer
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To be honest, I forgot all about Fleet. That being said, I'm still sold on the idea on penalizing the Initiative of the enemy somehow.
To address you ideas about the Harlequin Masque detachment, specifically:
-You could improve the Command Benefits of the Harlequin Masque by adding Consummate Performance as a standard bonus..? It's not huge, but it definitely wouldn't hurt to have it.
-Increase the amount of Fast Attack options from 2 to 4.
-Increase the amount of Heavy Support options from 1 to 2.
-Add a HQ option, the Great Harlequin?
Shadowseer:
Add a special rule, Unconstrained Illusion: If, when attempting to manifest a Phantasmancy psychic power, you suffer a Perils Of The Warp, you may expend a Warp Chage point to negate it.
Also...
I LOVE your "dance" idea. Yes, yes, yes. Yes! It's brilliant. Can you come up with a few more?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 0045/11/02 07:39:10
Subject: Re:Improvements to Codex: Harlequins.
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Hellion Hitting and Running
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How to fix harlequins:
Hero's path: remove restriction on not being able to join other unites.
Cegorach's jest: must take starweaver instead of void weaver.
Cast of players: death jester and shadow seer can leave troupe.
Remove all the restrictions from the deathmasque formations, people would actually take them if they weren't locked in equipment.
The biggest problem I have with harlequins is how restrictive it is. You can't really build how you want. With those changes I think harlequins would be really strong.
But as it stands there are only 7 different unites in the whole codex. I just wish they would have added more, or more options.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/02 09:07:51
Subject: Re:Improvements to Codex: Harlequins.
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Fixture of Dakka
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lambsandlions wrote:How to fix harlequins:
Hero's path: remove restriction on not being able to join other unites.
Cegorach's jest: must take starweaver instead of void weaver.
Cast of players: death jester and shadow seer can leave troupe.
Remove all the restrictions from the deathmasque formations, people would actually take them if they weren't locked in equipment.
The biggest problem I have with harlequins is how restrictive it is. You can't really build how you want. With those changes I think harlequins would be really strong.
But as it stands there are only 7 different unites in the whole codex. I just wish they would have added more, or more options.
I was thinking about the same thing, They are almost just right, I am currently enjoying them a lot and would need much to make them feel like a full force. Removing some Restrictions and adding a couple more options and maybe a "resistant" model would be great.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/02 13:04:03
Subject: Improvements to Codex: Harlequins.
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
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Removing the Hero's Path restrictions is more of a buff to Craftworld Eldar than anything else, handing Shroud out willy-nilly and putting Veil of Tears in Wraithguard with no downside is a bit over the top.
I'd like to see an HQ choice and a less restrictive Masque detachment, bike-mounted characters, more weapon options for pretty much everyone, and (tentatively) some kind of price drop for Troupes and their weapons, make it feel less like I need Craftworld allies/shuricannon spam to play the game.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/02 13:13:04
Subject: Improvements to Codex: Harlequins.
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Fixture of Dakka
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AnomanderRake wrote:Removing the Hero's Path restrictions is more of a buff to Craftworld Eldar than anything else, handing Shroud out willy-nilly and putting Veil of Tears in Wraithguard with no downside is a bit over the top.
I'd like to see an HQ choice and a less restrictive Masque detachment, bike-mounted characters, more weapon options for pretty much everyone, and (tentatively) some kind of price drop for Troupes and their weapons, make it feel less like I need Craftworld allies/shuricannon spam to play the game.
Not if the Hero's Path rule said Faction(or codex) Harlequin.
And yes I would Love to see bike options on hq style characters.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/02 13:13:14
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/02 20:39:12
Subject: Improvements to Codex: Harlequins.
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Hellion Hitting and Running
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AnomanderRake wrote:Removing the Hero's Path restrictions is more of a buff to Craftworld Eldar than anything else, handing Shroud out willy-nilly and putting Veil of Tears in Wraithguard with no downside is a bit over the top.
I'd like to see an HQ choice and a less restrictive Masque detachment, bike-mounted characters, more weapon options for pretty much everyone, and (tentatively) some kind of price drop for Troupes and their weapons, make it feel less like I need Craftworld allies/shuricannon spam to play the game.
I think it would be a great buff for dark eldar (which needs a little love) but would have little effect on craft world eldar other than making reapers a lot better. I don't see wraith guard suddenly becoming a mainstay thanks to stealth and shrouding. The shadow seer and death jester would make banshees and scorpions better but normal harlequins are better than both of those units so people would just ally a whole troupe. For dark eldar however, the shadow seer and death jester would give a huge boost to grotesques, infinite, even beast masters.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/03 00:27:31
Subject: Improvements to Codex: Harlequins.
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Fixture of Dakka
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radarbabyeater wrote:To be honest, I forgot all about Fleet. That being said, I'm still sold on the idea on penalizing the Initiative of the enemy somehow.
I LOVE your "dance" idea. Yes, yes, yes. Yes! It's brilliant. Can you come up with a few more?
Starmist Raiment: I guess the question boils down to this: Do you want 99% of enemies to have only a 1 in 6 chance of not being blinded? Because outside of fairly unlucky run rolls, that's what an initiative penalty based on run distance is going to do to anything with lower initiative than an autarch. Even a mere -1 to initiative means orks/'crons/tau fail 5/6ths of the time, geqs fail 2/3rds of the time, and meqs fail half the time. In my eyes, having the chance to blind someone with a run move followed by a charge is nice by itself. Lowering your opponent's initiative seems like a bit of a feelbad rule. "Here's a rule that makes you suck in the assault we're about to do. You ignore it with an Initiative test, so I have a rule that makes you suck at that too."
I'd just go with the blind part and drop the initiative penalty. The penalty takes this from a relatively short and sweet blind test to a somewhat clunky affair that will make your opponent go. :\
As for other dances ("Saedath?"), here are a couple thoughts off the top of my head:
VAUL'S DECEIT (page 45 of the codex)
Stage 1- The Sun Prince's Charge: A brilliant host dashes towards the foe, their radiance and speed making them as ephemeral as light itself. All harlequin units in the army gain +1 to their invulnerable saves. This increases to a +2 if they run or move flatout.
Stage2- The Truth Discovered: Good faith is betrayed. The light only served to cast deeper shadows in which to hide. Any harlequin units that arrive from reserves this turn may opt to do so via outflank or deepstrike (even if they weren't in outflank or deepstrike reserves). Until the start of the next harlequin turn, harlequins that arrived via deepstrike this turn gain Preferred Enemy and may reroll to-penetrate rolls and haywire rolls of 1. (That was wordy. Did it come across clearly?)
Stage 3- Khaine's Outrage: A false sword in the light, a true sword in the darkness, and a god betrayed. The shadows and the light merge into a scarlet glow that falls upon the war god's victim. Choose a single enemy unit at the start of each turn. That unit is the target of Khaine's Wrath. Harlequin units may reroll failed to-hit, to-pen, and to-wound rolls against the subject of Khaine's wrath.
DESIGNER'S NOTE: So the idea here (in addition to emulating the description of the Saedath from the codex) is to pull off a particularly nasty betastrike. Your squishy clowns that start the game on the table are going to take a beating, but they can reduce that beating by focusing on mobility (earning a +2 invul save). Your other clowns gain a big mobility boost by gaining outflank/deepstrike even if they didn't have it already. They also hit harder on the turn they arrive making this a decent way to deliver a bunch of fusion pistol or death jester shots from the safety of an outflanking star weaver. The third stage lets you continue to hit harder (hopefully making up for your staggered arrival) but only against a single target. See that guy? Yeah, that guy. Go mess up that guy. So tldr; ouch-but-less-ouch, hooray for beta strikes!, choose a thing to make dead.
THREE TALES OF THREE DEATHS
Stage 1- A Death at Dawn: She was so young. She died so soon. None expected so early a passing. All units of the harlequin faction in your army double the range of their ranged weapons. All harlequin units in your army gain precision shot and precision strike.
Stage 2- A Death Beneath the Sun: He was in his prime. A figure imposing. A talent respected. But death does not spare the mighty. At the end of each harlequin assault phase, any death jester locked in combat may immediately shoot at an enemy unit containing a character, walker, or MC locked in the same combat as though both the jester and the target were not locked in combat. Cover saves may be taken against these attacks.
Stage 3- A Death Long Coming: Night falls. Centuries spent evading the Morai-Heg have only given her time to stitch a more spectacular demise into the skein. One use only. Death Jesters in your army fire a number of additional shots with their shrieker cannons equal to the turn number.
DESIGNER'S NOTE: So I heard you like death jesters. Stage 1 gives you a bit of alpha strike potential but doesn't actually increase your overall firepower. Stage 2 I'm less certain of. It's supposed to let you benefit from your death jesters by either shooting twice in a given turn or by shooting once on a turn that you ran and charged. Plus you can potentially use clever positioning to snipe enemies out of challenges or bio-explode key models. Stage 3 is a last burst of firepower. You get a big shooting boost on any jesters still alive, but you don't receive any other Saedath benefits for the rest of the game.
Something like those maybe? Just spitballing.
Regarding Harlequin HQs:
I'm not a big fan of the idea of making a Great Harlequin HQ. At least not anymore. Before the new codex, I'd have been all for it. Now, however, they've really played up the idea that a GH is exceedingly rare (up their with a Solitaire in terms of rarity) and exceptionally powerful. If he becomes our go-to HQ, then he'll be showing up in pretty much every harlequin list, thus detracting greatly from this supposed rarity. I'd rather see him be a LoW that you can take by himself in a formation. I also like the idea of said formation giving you a list of "tricks" he can choose from and use during the battle. Things like "Psyche! That was just an illussion. I'm actually NOT dead," or, "Oh, hey, by sacrificing all but one of my attacks this turn, I can reroll all failed invul saves." He should be less offensively powerful than a Solitaire but have a better ability to harass the enemy or serve as a force multiplier.
If we really want an HQ option, I suggest making it identical to a troupe unit. Simple as that. it's a harlequin troupe unit that occupies an HQ slot and maybe gets some sort of benefit when generating powers off of one of the harlequin warlord trait tables. So in a CAD, this unit is literally just the troupe master chosen to lead the Saedath and his squad of pals.
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ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/03 03:35:10
Subject: Improvements to Codex: Harlequins.
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Scuttling Genestealer
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Solitaires are supposedly exceedingly rare, but ya' know... they're basically in every list. I agree with your thoughts about how a Great Harlequin could be set up and I have a few ideas floating around my head to go about doing it. Let me get some stuff together and I'll post later.
To everyone else making suggestions about the detachment and the formations and commenting about their restrictive nature... I will update my original post later with some ideas and you can let me know what you think.
Wyld, if you're super bored, do you want to scour the internetz and find as many different saedeth as you can? I think you're on to something that is totally unique and awesome and definitely screams "This is what Harlequins are all about."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/03 03:58:39
Subject: Improvements to Codex: Harlequins.
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Fixture of Dakka
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I'm not sure there's really a lot in the way of Saedeth to really find. I think the term itself is new to the recent codex (I don't recall hearing it before that), and any references to Saedeth names probably don't paint as vivid a picture of what they actually entail as Vaul's Deceit. It would be awesome to stat them up if there is a treasure trove of Saedeth descriptions out there though. A better bet is probably to just convert well-known elday myths into Saedeth.
Regarding great harlies as HQs, I worry that there's a difference between an Elite that you can take or leave as you choose and an HQ who is the only way to unlock a CAD or allied Detachment, both of which solve a lot of harlequin army composition problems. So while it's unfluffy for a Solitaire to be all over the place (he's just so much fun!), at least he's still pretty optional unless you just really really wanted to run the Hero's Path for the 'Jester and 'Seer.
That's mostly personal bias though. I really like the idea of a Lord of War great harlequin that you take for his trickery rather than his stabbing power.
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ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/03 04:42:02
Subject: Improvements to Codex: Harlequins.
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Scuttling Genestealer
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I updated the OP with a Great Harlequin entry and various updates on all units currently in Codex: Harlequins. Also, I did change the effect of the Starmist Raiment as per your feedback.
Check it out and give me your thoughts.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/03 05:21:04
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/03 14:32:21
Subject: Improvements to Codex: Harlequins.
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
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There's a bit of redundancy as written; the Aerial Assault keyword you've given the vehicles doesn't actually do anything, the Fast type does all of that already. Also writing the Exemplar traits down as three separate entries seems like needless confusion when they could be replaced with "Exemplar: The Great Harlequin may choose his Warlord Trait from any of the Codex: Harlequins tables instead of rolling normally. Harlequin units within 12" of the Great Harlequin are Fearless."; I'd suggest changing the aura rule between the three different iterations or combining them back into one. Will get back to you with a more detailed look at the points costs.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
On points:
Troupe: My closest points of comparison are Bloodbrides and Banshees; 12-13pts looks like a decent ballpark estimate for each model. I'm less sure about keeping +20pts for the Troupe Master; Exarchs in the Craftworld book are almost the same upgrade (+1 WS, BS, W, I, A, but +armour (sometimes) instead of +Ld) at +10pts. On that basis I'd recommend starting the Troupe at 70pts.
Pistol costs look good, I'm going to reexamine the costs of the melee weapons (not sure about at least +5pts each, but I haven't done enough of the math to say what they should be).
I'd give the character models plasma grenades for free; it seems like an odd oversight that they don't have them already given that every other Harlequin does, and +5pts for an upgrade that's included in pretty much every other Eldar model seems weird.
The Skyweaver cost cuts look like they've gone too deep; my best point of comparison is two Cloud Dancers, one of which is a Felarch with a power lance, with a single shuriken cannon. That comes to 75pts; the Skyweaver is losing one attack, a 3+ save, an extra twin-linked shuriken catapult, Outflank, and d6+6" assault-phase redeployment for one better AP on the melee upgrade weapon, a 5+ Invul and Mirage Launchers, Skilled Rider, and Furious Charge. The Cloud Dancer Felarch upgrade may be overpriced, but I could make the same point with the 44pts you need for two Craftworld jetbikes with one shuriken cannon (who lose out on Skilled Rider, WS, Attacks, Zephyrglaives, and Invuls by comparison).
I'd say start the Skyweaver at 45pts and make the Zephyrglaive a +5pt option (or start at 40/+10pt option); they're not that overpriced right now.
(Just rechecked Skyweavers with Zephyrglaives against Shining Spears; by comparison to two Shining Spears a Skyweaver has +1A, +1WS, +1I, no cover when not jinking, S5/AP2 charging/S3/AP3 not versus S6/AP3 charging/S3/AP3 not, three S6/AP5 pseudo-rending shots at 24" range instead of two S6/AP3 Lance shots at 6" range or four twin-linked S4/AP5 pseudo-rending shots at 12" range, and a 4+/5++ instead of a 3+. The two look close enough to comparable that I'm sticking with my 50pt Skyweaver/Zephyrglaive estimate.)
Following on with the character jetbike idea I'm not coming up with a short answer to the logic of putting a Death Jester on the back of a Skyweaver, but having the option to do it with a Great Harlequin or Shadowseer is entertaining enough.
Skyweaver: A character mounted on a Skyweaver gains +1T, +1W, +1A, a 4+ armour save, Skilled Rider, Mirage Launchers, and a Shuriken Cannon. A Great Harlequin may purchase this option for +45pts, a Shadowseer may purchase this option for +35pts (costs based on guesses from comparing the two to Autarch/Farseer profiles, may need a recheck from the Shadowseer/Warlock question).
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2016/11/03 15:48:48
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/03 18:26:04
Subject: Improvements to Codex: Harlequins.
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Scuttling Genestealer
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Okay, I updated my OP based on your feedback. Sometime my mind slips with all of these thoughts floating around.
I changed the Exemplar Of The Masque special rule and just rolled the +20 points cost into the base cost of the Great Harlequin and changed the functionality of the special rule. Now, you simply provide a 12" Fearless bubble to friendly Harlequins Faction units and pick 2 Warlord Traits as long as they're from the same table. I think +20 points may be to little... let me know what you think.
I did increase the points cost of Skyweavers back up to 40 points from 35 points. I'm still not sold on forcing the Skyweaver or Voidweaver to pay for weapon exchanges. If we were paying points simply to add a new weapon to either units existing arsenal, I'd be fine with tacking on points. However, all we're doing is exchanging one weapon for another.
As for allowing certain characters to ride Skyweavers, I think it's a dandy idea and I'll definitely consider it in the future, but for now, I don't want to touch that topic; I'd rather work on what is already existing that to keep on adding new units to make Codex: Craftworld Eldar even better.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/03 18:58:49
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/04 00:35:18
Subject: Improvements to Codex: Harlequins.
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Fixture of Dakka
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PRISMATIC CANNON: I like this as a standalone weapon. It's much closer to what I expected after reading the weapon's description the first time. A smaller prism cannon but still good enough at its various jobs to be effective. My only concern is this: the haywire cannon is already kind of bad at synergizing with the shuriken cannons on a voidweaver. The main reason you take it over a prism cannon is that it's more effective against vehicles. Your prismatic cannon synergizes with shuriken weapons even better than the official prismatic cannon, and it's nearly as likely to score a glancing/penetrating hit against a target as a haywire cannon while also having a chance at blowing them up entirely with its AP2. So against most targets, it's roughly as good at destroying vehicles as the haywire cannon while also being strictly better against all non-vehicular targets.
So I like it in a vacuum, but it presents internal balance issues.
SHRIEKER CANNON: Nah. Too much. Fleshbane and AP3 make our "shooty" infantry jester curiously good at killing off normally very durable targets (a couple jesters become amazingly good at tossing a few wounds on a wraith knight). The sweeping harvest rule seems likely to lead to a few disputes about how exactly someone is required to move in the charge phase and pile-in steps and makes the jester surprisingly good at clearing out entire marine squads by himself. All this melee buffing allows for cool mental imagery, but it's also a HUGE boost to the Jester's killing power at no indicated price increase.
Also, I'm oddly not a fan of making this particular harlequin better in combat. It somewhat diminishes his role as "the shooty guy," it presents yet another special weapon to remember and resolve in the assault phase, and it ups his squad's melee power so much that I might not be able to hide in combat when I want to.
Consider tying all these boosts to a super duper special shrieker cannon relic with a big price tag attached? That way, players still have the option to field their death-tastic jester, but you won't have to up the cost/killing of every single death jester in the army.
PLASMA GRENADES: I always interpreted flip belts as making assault grenades unnecessary.
TROUPERS: The pistols probably deserve a points decrease because they're absurdly expensive on a fragile platform and tend to kill off squadmates with Explodes results (in the case of the fusion pistol). The harlequin special weapons probably don't need a price reduction, but whatevs. The powersword (and all power weapons everywhere in every codex) probably deserve the price reduction. I'm not a fan of making the base trouper cost lower. I know they're fragile, but they also hit quite hard. I'd much rather see them get a wargear boost or a special rule that justifies their high cost rather than see more of them on the table. Compare to marines who are supposed to be mini-bosses but instead attack in droves because of mediocre stats and progressively lower cost per model.
SHADOWSEER: I like these changes.
SKYWEAVERS: I think I like these for the most part. I'm not sure Bolas (which I consider to be pretty bad) should be the same cost as glaives (which I consider to be pretty good), but a general price reduction and skilled rider are exactly what they need. I really like the rules for these things! But running them with haywire cannons and glaives makes them ridiculously expensive for a 2W model that can't get better than 4+ save without outside help.
STARWEAVER: This change feels fiddly to me. A 5 point price reduction will not fix any perceived deficiencies in the unit. Instead, I'd rather leave the cost as-is and find some way to help it out. Some sort of Saedath or formation bonus to help them survive would go a long way. I also like the idea of mounting more types of weapons on them. A fusion gun, for instance, would synergize nicely with a troupe riding inside it. Zip forward, disembark away from the target, blow the target up with the fusion gun, run the harlies towards the disembarked crew, and then charge in.
VOIDWEAVER: Again, I'm not a fan of a 5 point price reduction on things like vehicles. Those 5 points you save are unlikely to suddenly make the voidweaver worth it. Things like your changes to the prismatic cannon or formation/Saedath benefits that allow them to alpha/beta strike better will help them make back their points rather than dying like jerks. I wouldn't mind giving these guys (and all dark eldar vehicles) access to some wargear that lets them make assault moves in the assault phase. JSJ is very fluffy for such mobile gun boats.
GREAT HARLEQUIN: I really like these rules. I just don't like them for a "great harlequin", implied to be Cegorach incarnate. I say keep the rules and rename him as a "star performer" or "diva" or "Masque Master" or something. I like him a lot as an especially potent harlequin (possibly made more powerful by virtue of being the focus of the mystical narrative woven by the saedath?) I don't really buy him as an eldar god incarnate though.
I really like his warlord trait rule. The harlequin warlord traits are some of the coolest things in our generally very cool codex. Being able to pick the perfect two for the situation goes a long way towards helping us out. One note on this rule is that, as worded, I could technically take two random powers from one of the BRB tables instead of two chosen powers from the harlequin tables.
Starmist Raiment: I like this.
Storied Sword: I'm still not sold on having 3 of the 4 options be some variation on "stab them more," but this is fine.
Laughing God's Eye: In the interest of not denying people their own shinies, how would you feel about a slight nerf to this? Specifically, how would you feel about letting models that normally harness warp charges on a 3+ or better instead harness on a 4+? So if you invested points in a model or formation that harnesses on a 3+ or 2+, you're still getting a benefit. You're just also still being penalized by the relic. This way, everyone gets to enjoy their toys.
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ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/04 01:59:59
Subject: Improvements to Codex: Harlequins.
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Scuttling Genestealer
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I can agree with a lot of those ideas. Let me get some work done and I'll update the OP in a little bit.
-Plasma Grenades are mostly redundant with Flip Belts. But, I guess you could throw them or something? Troupes have them. It seemed very strange that nobody else in the Harlequin Masque did, though.
-I removed the melee profile from the Shrieker Cannon.
-I added the Mantle Of The Laughing God and the Reaper's Mirth to the Enigmas Of The Black Library section.
-I changed the effect of the Laughing God's Eye a little bit to make it slightly less potent.
-I adjusted the Strength on all firing modes of the Prismatic Cannon. It's less competitive with the Haywire Cannon for destroying vehicles now. It's still better at killing infantry than it ever was but less so than a Eldar Prism Cannon.
-The only Troupe close combat weapon that took a price reduction was the Harlequin's Caress from 8 points to 5 points.
-About Starweavers... how about a rule that would allow Troupes to spring out of the Starweaver even if it was moving at very high speeds?
-About Voidweavers... I don't really know what to do with them. Always fire the Aft Weapon at full BS? I don't know.
-I re-read what I wrote for the Exemplar Of The Masque special rule and there is absolutely no way for you to get BRB Warlord Traits out of that. Maybe you read something before I changed it.
-I toned down Crescendo a little bit.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/11/04 06:29:47
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