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Hey everybody,

I have managed to snag these sets for West Germany - I was wondering if I should get any more specific sets, or if this is a good start.

Kampgruppe Muller (5x Leopard 2 and 2x PAH helos)
Marder Zug
Lucks Spah Trupp
Fuchs Transport
M109G Artillery Batterie

Fliegerfaust Gruppe
Panzergrenadier Zug

Leopard rulebook, token set, template

I was thinking some more MBT's (Leopard I maybe?) or dedicated AA in a Flakpanzer batterie. I like to assemble and paint an army all at once so I'd like to have everything I will need for a good force. I'm not averse to buying a couple more units if anyone things I need them.

The kit can be a bit fiddly, but the Gepard is a decent AA asset; it does an okay job at its intended role, but it's also murderous against soft-skinned vehicles such as the BMP. Since you need at least one AA asset to field the Fliegerfaust gruppe, I'd recommend them over the Roland just for versatility.

The Leo 1 and Leo 2 I don't believe mix outside of Panzertruppen; I'd have to go back and check the chart to see if you can take Leo 2s as divisional support for an aufklärungs unit (you might be able to and my memory is just horrid). I like the Leo 1 because of playing too much World of Tanks, so I'd pick it up regardless but it could be bordering on "Stuff for the Stuff God" territory.

In terms of other things beyond the Gepards, another Panzergrenadier Zug and set of Marder transports would give you some good versatility to go for an infantry-heavy force and they port over to the Fuchs if you'd rather do more with Leo 1s and the wheeled units. I've not felt the need for more than the 5 Leo 2s because even that is more than half your points in a standard game.

I'd defer anything else to someone who's done more than scrimmage the force against themselves though.

Leopard 1s are very cheap but still hit hard. You can easily afford to include one in your army.

Having two AA sources is not a bad idea, especially since if it's gun AA it can roll forward to chew up light or medium vehicles, or to pin infantry, meanwhile the other one deters hinds from hitting you. With only 1 AA unit, a full unit of 6 hinds still has a decent chance of getting the jump on a key unit with enough left over to cause serious damage. In my last game even 4 rapiers with RoF 3 couldn't down enough hinds, and thus 1-2 bailed out tanks can often mean the death

If you don't already have it, get an additional two helos to have a full 4 tow shots when they fire. Remember that you're firing 1 shot for each helo a turn against some pretty large units that the Soviets field.

I also posed the same question on the TY FB group and the overwhelming opinion is to get two boxes of Gepard Flakpanzers for AA and Light Antitank role, and a box of Jaguars.

So it seems like:
2 x Gepard
1 x Jaguar

and possibly
1 x additional Marder set
1 x additional Panzergrenadiers

And to field my Fuchs,
1 x Panzertruppen Supplement
1 x Leopard 1 set
1 x more Fuchs set

Hey guys what do you think of this army list

Leopard 2 Panzerkompanie
Leopard 2 Panzer Kompanie HQ
Leopard 2 Panzer Zug (2)
Marder Panzergrenadier Zug (3)
Leopard 2 Panzer Zug (2)

Jaguar 1 Jagdpanzer Zug (3)
Luchs Spah Trupp (2)
Luchs Spah Trupp (2)
M109 Panzerartillerie Batterie (3)
Gepard Flakpanzer Batterie (4)
Fliegerfaust Gruppe (4)

PAH Anti-tank Helicopter Flight (2)

Total: 99 points

While 2 recon works, 1 recon will be fine. If you can go up to 4 helicopters that will work better since with so much Soviet AA or guided missiles on the table, you're going to lose 1-2 very quickly as soon as they're on the table.

Unless if course, you go AA hunting with your recon.

I finagled the lists a little bit and I came up with this. Two different 100 point lists.

Leopard 2 Panzerkompanie

1x Leopard 2 HQ
2x Leopard 2
3x Marder Panzergrenadier
2x Leopard 2
2x Jaguar 1
2x Luchs
3x M109
4x Gepard
4x PAH

Total: 100 points


... OR ...

Marder Panzergrenadier Kompanie no. 1
1 x Marder HQ
3 x Marder Panzergrenadiers
3 x Leopard 2
2 x Luchs
4 x Gepard
4 x Redeye Team
SubTotal 56 points

Marder Panzergrenadier Kompanie no. 2
1 x Marder HQ
3 x Marder Panzergrenadiers
2 x Leopard 2
3 x Jaguar 1
3 x M109G
2 x Luchs
SubTotal 44 points

Total: 100 points

I can field either army, and the only thing I need to buy is another Marder Zug and Panzergrenadiers pack (in addition to the Gepards and Jaguars I already ordered, lol)

One thing I have found with games against Germans is that the Leopards are nasty. Their gun is deadly, pop go the T72s if you leave them in LOS of them!

I would make sure you have enough AA to protect them, one way to get to the Leopards is with Hinds and air strikes.

 Pacific wrote:
One thing I have found with games against Germans is that the Leopards are nasty. Their gun is deadly, pop go the T72s if you leave them in LOS of them!

I would make sure you have enough AA to protect them, one way to get to the Leopards is with Hinds and air strikes.

Hopefully the 4 Gepards will protect 'em. And the 4 additional Redeye teams if I field them as Panzergrenadier Companies