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Let's be honest: The only time you see a Daemon Prince without wings is because you got it through the rare Dark Apotheosis roll. 40 points to turn a 160+ point MC into a FMC is an autotake for most intents and purposes. However, outside of Flying Circus/Tetrad shenanigans, one doesn't really see Princes that much. Some of that could just be because they don't have that much customization available to them, but that could be me.

Thoughts:
A Daemon Prince is 135 points base. Wings are 75 points base. (This makes them 10 points cheaper but the Wings 35 points pricier.)
A Daemon Prince automatically has the option to Deep Strike by default.
A Daemon Prince is armed with a Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, and Power Armor. ("Was once a Mortal Champion"). No grenades though.

The Daemon Prince may take any options from the Chaos Space Marine armory, including Bikes/Mounts/Jump Packs. (Doomrider! Foulspawn!)
Bikes/Mounts/Jump Packs cost an extra +10 points for a Daemon Prince. They are mutually exclusive with Wings.
A Daemon of a particular god counts as having that God's Mark for purposes of taking restricted Wargear; for example, a Prince with Daemon of Khorne could take a Juggernaut.
The Daemon Prince may take up to 50 points of Gifts from Codex: Chaos Daemons.
The Daemon Prince may take a Relic from either Codex: Chaos Space Marines or Codex: Chaos Daemons, but not from both.
The Daemon Prince may take up to 3 Mastery Levels for +25 points each. A Daemon of Khorne may not select this option.

Combine the assorted Traitor Legion Relics, Curse of the Wulfen Daemonic Artifacts, etc, and you could get some really kooky combos from it all.

Are there any real kooky combos out there that could break things? I imagine there's the "cute" things and the dangerous things (an Alpha Legion Prince with 2 Combi-Bolters and Hydra's Teeth serving as a "gunship", a Stormbolt Plate Powerfist Bikeprince serving as a Falcon Punch, etc), but little that's truly gamebreaking, especially compared to the equivalent Greater Daemons.

The thing to keep in mind about the Daemon Prince is that it's a melee beast, and Monstrous Creatures only go 6" a turn and can't ride in transports. It doesn't really matter how much you re-price the wings, you're not going to make foot-DPs viable. People are going to pay for the wings right up until the point you price them out of using Daemon Princes entirely.

Also consider that if you're building a Daemon Prince on a budget you're usually better off with a Greater Daemon. The Daemon Prince gives you 3+ armour (which isn't worth that much on the ground) and the ability to mix wings/Mastery levels/different daemonic alignments, but he's going to be more expensive than an equivalently-kitted Greater Daemon and have a weaker statline out of the mix.

Overall, I love the changes, especially the access to Codex: Daemon Rewards. The idea of a Bike MC sounds awesome, or even better a Tz Disc prince

What about the Daemon of X rules?
Are they still mandatory? -I don't think they should have to
Do they cost points? -I think they should all be free

They already have enough customization, and some of the fixes don't make sense (the Daemon Prince is NOT going to carry a Bolt Pistol. Ever. It doesn't make sense they'd even be able to hold and fire it. Then you got Princes riding on Bikes? No).

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They already have enough customization, and some of the fixes don't make sense (the Daemon Prince is NOT going to carry a Bolt Pistol. Ever. It doesn't make sense they'd even be able to hold and fire it. Then you got Princes riding on Bikes? No).

Doomrider was a deamon prince on a bike.

 mew28 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They already have enough customization, and some of the fixes don't make sense (the Daemon Prince is NOT going to carry a Bolt Pistol. Ever. It doesn't make sense they'd even be able to hold and fire it. Then you got Princes riding on Bikes? No).

Doomrider was a deamon prince on a bike.

And based off the rules I've seen he's basically what was a Lord with the Daemon rule on a bike. Exception, not the rule.

Honestly though, how bad would a Bike Prince be compared to what is out there in 40k? With mandatory "Daemon Of", you're looking at a minimum of 165 points (the Slaaneshi variant), which is around the ballpark cost for, say, a Teleporting Dreadknight while lacking the initial punch (double fists, or a Force Greatsword), relative durability (Slightly tougher versus Grav, due to Jink and a 3+, but the DK gets the 2+ save instead), and still not providing the extra Warp Charge. Granted, you have more potential once you kit out further, but still.

The big edgecase would be the Night Lord or World Eater ones due to the Stormbolt Plate or Berzerker Glaive (or an Iron Warrior Bike Prince of Nurgle, perhaps), but other that, what other horrors could one come across? Odd "combos" might include:
-The Sniper: A Cover-camping Alpha Legion Prince of Nurgle, with 2 Combi-Bolters (can fire both due to being a MC) and Hydra's Teeth.
-The Whip: A Night Lord Prince of Slaanesh with the Slaaneshi Greater Reward, and Curze's Orb.
-Shenanigans involving the Infernal Tetrad.

The big problem with a DP on a bike/Juggernaut?
T6. Normally, the one good way to snipe out a Daemon Prince is to hit them with S10, doubling out their Toughness and killing them instantly, or at least denying their FNP if they have Endurance or some other ability. Add in the Infernal Tetrad, and everyone has T7 - That's just too high. And since they can still take 50 points of rewards AND a relic from the CSM book (or the myriad of available supplements), that means all of them are going to have some incredibly overpowered gear setups.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 mew28 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They already have enough customization, and some of the fixes don't make sense (the Daemon Prince is NOT going to carry a Bolt Pistol. Ever. It doesn't make sense they'd even be able to hold and fire it. Then you got Princes riding on Bikes? No).

Doomrider was a deamon prince on a bike.

And based off the rules I've seen he's basically what was a Lord with the Daemon rule on a bike. Exception, not the rule.

That was his old rules from 3rd ed, back then a DP was just a Chaos lord with over a certain amount of points spent on upgrades. If he were reintroduced to 7e (or 8e) then I would assume he would be updated with the appropriate DP statline like the base DP was. (I actually wrote some updated rules for him because people should never forget DOOMRIDER!)

And he was only an exception because GW didn't release any other named DP's.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Waaaghpower wrote:
The big problem with a DP on a bike/Juggernaut?
T6. Normally, the one good way to snipe out a Daemon Prince is to hit them with S10, doubling out their Toughness and killing them instantly, or at least denying their FNP if they have Endurance or some other ability. Add in the Infernal Tetrad, and everyone has T7 - That's just too high. And since they can still take 50 points of rewards AND a relic from the CSM book (or the myriad of available supplements), that means all of them are going to have some incredibly overpowered gear setups.

I personally don't agree that a 300pts+ model should be able to be insta killed. I do agree that codex mixing gets a bit crazy: CSM DPs should get the relics/bikes combos and the Daemon DPs should get rewards and Hellforged artifacts, this would also seperate the DPs who still lead a warband and those who have fully given themselves over to the tides of Chaos Daemons.

50 must have been a typo. I was thinking 30, but why not 20 points on Daemon Rewards instead (including Curse of the Wul? Reserve Exalted Rewards for the truly Daemonic and all.