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Alright so explain this:
The reference cards for 7e psychic powers have a checkmark under Telepathy for Faction Chaos Daemons.
In the current Daemon codex, Pink Horrors "generate their powers from the Change discipline." (This was published before the 7e BRB)
In the updated rules from Wrath of Magnus, Pink Horrors "generate their powers from the Change discipline." (This was published after the 7e BRB)

The question: Can Pink Horrors generate their powers from the Telepathy discipline? Why or why not?


And explain this:
The reference cards for 7e psychic powers have a checkmark under Divination for Faction Eldar.
In the current Eldar codex, the Warlock Conclave "generates its powers from the Daemonlology (Sanctic) and Runes of Battle disciplines." (This was published after the 7e BRB)
In the same book, the Spiritseer "generates his powers from the the Daemonlology (Sanctic), Runes of Battle, and Telepathy disciplines."

The question: Can Warlocks and Spiritseers generate powers from Divination? Why or why not?

Those reference cards tell you what disciples a faction has. Not what psykers have those disciplines

I'll try and extrapolate from your incomplete answer....
Your "why not" to both is, "Because the datasheet for each respective unit does not list that discipline"?
And you would further state that a psyker needs to have a discipline listed on his datasheet (either on the printed page or amended through a supplement/FAQ) in order to generate powers from that discipline?

A unit must have permission from a legitimate rules source to generate powers from a discipline, whether this is general permission from the BRB (i.e. every faction gets demonology) or specific permission from a codex datasheet or FAQ ammendment.

A reference card stating that a faction has access to a discipline does not grant that discipline to every psyker in that faction, it merely informs you which factions have psykers which can cast those powers. In the case of divination, Farseers and Eldrad can roll on divination, so the eldar faction got a checkmark.

As above, 40k is a permission based rule set. You could put anything down on the table, but it is incapable of doing anything until it is granted permissions.

Once that object has been clarified to be a specific type of model it gains a unit type which grants permissions for movement etc etc...

That data sheet says if it can cast psychic powers, how many, and from what disciplines. If nothing grants pink horrors access to that discipline then they don't have access to it.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
I'll try and extrapolate from your incomplete answer....
Your "why not" to both is, "Because the datasheet for each respective unit does not list that discipline"?
And you would further state that a psyker needs to have a discipline listed on his datasheet (either on the printed page or amended through a supplement/FAQ) in order to generate powers from that discipline?

No, the permission does not have to be on the datasheet itself, but explict permission applicable to the specific unit is required. A permission for multiple datasheets could be elsewhere in the codex, a supplement or in the BRB.
Example : access to daemonolgy in the 7th Edition BRB. Not listed previously published datasheets, but provided by rules that specify who can under which conditions access the discipline.


A tick on the reference card only refers to the faction. Access to powers does vary within that faction. IIRC, there is even an example where a tick for a faction can only be explained by unlocking a discipline for a generic IC by purchase of an artifact. It can also be completely against the RAW, as demonstrated with the new disciplines introduced with the SM supplement AoD, which were later added renamed to CSM with a CSM supplement. The cards published along AoD have ticks for the special marine factions on the quick reference card, but none of the datasheets in these factions have any permission to use any of the disciplines.

Blood Angels got permission to use the new SM powers in the Angels Blade book. But there doesn't seem to be anything to allow Dark Angels and Grey Knights to do so.

 Tonberry7 wrote:
Blood Angels got permission to use the new SM powers in the Angels Blade book. But there doesn't seem to be anything to allow Dark Angels and Grey Knights to do so.

Good to know, thank you!
I had only checked FAQs for SM and DA.

Technically only Librarians in the non-codex chapter can select from the new SM powers, which means Bangels and Dangels are covered. The issue with the GK is that they have multiple non-Librarian units that select powers rather than have set powers, and there is a question on whether or not a Grey Knight Librarian is a Librarian per the naming conventions of the current rules. And regardless of where you rule for GKs, SWs don't have Librarians at all.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Technically only Librarians in the non-codex chapter can select from the new SM powers, which means Bangels and Dangels are covered. The issue with the GK is that they have multiple non-Librarian units that select powers rather than have set powers, and there is a question on whether or not a Grey Knight Librarian is a Librarian per the naming conventions of the current rules. And regardless of where you rule for GKs, SWs don't have Librarians at all.

SJ

Can you explain how you get permission for Dangles Libbys? In AoD there is permission for Space Marine Faction Libbys (which Dark Angels Faction Libby is not) and in Angels Blade Blood Angles Faction Libbys have permission (which, again, Dark Angels Faction Libby is not).

White Dwarf Weekly had an article that gave permission, as well as the Psychic Powers deck check list of which factions can use the new powers.

As a GK player myself, I do not believe there is sufficient permission for my army to select from the new powers, so I don't.

SJ

Posted in response on B&C, but will add here for discussion:

From 'Generating Psychic Powers':

"In some Army List Entries, a Psyker will have one or more specific psychic powers listed – where this is the case, it will be clearly stated. These Psykers always start the game with those psychic powers. Otherwise, a Psyker generates random psychic powers from amongst the psychic disciplines known to him."

One way or another you must be told a Psyker has a discipline known to generate powers from that discipline.

Yeah the thread was to try and talk some sense into some annoyingly butthurt GK players over on B&C.

"My secretive chapter has the best psykers evah, so it's unfair that I can't access the cool new disciplines!!" "I want to use marketing fluff as justification!"

Thanks Stephanius for the refinement to the argument.

And Jeffersonian, I agree. As an avid GK player, I would LOVE Draigo with Veil of Time, or a NDK getting Electrodisplaced forward...but I don't see the permissions. (Yet!)

The big one was when the new discaplines came out and Chaos got a tick for divination (I think it was). This didn´t allow all chaos psykers to use divination as their codex didn´t allow that. It was simply that Ahriman was specifically allowed to use it initially so they got the tick in the box because as a faction chaos did have access to it.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Yeah the thread was to try and talk some sense into some annoyingly butthurt GK players over on B&C.

"My secretive chapter has the best psykers evah, so it's unfair that I can't access the cool new disciplines!!" "I want to use marketing fluff as justification!"

Thanks Stephanius for the refinement to the argument.

And Jeffersonian, I agree. As an avid GK player, I would LOVE Draigo with Veil of Time, or a NDK getting Electrodisplaced forward...but I don't see the permissions. (Yet!)

I might be missing something, but it states the GK can use AOD powers right on the GW website, look at the last line. Or do you mean that only the GK libby can use them?

mfranks985 wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Yeah the thread was to try and talk some sense into some annoyingly butthurt GK players over on B&C.

"My secretive chapter has the best psykers evah, so it's unfair that I can't access the cool new disciplines!!" "I want to use marketing fluff as justification!"

Thanks Stephanius for the refinement to the argument.

And Jeffersonian, I agree. As an avid GK player, I would LOVE Draigo with Veil of Time, or a NDK getting Electrodisplaced forward...but I don't see the permissions. (Yet!)

I might be missing something, but it states the GK can use AOD powers right on the GW website, look at the last line. Or do you mean that only the GK libby can use them?

Yes, GK have access to the new SM psychic disciplines. No, there are no units in the GK that have permission to select from those disciplines. There is a signle GW publication that states all SM faction Librarians can select from the new disciplines including Space Wolf Librarians, were don't exist. From an RAI standpoint, you make an argument that DA and GK should included, yet per RAW even they do not have sufficient permission. And per RAW and RAI, Space Puppies be kicked hard on this.

SJ

EDIT: Nevermind

So GK or DA don't have permission to generate off of the AoD psychic powers? I've always seen them played that way.

 gummyofallbears wrote:
So GK or DA don't have permission to generate off of the AoD psychic powers? I've always seen them played that way.

No because none of their units have permission to do so, as could be listed either on a dataslate, note within a codex/supplement or an FAQ.

This whole debate was done ages ago when the supplement first came out. The forum was split as to whether the datacards counted as an Errata or not.

In the end, no one could convince the other. It's a ask your playgroup/TO thing.

They're not labeled as "Errata" so they definitely aren't. How would this even be debatable?
RAI and RAW is further supported by the release of Codex FAQs back in January, with no mention of adding these to any units in GK, DA, DW, or SW.

There is no rules publication from GW that gives any unit from those four chapters access to new disciplines.

Edit: and the parallels between Eldar and Daemons (as shown in the OP) make it a solid answer. GK players are just butthurt (as usual) that their "best psykers evah" don't have the shiny new toys.
And yes, I play GK most of the time. I'm butthurt too, but I'm not gonna cheat about it.

Regarding the OP, Daemons from the Codex can also use Demonology powers of course

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
They're not labeled as "Errata" so they definitely aren't. How would this even be debatable?
RAI and RAW is further supported by the release of Codex FAQs back in January, with no mention of adding these to any units in GK, DA, DW, or SW.

There is no rules publication from GW that gives any unit from those four chapters access to new disciplines.

Edit: and the parallels between Eldar and Daemons (as shown in the OP) make it a solid answer. GK players are just butthurt (as usual) that their "best psykers evah" don't have the shiny new toys.
And yes, I play GK most of the time. I'm butthurt too, but I'm not gonna cheat about it.

You can probably search and find it still. It was GK, DA and BA players (plus maybe some Space Wolves?). The line came down to some people believing the cards count as "rules" since they were published by GW while others believed they did not. After many pages no one was able to make the other budge.

Audustum wrote:
You can probably search and find it still. It was GK, DA and BA players (plus maybe some Space Wolves?). The line came down to some people believing the cards count as "rules" since they were published by GW while others believed they did not. After many pages no one was able to make the other budge.

Even if the reference sheets are treated as proper rules still not a single Codex: Space Wolves unit has access to any of the new disciplines.
There are existing examples of factions that do not have a single unit able to access a discipline listed for their fact.
There are existing examples of units that do not have access to all the disciplines available to their faction.
There's no reason to assume this changed with the new disciplines. Why treat it differently from the original reference sheet then?

If GW wants to add these disciplines to any of the other SM factions they will do so in an errata or supplement.

Na-uh, nope, you're not luring me into summarizing that entire fight in detail. You can probably still find the thread.

I think RAI GW did mean it though (and that thread was mostly RAW so this is a bit new). Their website did and might still say GK and obviously there's the cards.

Audustum wrote:
Na-uh, nope, you're not luring me into summarizing that entire fight in detail. You can probably still find the thread.

I think RAI GW did mean it though (and that thread was mostly RAW so this is a bit new). Their website did and might still say GK and obviously there's the cards.

All those sources do is tell you that those factions might have access to these disciplines, but you still need specific permission for a unit/model to access one or more of them - just like with all of the other disciplines.
I've not seen one single argument against that except for "but if the factions gains access, at least SOME models within surely must have automatic access as well?" which is already proven a false assumption by the existing disciplines and their reference sheet.

 rawne2510 wrote:
The big one was when the new discaplines came out and Chaos got a tick for divination (I think it was). This didn´t allow all chaos psykers to use divination as their codex didn´t allow that. It was simply that Ahriman was specifically allowed to use it initially so they got the tick in the box because as a faction chaos did have access to it.

It wasn't even Ahriman. If you took the Scrolls of Magnus to get a new random power each turn there was a chance you could roll Divination. Huron Blackheart also had a 1/3 chance to get a Divination spell each turn. Hence Divination access.

Chrysis wrote:

 rawne2510 wrote:
The big one was when the new discaplines came out and Chaos got a tick for divination (I think it was). This didn´t allow all chaos psykers to use divination as their codex didn´t allow that. It was simply that Ahriman was specifically allowed to use it initially so they got the tick in the box because as a faction chaos did have access to it.

It wasn't even Ahriman. If you took the Scrolls of Magnus to get a new random power each turn there was a chance you could roll Divination. Huron Blackheart also had a 1/3 chance to get a Divination spell each turn. Hence Divination access.

I always thought it was probably more in reference to the Crimson Slaughter relic that gave Divination, though Huron and the Scrolls are likely to.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Chrysis wrote:

 rawne2510 wrote:
The big one was when the new discaplines came out and Chaos got a tick for divination (I think it was). This didn´t allow all chaos psykers to use divination as their codex didn´t allow that. It was simply that Ahriman was specifically allowed to use it initially so they got the tick in the box because as a faction chaos did have access to it.

It wasn't even Ahriman. If you took the Scrolls of Magnus to get a new random power each turn there was a chance you could roll Divination. Huron Blackheart also had a 1/3 chance to get a Divination spell each turn. Hence Divination access.

I always thought it was probably more in reference to the Crimson Slaughter relic that gave Divination, though Huron and the Scrolls are likely to.

At the time the cards came out Crimson Slaughter didn't exist if I remember correctly.

Chrysis wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Chrysis wrote:

 rawne2510 wrote:
The big one was when the new discaplines came out and Chaos got a tick for divination (I think it was). This didn´t allow all chaos psykers to use divination as their codex didn´t allow that. It was simply that Ahriman was specifically allowed to use it initially so they got the tick in the box because as a faction chaos did have access to it.

It wasn't even Ahriman. If you took the Scrolls of Magnus to get a new random power each turn there was a chance you could roll Divination. Huron Blackheart also had a 1/3 chance to get a Divination spell each turn. Hence Divination access.

I always thought it was probably more in reference to the Crimson Slaughter relic that gave Divination, though Huron and the Scrolls are likely to.

At the time the cards came out Crimson Slaughter didn't exist if I remember correctly.

Crimson Slaughter was half of the 6th edition starter set, along with the Dark Angels.