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Hi Guys

I've played a mate who plays Skitarii and mechanicum and he keeps bringing 4 kastellans with their little controller prawn and Cawl and it doesnt matter what i do i can never kill them best Ive done is 3 of the 4. I just want to know if there is any way to kill them easily.

Ive shot at them but the high T value and the invul and the FNP and the 3 wounds and cawl letting them make IWND rolls etc keeps them alive.
They tank Magnus' D powers killed him in overwatch also once reflected the D and killed magnus on a 6... they have killed more daemon princes than i care to admit, Ive tried Force weapons for the instant death but cant hurt them with the crazy high toughness. Last night they killed my Dakka renegade Knight with cawls 5 haywire attacks and him adding +1s so all the robbits could hurt me.

My mate doesnt try to cheat since we both play pretty fluffy chilled lists but we are both new to Skitarii and Ad mech so im wondering if he is getting any rules wrong or what i thought they would get worse after the dude controlling them dies but they get a never ending FNP?

Yeah so i just want to know strategies to kill them, I also had 20 ork boys and a MA warboss with DLS hit them and they only killed 1. So tired of these guys never dying...

Poison works. Summon up some Plaguebearers

Plasma

Only the Datasmith has FNP. The robots do not (unless using the Aegis protocol). Also anything that will instakill him (instant death) will negate FNP. If they are using the Aegis protocol to tank they are a lot less shooty and will be looking to close for CC - don't let them

They are tough, sure, but only have 3+ armour. Hit them with some AP 3. I don't play CSM , but i'm sure you can find some in there somewhere To be fair they are the ONLY heavy support Ad Mech gets, and they don't get any vehicles in pure Ad Mech (and fragile skitarii ones), so it's only fair that the bots are sturdy..

They also swing at initiative 2. A daemon prince should be hitting first, ignoring their armour, and in all probability landing some serious wounds on them. They have no invulnerable save in close combat, if I remember, just against shooting attacks.

Personally i shoot them from range with blasts. They can't reflect blasts, templates or psychic shooting attacks.

Perhaps you could let us know what you have, and we can work something up? Right now i'm guessing on what you have available.

So only the datasmith has FNP? IIRC he gives them a protocol every turn which is just a buff, or thats what ive been lead to believe. I have tried hitting them with a bucket load of plasma but they just dont die.

I pretty much have everything in CSM nurgle daemons and orks.

He can buff them to FNP with the protocol, yes. Only the Datasmith comes by it naturally.

A bucket of plasma ought to kill them, maybe your luck just sucks, like mine... It should wound on 4+, ignoring the armor..

If you want to go full on unkillable in response try a Biomancy GUO - if you get Iron Arm off you are S 9, T 10 with an invulnerable save and AP 2. You would wound them on 2's and strike first, ignoring the armor

Oblits perhaps? Lascannons would wound on 2's, ignoring the armour.. If you have any str D weapons they ignore FNP and armor, such as an Aquila Strongpoint of a knight's cc attacks...

I'll think on it a bit, and get back to you. I run mono-nurgle daemons, so MC's are usually less of a threat to me. Poisoned MC's with high strength and AP 2 are my tanks

I run much more CSM than daemons but i have the daemons i was thinking maybe running a DP with the new nurgle item that is poisoned 2+ that could work nicely only allowing their FNP. Should hopefully kill one or 2 the GUO sounds like fun too. Talking about the plasma I once had 4 squads of plague marnies all double tap into them with 2 plasma each so it was like 16 shots i killed 2 marines in gets hot... and another 2 died from the 6's invul reflecting and only did a couple wounds i think killing one. then all their ap3 twin linked guns murdered me.

My rolls are generally average i have good days and bad ones but vs these robots i can never get a break haha.

Vindicare Assassin with Turbo Pens can take out the Datasmith EASILY

But what does the squad lose if the data smith dies? if the protocol is on how its worded it seems they keep the FNP for the game?

 Ubl1k wrote:
But what does the squad lose if the data smith dies? if the protocol is on how its worded it seems they keep the FNP for the game?

It means they cannot swap their Data Protocols
So, for example, if the "Fire Twice but cant move" protocol was enabled, and the datasmith died, the Robots would be stuck where they are, as they cannot move

Daemon Prince with the Seer's Bane:
-Average of 9 attacks on the charge
-Hitting on 3s
-Wounding on 2s
-ap2
-Instant Death because of Force

On average killing 4 models per turn in cc (or 480pts).
Have fun with that.

Hi there, I play a minimum squad of Kastelans and absolutely love them, I plan on getting the Cohort Cybernetica minus Cawl in the future, like your opponent, as it it really sturdy indeed. It it not unbeatable though, mine never made it all the game through.

Dreadknights with Nemesis Swords and Force, they can one-shot them. Poison weaponry still wounds them fairly easily (go figure how poison works against a robot). S10 blasts are still dangerous, especially as it's often AP1/2. Psykers are really mean too, they can't deflect Psychic bolts, and the power where you oppose two Ld tests and deduce the difference in Wounds is really mean too, I lost one this way and it hurted (now I swear I'm bringing a Culexus everyday). If you have cheap bodies you can lock them in CC forever too but as they are Fearless don't expect them to lose the fight and run.

I play this formation - "Cohort Cybernetica". Rabbit Kastellans lol.

People have already said ideas to kill them, really.

Couple of mistakes above - the Kastelans come with Feel No Pain by default but it's one of their three "Protocols" so they can choose to swap it out mid game for something else.

You can also get IWND across them all by taking the Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land relic so the unit self heals.

Datasmiths and Cawl/Tech-Priest Dominus are 2+ save so should be out front taking the hits.

It's tough!

It's worth noting that as listed with Belisarius Cawl, that one formation is a minimum of 800 points. Probably 850. Its the points equivalent of 2 kitted out imperial knights, or almost 3 wraithknights. It SHOULD be very hard to kill.

It's also slow and will not win you objective based games. Hopefully it absorbs a huge amount of firepower so the army's objective grabbing gribblies can be relatively unmolested.

Which is why of course you run a single Datasmith - makes it that much harder to leave them locked on a dubious protocol.

Their major downside though is their points. Kastellan do not come cheap, at all.

I ran a particularly minging unit during an Apocalypse game. Took their formation which allows them to split their fire (one Robot per Smith/Magos can do it), and with the Canticles (I had the 'always count max units for Canticles Warlord Trait - truth be told I always roll that one up!). They had FnP, It Will Not Die and BS2 Overwatch. Six Kastellan with all the dakka, two Datasmiths and the Arcmagos came in a little over 1,000 points.

My recommendation? See if you can't actively avoid them. They can't get Objective Secured, and they're excrutiatingly slow. With so many points tied up in a single unit, that can be punishing.

Thanks guys lots of great ideas here, Honestly i usually end up just leaving them to do their business but all those Ap3 shots end up hurting a large swathe of my army. I love running plague marines but these guys just plough through me.

They are a nightmare for MEQ which rely on boosted Toughness, I'll give you that

At least they're balanced, they're worth their cost. I'd like to run a Cohort Cybernetica allied with a big Skitarii Maniple to do the objectives and anti-tank duty, you can ignore the Kastelans but as slow as they are they still have 36" and pump out a LOT of hurt, either way they have to be dealt with most of the time I feel.

 Aaranis wrote:
At least they're balanced, they're worth their cost. I'd like to run a Cohort Cybernetica allied with a big Skitarii Maniple to do the objectives and anti-tank duty, you can ignore the Kastelans but as slow as they are they still have 36" and pump out a LOT of hurt, either way they have to be dealt with most of the time I feel.

Yes, you need units to play the maelstrom game as well. When I use the Cohort Cybernetica, I take a Castellans of the Imperium detachment, giving me 6 or more units of troops (bikes and tac squads) that respawn on a 5+. Works ok.

I even tried giving them weapon virus once haha they just use the canticles or twin linked to reroll haha

 mrhappyface wrote:
Daemon Prince with the Seer's Bane:
-Average of 9 attacks on the charge
-Hitting on 3s
-Wounding on 2s
-ap2
-Instant Death because of Force

On average killing 4 models per turn in cc (or 480pts).
Have fun with that.

Problem with that is you're going down a very expensive route to deal with a problem.

The Daemon Prince with that set up is going to be around the 350+ point Mark and also would be a Thousand Sons prince - forcing your detachment choice for that.

And the problem with Kastellans is....

You kill one of the T6 FNP grav spam blobs....and then are left standing there to be deleted by the second T6 FNP grav spam blob after you delete the first. Sadly...they come in twos.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Problem with that is you're going down a very expensive route to deal with a problem.

The Daemon Prince with that set up is going to be around the 350+ point Mark and also would be a Thousand Sons prince - forcing your detachment choice for that.

And the problem with Kastellans is....

You kill one of the T6 FNP grav spam blobs....and then are left standing there to be deleted by the second T6 FNP grav spam blob after you delete the first. Sadly...they come in twos.

What ? The unit you're describing doesn't exist, the Kastelans are T7 and don't have any Grav weapons. You're confusing them with the T5 Kataphrons, who indeed have 6 shots Grav Cannons but no FNP at all.

If you're running Nurgle daemons/csm, I would pretty much only ever fight them if you've got like a psychic buffed deathstar of some sort ready to go to crack them open. They are prettttty easy to take down with some fairly minor poison stuff comparatively. Poison only really drops off in effectiveness vs 2+ armor, any time I take DE against them I can reliably drop them with a couple of venoms from a safe distance.

 Aaranis wrote:

What ? The unit you're describing doesn't exist, the Kastelans are T7 and don't have any Grav weapons. You're confusing them with the T5 Kataphrons, who indeed have 6 shots Grav Cannons but no FNP at all.

Kastelans do have Feel No Pain. It's called Aegis Protocol and is the 'mode' they start the game in, but can switch out of.

 Silentz wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:

What ? The unit you're describing doesn't exist, the Kastelans are T7 and don't have any Grav weapons. You're confusing them with the T5 Kataphrons, who indeed have 6 shots Grav Cannons but no FNP at all.

Kastelans do have Feel No Pain. It's called Aegis Protocol and is the 'mode' they start the game in, but can switch out of.

Kastellans do, Kataphrons do not. Which is what he was explaining.

The Grav blobs are Kataphrons (track units with a servitor body and gun), which have no FNP and less toughness. Kastellans are the big 50's looking robots.

 Ascalam wrote:

 Silentz wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:

What ? The unit you're describing doesn't exist, the Kastelans are T7 and don't have any Grav weapons. You're confusing them with the T5 Kataphrons, who indeed have 6 shots Grav Cannons but no FNP at all.

Kastelans do have Feel No Pain. It's called Aegis Protocol and is the 'mode' they start the game in, but can switch out of.

Kastellans do, Kataphrons do not. Which is what he was explaining.

The Grav blobs are Kataphrons (track units with a servitor body and gun), which have no FNP and less toughness. Kastellans are the big 50's looking robots.

Thanks, you explained for me. We all misunderstood the other

It would help if GW could manage to name units in a mini-codex something markedly different from each other It's not like there were a lot of units to name ...

As someone who loves kastellens the best way to play against them is usually to ignore them where possible. Unless you have units dedicated to killing them that are themselves 250+ pts you wont do serious damage, especially with cawl in there.

I know its a lot of shooting to weather but at the end of the day that's 800 pts for one unit that can at best score one or two objectives a turn. Focus on killing the rest of the army and getting objectives.

I've played against them only once myself and that was with a grey knights army, Draigo, a librarian and paladins (halberds) did kill them and mostly survive thanks to hammerhand and force. Unless you can do something similar working around them is the only good option.

Ah, once again my single Kastelan Maniple died in a 1350 pts game today, first turn of my opponent. He just charged them from an assault vehicle with a dozen of Nobz (don't know the exact ones, they have a 4+ and 2 of them had Power Claws), the Boss and a Pain Boy. They got killed before even hitting.

I don't know what I did wrong but this game went really downside for me when he shot off my Techpriest and 7 Vanguards in one shooting phase from his transport full of whatever guns. He had some units with 72" range, what the hell ? Orks have a longer range than me ?

Just to say, the Kastelan are not good in CC when there's not enough of them, drown them in attacks and they will fall.

Lootas might? But I thought they were 36"...

Think that was Lootas yeah, he rolled a D6 to know how much shots each guys of his unit could do for the upcoming shooting phase. I can't check the range myself, I believed him on the spot.

It's d3 shots, so yeah, that makes sense.

I really didn't think they were 72".

 JNAProductions wrote:
It's d3 shots, so yeah, that makes sense.

I really didn't think they were 72".

Update: they're not



Sorry for the off-topic guys !

EDIT: It's the Deffguns, first table