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Hi fighting a renegade knight house (3) with another daemon knight as well. Looking for load outs for the eight L.Russ tanks of mine??p.s i have always took publisher Pask so help with the rest would be nice.cheers in advance.

Vanquishers seem like your best bet.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Vanquishers seem like your best bet.

I think being a one shot and AP2 "only" rendered the Vanquisher almost useless against IK, Because for every UNSAVED penetration hit you are only looking at 1/9 chances to do more than 1 HP damage to the Knight (i.e. 1/6 in rolling explosion result, followed by 2/3 chances to roll 3-6 to cause 2 or 3 HP intotal). Which means you are likely just chewing one HP at a time.

Actually I think none of the Leman Russ tanks are good in taking down an IK, due to their long range weapons are far from decent and their slow speed compare to a Knight. The Imperial Guards best bet in taking down a Knight is massed suicide melta Veterans (each Squad with 3 melta guns, even better one with a demo charge) transported by Chimeras or air drop by Valkyries, to attack from different angle, making the Knight not able to shield every incoming threat. Also, multiple Melta cannon and Multi melta mounted Devil Dogs may also do better than Leman Russ Tanks, due to their fast speed to get to optimal position to melt the Knight.

I never said they were a GOOD idea. I'm just not aware of any better Russ load out for Knight Hunting.

yeah your LRs are gonna be torn to shreads by IKs, IKs are as close to a hard counter to a russ as I can think

Really all you can do is put as many multimeltas, lascannons, and vanquishers on your tanks as you can and hope for the best.

Close to no chances regardless of the loadouts. Unless you roll sixes all the time and the opponent fails all his 4++ saves.

In general I tend to prefer a manticore or two (although I'm only facing 1 or 2 knights) because they can't shield against them given broken rules and you're glancing on a 2, with d3 shots, on a target that is relatively hard to miss. Just be sure to bubble wrap them, because 12/10/10.

Why can't they shield?

Martel732 wrote:
Why can't they shield?

More the fact that the rules don't have any way of deciding which facing the shot hits. Line of sight is drawn from the center of the blast, and the center of the blast is the top of the model. If they declare, say, left side, you're not hitting the left side. You're not hitting any side, the blast originates from the center of the model, the top, it just uses side armor. It comes down to houseruling though, so YMMV, I've just been fortunate enough to have it ruled that they can't.

Another thing we need an FAQ for.

 kingbobbito wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Why can't they shield?

More the fact that the rules don't have any way of deciding which facing the shot hits. Line of sight is drawn from the center of the blast, and the center of the blast is the top of the model. If they declare, say, left side, you're not hitting the left side. You're not hitting any side, the blast originates from the center of the model, the top, it just uses side armor. It comes down to houseruling though, so YMMV, I've just been fortunate enough to have it ruled that they can't.

Another thing we need an FAQ for.

To be fair my friend and I agreed to play it like this in our last game, when my Chapter Master drop an orbital bombardment on his Knight:
Measure the distance between center of the Blast Marker to both side of "the side armor of IK", the barrage count as hitting the closest "side armor" of the Knight, to determine if the shield save can be taken.
Hope that help

The FAQ says to count the facing that the shot originated from as the one to use for the shield.

Ie: the shot came from a model in its front arc, the shield would have to be placed forward to count for saving purposes, even though its rolling against side armour.

Pretty toasted. Pask in punisher is best one but since that's 1 only then...Well obviously vanquishers with lascannons and/or melta cannons to max. Still you are going to be underdog big time :-/

 kingbobbito wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Why can't they shield?

More the fact that the rules don't have any way of deciding which facing the shot hits. Line of sight is drawn from the center of the blast, and the center of the blast is the top of the model. If they declare, say, left side, you're not hitting the left side. You're not hitting any side, the blast originates from the center of the model, the top, it just uses side armor. It comes down to houseruling though, so YMMV, I've just been fortunate enough to have it ruled that they can't.

Another thing we need an FAQ for.

This was addressed in the FAQ. The shield facing is the direction the model firing the shot is in.

Aaand we're coming back to no chances.

 koooaei wrote:
Aaand we're coming back to no chances.

He asked for the best loadout for the tanks. Unless you have a better loadout, keep in mind "better" does not mean "best possible thing" it means "best option within the confines I've designated". If you don't have something to say within those confines, please leave the thread. Otherwise you're no better than the person who posts something like "Take Eldar instead" when I make a post about a unit within the BA codex.

Sounds like Vanquisher with lascannon and multi melta sponsons to me.

pask with the vanquisher and a las cannon, his buiddy with the same load out, I would skip the multi meltas to save on points. Pask can re roll to hit in that tank, he can also re roll the armor pen due to crack shot. both tanks re roll ones from old grudges. I think thats like 310 points? so then you could do another tank commander in a vanq with a las cannon and his buddy the same just for more high strength armour bane shots going out. Then maybe some devil dogs with multi meltas, with pask you have a 1/3rd chance to get out flank as the warlord trait, if they outflank thats dope, if not then they could ride up the flank.

The point is you have to get multiple angles to force your opponent to put up the shield and leave himself exposed somewhere else. And out of all the Leman russ tanks the vanquisher can do it the best with its range and armor bane cannon. Pask in the punisher wouldnt be too wise cause your opponent can easily move the knight wherever he wants, thus moving your warlord where ever he wants cause the short 24" range.

The issue is, the Vanquisher is your best bet. If you manage to get all your Vanquishers to be BS4, you're looking at...

6 HP
Penning 83.33% of the time, glancing 8.33% of the time (assume side armor)
Each pen has a 16.67% chance of doing an Explodes
Hitting 66.67% of the time
Each shot does .06 HP from glances, .56 HP from Pens, and .19 HP from Explodes.
That's .81 HP per shot-assuming you're getting side armor, and he has no save.

So, under optimal circumstances, you need seven and a half Vanquisher shots. Realistically, that number's going to be at least 10, since he'll have his Invuln on some shots, and you'll be hitting front armor sometimes.

 JNAProductions wrote:
The issue is, the Vanquisher is your best bet. If you manage to get all your Vanquishers to be BS4, you're looking at...

6 HP
Penning 83.33% of the time, glancing 8.33% of the time (assume side armor)
Each pen has a 16.67% chance of doing an Explodes
Hitting 66.67% of the time
Each shot does .06 HP from glances, .56 HP from Pens, and .19 HP from Explodes.
That's .81 HP per shot-assuming you're getting side armor, and he has no save.

So, under optimal circumstances, you need seven and a half Vanquisher shots. Realistically, that number's going to be at least 10, since he'll have his Invuln on some shots, and you'll be hitting front armor sometimes.

To be far Those LRs alsow iwill have a Lascannon on their hull to shoot as well and that will help some

Are you gonna make me do more math?

Again, side armour.
66.67% hit rate.
16.67% glance.
50% pen.
16.67% Explodes!
.11 HP from glances, .33 from Pens, and .11 from Explodes!

.55 per shot per Lascannon. Add that to the .81 from the Vanquisher, and you get 1.36, or four and a half against unshielded side armor.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Are you gonna make me do more math?

Again, side armour.
66.67% hit rate.
16.67% glance.
50% pen.
16.67% Explodes!
.11 HP from glances, .33 from Pens, and .11 from Explodes!

.55 per shot per Lascannon. Add that to the .81 from the Vanquisher, and you get 1.36, or four and a half against unshielded side armor.

Pask basically having twin linked, and re roll of armour penetration(Crack Shot), plus the re roll ones for his buddy (old grudges) would raise the hit and pen a bit as well for his unit.

How much is a single Vanquisher with Lascannon, though? 150 points?

That's over 600 points to kill the Knight in one turn under PERFECT conditions.

 Rock The 40K wrote:
pask with the vanquisher and a las cannon, his buiddy with the same load out, I would skip the multi meltas to save on points. Pask can re roll to hit in that tank, he can also re roll the armor pen due to crack shot. both tanks re roll ones from old grudges. I think thats like 310 points? so then you could do another tank commander in a vanq with a las cannon and his buddy the same just for more high strength armour bane shots going out. Then maybe some devil dogs with multi meltas, with pask you have a 1/3rd chance to get out flank as the warlord trait, if they outflank thats dope, if not then they could ride up the flank.

The point is you have to get multiple angles to force your opponent to put up the shield and leave himself exposed somewhere else. And out of all the Leman russ tanks the vanquisher can do it the best with its range and armor bane cannon. Pask in the punisher wouldnt be too wise cause your opponent can easily move the knight wherever he wants, thus moving your warlord where ever he wants cause the short 24" range.

I've always wondered why no one ever seems to consider using Pask with the Exterminator
48" range (So it doesn't have to be in potential charge range of the enemy)
Str 7, 4 Shots. TL With Pask's re-rolls for Armour penetration) Would be enough to do a couple of HP damage (and easily kill the average vehicle if it has no cover)
Can't critical hit a Super heavy, but you can't have everything.

Although I find that dude verrrrry pricey for what he does (70 points!!!!)

Jbz` wrote:

 Rock The 40K wrote:
pask with the vanquisher and a las cannon, his buiddy with the same load out, I would skip the multi meltas to save on points. Pask can re roll to hit in that tank, he can also re roll the armor pen due to crack shot. both tanks re roll ones from old grudges. I think thats like 310 points? so then you could do another tank commander in a vanq with a las cannon and his buddy the same just for more high strength armour bane shots going out. Then maybe some devil dogs with multi meltas, with pask you have a 1/3rd chance to get out flank as the warlord trait, if they outflank thats dope, if not then they could ride up the flank.

The point is you have to get multiple angles to force your opponent to put up the shield and leave himself exposed somewhere else. And out of all the Leman russ tanks the vanquisher can do it the best with its range and armor bane cannon. Pask in the punisher wouldnt be too wise cause your opponent can easily move the knight wherever he wants, thus moving your warlord where ever he wants cause the short 24" range.

I've always wondered why no one ever seems to consider using Pask with the Exterminator
48" range (So it doesn't have to be in potential charge range of the enemy)
Str 7, 4 Shots. TL With Pask's re-rolls for Armour penetration)

Although I find that dude verrrrry pricey for what he does (70 points!!!!)

Because Pask in a Punisher is several times better at destroying tanks, and everything else in the game

 CrownAxe wrote:

Jbz` wrote:

 Rock The 40K wrote:
pask with the vanquisher and a las cannon, his buiddy with the same load out, I would skip the multi meltas to save on points. Pask can re roll to hit in that tank, he can also re roll the armor pen due to crack shot. both tanks re roll ones from old grudges. I think thats like 310 points? so then you could do another tank commander in a vanq with a las cannon and his buddy the same just for more high strength armour bane shots going out. Then maybe some devil dogs with multi meltas, with pask you have a 1/3rd chance to get out flank as the warlord trait, if they outflank thats dope, if not then they could ride up the flank.

The point is you have to get multiple angles to force your opponent to put up the shield and leave himself exposed somewhere else. And out of all the Leman russ tanks the vanquisher can do it the best with its range and armor bane cannon. Pask in the punisher wouldnt be too wise cause your opponent can easily move the knight wherever he wants, thus moving your warlord where ever he wants cause the short 24" range.

I've always wondered why no one ever seems to consider using Pask with the Exterminator
48" range (So it doesn't have to be in potential charge range of the enemy)
Str 7, 4 Shots. TL With Pask's re-rolls for Armour penetration)

Although I find that dude verrrrry pricey for what he does (70 points!!!!)

Because Pask in a Punisher is several times better at destroying tanks, and everything else in the game

But the question is is he better off with the increased range so you can protect him better?
If Punisher Pask only gets to fire once due to having to be closer and easier to target is he still better than Exterminator Pask sat behind a Platoon of dudes that the enemy would have to wade through to reach him while he chips away any armour they have?

Jbz` wrote:
I've always wondered why no one ever seems to consider using Pask with the Exterminator
48" range (So it doesn't have to be in potential charge range of the enemy)
Str 7, 4 Shots. TL With Pask's re-rolls for Armour penetration) Would be enough to do a couple of HP damage (and easily kill the average vehicle if it has no cover)
Can't critical hit a Super heavy, but you can't have everything.

Although I find that dude verrrrry pricey for what he does (70 points!!!!)

Punisher is better against a wider variety of targets. Eats infantry for breakfast, but also hurts MCs because 3 rending shots, vs not even 1 a turn from the exterminator. And against armor you're going to get almost 5 rends, so at least 1 HP against AV14 and increasingly more against weaker armor, the exterminator is against slightly worse at this.

Extra range, but AP4 with maybe 1 rend vs an average of 3 AP2 shots, as well as 12 other S5 hits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jbz` wrote:
But the question is is he better off with the increased range so you can protect him better?
If Punisher Pask only gets to fire once due to having to be closer and easier to target is he still better than Exterminator Pask sat behind a Platoon of dudes that the enemy would have to wade through to reach him while he chips away any armour they have?

In 1 turn punisher pask will do more to a riptide than the exterminator will in the entire game.

Don't skip the MMs.You can glance AV 13 on 5's and pen on 6's. That's how you chip out the HPs on knights.

 kingbobbito wrote:

In 1 turn punisher pask will do more to a riptide than the exterminator will in the entire game.

Which would be relevant if the OP had asked about killing Riptides.

If you drop some meltagun dudes from a Valkyrie on a flank, your vanquisher won't even be shooting through a shield.