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Which is better? To get even BS 4, you have to have a commander for 30 points more. Pask for 70 gives you a bit more, but it's 70 more points. You can add a Lascannon for only 10 points.

With the Vindicare, you only get one shot, but you pretty much won't ever miss. Possibly more fragile.

Vindicare is 150 points. Vanquisher with Lascannon is 145. Add 30 for a commander and 70 for Pask. I'd be running a Eradicator anyway, so the extra tank is not a big deal if a commander or Pask is used.

Opinions?

Point cost arnt even equivalent. This is like comparing sapodila to durian. Two widely different fruits compared to apples and oranges.

Point cost arnt even equivalent. This is like comparing sapodila to durian. Two widely different fruits compared to apples and oranges.

He is entirely right about that, the problem with this is that the Russ has the power to one shot nearly anything if it hits, not barring inv saves. However with the addition of a commander and Pask, you get all of their special rules, and re-rolls. Its just that the Vindicare is an extremely more versatile character on the field. Being able to shoot from one end of the board, to the other on all but the insane apocalypse settings. Re-rolling misses up to a 4, ignoring cover no matter what. Three forms of ammunition giving him the ability to effect basically any target on the field no matter what their stats, or armament.
Give this guy a close range weapon with ap 4 or 3 like his partners, and I dare say he could handle anything you throw at him. Despite being only toughness 4, his 3 wounds, and 4+ inv save. (being op is why he lost the 4+ fnp as well) can keep him alive through some pretty nasty situations.

In fact I've had my Vindicare pop that exact same build of tank in turn 1, more times than I've seen any tank do to him in the whole match. The Vindicare's true power is in his ability to see any unit he fancies from across the field, and wound it or outright kill in at a whim. Got an enemy havoc squad with a lascannon? Sniped... Enemy Sargent or command squad? Sniped... be it a terminator, or whatever.

He only fails on a slight majority against two units.
Monstrous Creatures & Characters - More specifically being models with multiple wounds a piece. If you can take it out in one hit, than its more of a tactical target for him. Though you can still fired a Turbo Penetrator round at the guy and hope to roll high on a D3.
Vehicles & Flyers - Being that this is mainly because of the same reason above (multiple hull points) this is more or less because of the flyers. Even with a insane BS of 8, he is highly likely to miss flyers. Thankfully the re-roll allows you to alleviate some of that problem. Finding a cheap way to give this guy sky fire on command would be a nice way to even that out.

Both vulnerable to str8 and above but at least the Russ is immune to most things that aren't haywire or lance from the front whereas the Vindicare is T4 with 3W and no eternal warrior and can be put down with relative ease by bolterfire. Would you pay 150 points for 3 sniper scouts? No? That's about as durable as a Vindicare against weapons that don't ignore cover.

Both are sub-optimal, but at least the Vanq fills a mandatory slot unlike the Vindicare and the Vanq can contribute to armour saturation while the Assassin is just a very expensive multi-wound T4 IC who can't join a squad and doesn't have EW.

I rarely do well with a Vindicaire. Barring a really lucky shot against a tank, it's simply too hard to effectively make his points back. He can't reliably kill anyone with an invuln, and definitely can't reliably kill any multi-wound characters with invulns. He can take out special weapons and standard bearers, but that's about it.

A Space Marine with a Grav Cannon is 49 points. Assuming that he is just standing around, the Vindicaire can finish him off easily - But that's three turns against one of the most point-sinky targets the Vindicaire could hope for.

 CadianGateTroll wrote:
Point cost arnt even equivalent. This is like comparing sapodila to durian. Two widely different fruits compared to apples and oranges.

The point of my question is does the Vindicare do well enough at killing armor to justify taking him over a Vanquisher with a Lascannon in order to get the other benefits the Vindicare offers that are not strictly killing armor. I have seen several posts about how Vindicares don't make back their points, but if they don't, do Vanquishers either? I just don't see how Vanquishers are that much better, if at all, at killing armor than a Vindicare. The major plus for the Vindicare seems to be he is unlikely to miss. The con would seem to be he can be killed easier. How much easier is the question. Sure, you could add Pask and get all the cool rules he has, but then you have a 215 point tank. I could take a Vindicare in its place and a Wyvern to deal with bikes or infantry for those points. What's the better bang for the buck? Now I'm not arguing either way because I've never played either. If the answer is Pask in a Vanquisher, I'll go that route.

What is your army composed of? Post a link to your army list on dakka so someone may help.

If you're flexible with detachments, I highly recommend the Imperial Armour Command Vanquisher with Beast Hunter shells. BS4 (with options for other interesting wargear) and a S8 AP2 Blast Instant Death. Plus, unlike the Medusa, it doesn't replace the standard Vanquisher ammunition (so you can still use a 2D6 AP ordnance shot). Being able to 1-shot Dreadknights is pretty fun.

Leman Russ tanks are Troops choices in the detachment too, so no "tax" if you were planning on going tank-heavy anyway.

If that's not your poison, I would go with a Paskquisher over a Vindicare. The maths are there for the Vindicare to get their points back, but I find that they tend to die before really putting out any serious damage. Now a Culexus or a Callidus might bring something to the table that Guard really doesn't have (infiltration/assault/anti-psyker).

DoW

 DogOfWar wrote:
If you're flexible with detachments, I highly recommend the Imperial Armour Command Vanquisher with Beast Hunter shells. BS4 (with options for other interesting wargear) and a S8 AP2 Blast Instant Death. Plus, unlike the Medusa, it doesn't replace the standard Vanquisher ammunition (so you can still use a 2D6 AP ordnance shot). Being able to 1-shot Dreadknights is pretty fun.

Leman Russ tanks are Troops choices in the detachment too, so no "tax" if you were planning on going tank-heavy anyway.

If that's not your poison, I would go with a Paskquisher over a Vindicare. The maths are there for the Vindicare to get their points back, but I find that they tend to die before really putting out any serious damage. Now a Culexus or a Callidus might bring something to the table that Guard really doesn't have (infiltration/assault/anti-psyker).

DoW

Thanks. I've already got the model for the Vanquisher anyway, so I'll pay the points and run Paskquisher. I was already going to run a Callidus as well. Model should be here next week. Appreciate the advice.