Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Reading into the background of some of the genetically-modified forces of the Imperium, a few things came to mind that I want to bring up for discussion:

1. What is the genetic origin of the Grey Knights? By the time the knights errant arrived on Titan Malcador had already assembled an entire chapter of initiates for them to train. The only other chapter with the same psychic potential for creating a chapter like the Grey Knights would be the Thousand Sons, although the Grey Knights clearly have not suffered any mutation/taint/fall like the Thousand Sons are prone to with the flesh change. It is also unlikely that the Grey Knights would have a varied origin of genetic code resulting from using any of the existing marine chapters and their corresponding knights errant.

2. If the Grey Knights are descended from the gene-seed of the Emperor rather than any of the Primarchs, why do they draw most of their strength from their psychic abilities and their advanced wargear, rather than being in a completely different league from Astartes like the Adeptus Custodes are? If the two share the same genetic source, then have the Custodes been imbued with the Emperor's physical prowess while the Grey Knights retain some echo of the Emperor's psychic might which is amplified by the abilities of recruits taken from the Black Ships?

3. Of all the Emperor's sons, why do so many bear inherent genetic mutations? Is it due to exposure to the Warp during their scattering, or is it a result of the world on which they landed? It seems to me that those Primarchs who eventually turned traitor were cruelly placed i very grim environments in contrast to their loyalist brothers, yet it is the loyalists who exhibit such a strong affinity for genetic 'flaws' (The Canis Helix, The Red Thirst, The Black Rage, The Flesh Change*)

Any discussion and clarification is welcome!

1. During the burning of Prospero, a bunch of black ships and null maidens accompanied the Space Wolves. Partly to provide anti-psyker support, but also to capture and bring back as many psykers as possible. It also seems lilke something was done to stabilize the flesh change in one of the remaining Thousand Sons loyalists who was suffering from the effects as a result of using his abilities to help the bulk of the White Scars get to Terra. Note that this Thousand Son also has an interesting name that suggests his eventual fate.

Likely some of the looted psykers from Prospero became initiates. Malcador also has had several of the Knight Errants out fetching shiploads of psykers. There's a short story in one of the Horus Heresy anthologies where a former Thousand Sons legionary has taken control of a stranded refugee ship full of psykers and take them to Titan.

2. Also Custodes don't make use of gene seed. The process to create one is a lot more time consuming/expensive than it is to make a Marine which is why they are at different power levels. Aside from the slight changes in gene seed, the Grey Knights follow the same processes and have the same additional organs as other space marines.

3. One of the Horus Heresy novels implies that the Primarchs were each imbued with powers from the warp as part of their creation. This suggests that their mutations probably would have manifested even if they weren't scattered.

Thanks for the reply! I wasn't aware that the Custodes utilized a completely different system than the Astartes; I was under the impression that they simply used a more pure template and had greater care taken in their construction. As for the psykers from Prospero and the Thousand Sons, who was the fellow with the interesting name, if you don't mind spoiling it for me?

Interesting connection! Thanks for the information

Regarding number 3, I think the main reason is grimdark. Marines are supposed to be the shining beacon of protection for the imperium but the basis of the background demands that they have some flaws. The genetic taints were also useful in selling multiple variants of the same army.

Despite all his grandiosity, the Emperor was still ultimately a human being, where his Primarchs were something distinctly other than human. It may well be that his genes being the core of the template this time around is the reason they're stable as they are despite being psykers (though, the fact that this is the last attempt he made after 20 legions worth of iterations and refinements may have contributed too.)

We know the emperor used the genetic templates of his Primarchs to design the gene seeds of their respective legions, but since he had those legions ready to go as he collected them, we know the samples predate their being warp-abducted. In particular, we know a number of legions were exhibiting signs of significant flaws that could ultimately make them unsustainable, the Thousand Sons in particular are described as a near-total wash by the time Magnus was found, and he spent a long time fixing them through force of his will. I don't think these are the result of exposure to the warp any more than any other mutation is, it's simply proof that for all his greatness the Emperor is still a man, and perfection is always just out of reach.

This is further backed up by the fact that the greatest mortal mind in the Imperium was able to improve upon the process after only ten-thousand years of research and experimentation.

Awesome insights guys, thanks!