Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I know the 40k universe isn't real so no matter what happens they'll rewrite lore and such to keep everything going but really... if the universe was real how would it all end? I think Tyranids would be the last race and just end up eating everyone before moving onto the next galaxy. It's an interesting thought to know that no matter what any faction does there is always this dark figure there that will end them all. I would like a line going something like: "All the bitterness, all the name calling, all the slaughter of the innocence... It was children fighting over meaningless battles... The great demons of the warp fell to the swarm of Tyranids that rage from galaxy to galaxy consuming all in their wake. The enlightened Elder, as old as Terra itself, were helpless against the lumbering beasts. The God Emperor himself could not hold the floods as the empire fell to a foe so great in size it is beyond our mortal comprehension...". Something like that would be cool for a fan fiction or something. I think it would also be awesome if there was like a narrative campaign someone writes about all the races putting aside their differences to hold off the endless waves of Tyranids. Basically you gather as many players up as possible and play them against endless Tyranids until everyone dies. Also if this was how it all ends, Tyranids would probably be left fighting Orks for a long time while everyone else died off.

Dont count on it, if the gods unite the nids are screwed pure and simple, if they become more than a nuisance to them, if the gods direct the entire eye to empty (actually command it directly) and go for the nids, they are dead.

Necrons.

Let's face it, they've survived far, far worse. They took down not one, but two God like species.

Many of their Tomb Worlds are dead Worlds, barren balls of airless rock, and thus of no interest to Chaos God or Tyranids.

The only species with any chance of successfully stopping their mass resurrection are the Eldar, who are too few and too busy to possibly succeed.

They're also completely non-reliant on The Warp for anything. Yes, that makes them slow. It also means they can potentially gather forces where others can't reach them.

But above all......they're in no rush. Time simply isn't a factor for them at all.

Yeah i'd say Nids and Crons. Chaos is powerful, but they're utterly dependant on the sentient beings of this galaxy from which they derive their power. It's their key weakness. Kill us and they die too.

The only thing that might just stop the Nids is if the milky way is so utterly effed up that it's actually putting up a fight compared to the other galaxies the nids may or may not have consumed.

And also, as a necron, 'nids are a problem that other people have. Sit, wait, sleep.

Well, necrons woke up to fight tyranids because tyranids threatened to destroy all organic life. So Necrons have to kill Nids or else they will never have souls and be forever sad.

I hate the Tyranid fluff for this reason, I don't like the fact that they really are endless and that the hive-fleets we've seen so far are just scouts and that we'll all get eaten eventually. To me it's lazy and it breaks the immersion for me, like okay we'll all die what's the point then ? It's like you're playing a D&D campaign and you struggle with your party to beat the evil dude and then the DM just decides it won't go with his scenario if they win so he makes him invincible and immensely powerful.

Especially when the Tyranids don't do anything remotely interesting, they just eat everything and go away... That's such a nihilist point of view in the lore that I prefer not to think about it. The fact that I dislike their design and all of that makes me even more resentful towards that faction.

Or adapt their tactics.

There's at least one Overlord out there with his very own menagerie.

Given they're not at all affected by the Shadow In The Warp, they could, feasibly if not necessarily easily, pack up and circumvent the Hive Fleets, stashing stuff away on Segemntum's long since ravaged.

Terraforming is a doddle for Necrons too - I mean, how hard can that be compared to snuffing out stars on a whim?

That in itself is a helluva tactic. Let a system fall, then send the star Nova. That's one Hive Fleet or at least tendril wrecked, with nothing surviving to learn how to adapt. When push comes to shove, you can track and potentially bait multiple fleets, and take them out in concert, dealing horrendous blows.

All about that Necron patience.

 Aaranis wrote:
I hate the Tyranid fluff for this reason, I don't like the fact that they really are endless and that the hive-fleets we've seen so far are just scouts and that we'll all get eaten eventually. To me it's lazy and it breaks the immersion for me, like okay we'll all die what's the point then ? It's like you're playing a D&D campaign and you struggle with your party to beat the evil dude and then the DM just decides it won't go with his scenario if they win so he makes him invincible and immensely powerful.

Especially when the Tyranids don't do anything remotely interesting, they just eat everything and go away... That's such a nihilist point of view in the lore that I prefer not to think about it. The fact that I dislike their design and all of that makes me even more resentful towards that faction.

I too dislike nihilism and think it's decidedly dull and uninteresting (in the wrong context). I'm glad Games Workshop has moved past unending nihilism in it's fantasy setting and isn't all "GrimDerp all the time" in 40k. Yeah, the galaxy is probably screwed but there's still a chance we might still make it.

My beef with the Tyranids is all biotechnology all the time. It's silly and wasteful. But that's another topic for another day.

if necrons just waited theyd be no planets left , im guessing however advanced necrons still need resources to create and maintain

i feel like eventually Imperium and Eldar will have to join and become allies, maybe even with Tau, though less likley

daemons in general dont like fighting; Necrons, Tyranids and vice versa, as neither allow the other to sustain, entertain, or prolong them.

Chaos will want souls and therefor be more agaisnt these taking over, as they cant exist without sentient life,

Orks, just want to kill, and will fight all enemys, can be directed and sometimes paid-off, tricked, incentivised to fight a specific enemy

Tau, just not large enough to defeat any other enemys totally, and chaos is much less interested in them, as they have no presence

This means all races are against necrons and tyranids with varying degrees of being able to deal with them, and being in each others sight, let alone allies

BUT since tyranids come from else where who knows how long they have been consuming galaxies, there may just be too many to ever stop, this leaves Chaos and the warp as the best hope, as the galaxy only has a finite amount of resources,compared to the infinicy and 'non-physics' of the warp

The Eldar gods, Gork and Mork, the emporer turned into a warp god, could all make chaos a very different place, especially if Slaanesh is killed by eldar

imperium are at diminishing losses though, every planet lost to; Chaos, tyranids, Necrons, is a permant loss and irretrievable. Orks being a semi-permant change

maybe all life moves the warp/webway

 Aaranis wrote:
I hate the Tyranid fluff for this reason, I don't like the fact that they really are endless and that the hive-fleets we've seen so far are just scouts and that we'll all get eaten eventually. To me it's lazy and it breaks the immersion for me, like okay we'll all die what's the point then ? It's like you're playing a D&D campaign and you struggle with your party to beat the evil dude and then the DM just decides it won't go with his scenario if they win so he makes him invincible and immensely powerful.

Especially when the Tyranids don't do anything remotely interesting, they just eat everything and go away... That's such a nihilist point of view in the lore that I prefer not to think about it. The fact that I dislike their design and all of that makes me even more resentful towards that faction.

Nah, it's not quite like that.

The point in the Tyranids is that we just don't know how many there are. Are we fighting a force we can beat or is everything pointless? If it's pointless, should we still fight?

It's more like if you're playing D&D and you beat the evil guy. Then you look over the hill behind him and catch a glimpse of the real enemy force.

What are you going to do? Roll over and die? Nah, you fight on in the next episode!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JoeForce wrote:
if necrons just waited theyd be no planets left , im guessing however advanced necrons still need resources to create and maintain

i feel like eventually Imperium and Eldar will have to join and become allies, maybe even with Tau, though less likley

daemons in general dont like fighting; Necrons, Tyranids and vice versa, as neither allow the other to sustain, entertain, or prolong them.

Chaos will want souls and therefor be more agaisnt these taking over, as they cant exist without sentient life,

Orks, just want to kill, and will fight all enemys, can be directed and sometimes paid-off, tricked, incentivised to fight a specific enemy

Tau, just not large enough to defeat any other enemys totally, and chaos is much less interested in them, as they have no presence

This means all races are against necrons and tyranids with varying degrees of being able to deal with them, and being in each others sight, let alone allies

BUT since tyranids come from else where who knows how long they have been consuming galaxies, there may just be too many to ever stop, this leaves Chaos and the warp as the best hope, as the galaxy only has a finite amount of resources,compared to the infinicy and 'non-physics' of the warp

The Eldar gods, Gork and Mork, the emporer turned into a warp god, could all make chaos a very different place, especially if Slaanesh is killed by eldar

imperium are at diminishing losses though, every planet lost to; Chaos, tyranids, Necrons, is a permant loss and irretrievable. Orks being a semi-permant change

maybe all life moves the warp/webway

Chaos isn't limitless in its resources. Its power is derived from the minds of mortals. We are its resource.

Kill us and they diminish in power. It's why the Chaos Gods should be very, very worried about 'nids and 'crons...

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
I hate the Tyranid fluff for this reason, I don't like the fact that they really are endless and that the hive-fleets we've seen so far are just scouts and that we'll all get eaten eventually. To me it's lazy and it breaks the immersion for me, like okay we'll all die what's the point then ? It's like you're playing a D&D campaign and you struggle with your party to beat the evil dude and then the DM just decides it won't go with his scenario if they win so he makes him invincible and immensely powerful.

Especially when the Tyranids don't do anything remotely interesting, they just eat everything and go away... That's such a nihilist point of view in the lore that I prefer not to think about it. The fact that I dislike their design and all of that makes me even more resentful towards that faction.

I too dislike nihilism and think it's decidedly dull and uninteresting (in the wrong context). I'm glad Games Workshop has moved past unending nihilism in it's fantasy setting and isn't all "GrimDerp all the time" in 40k. Yeah, the galaxy is probably screwed but there's still a chance we might still make it.

My beef with the Tyranids is all biotechnology all the time. It's silly and wasteful. But that's another topic for another day.

My take on the Nids is that, ultimately, the Hive Mind is intelligent.

If the rest of the Galaxy can put up a stern enough defence, the Hive Mind could well be permanently driven off to seek easier pickings elsewhere. And I'd wager given the state of Nids when they were first encountered, this level of resistance is something entirely new.

Consider animal defences against predators. For creatures like Turtles and Crustaceons, it's largely about being too much bother for all but the most desperate of predators. And that tactic is successful for the most part. So it's feasible the Hive Mind may eventually decide the sums don't add up, and move on elsewhere. Of course, I suspect it wouldn't be so sporting as to withdraw its forces - simply not bother sending any more in. So whilst the main threat is dealt with, there's still a helluva mop up operation waiting the victors.

I can't remember which 6th/7th ed codex this story was in (GKs, Daemons or Nids) but I enjoyed the story in which Nids were invading a planet that had GKs on it trying to stop a Chaos ritual. Because of the invasion, the GKs failed and a full on Incursion happened.
At first, the Nids ignored the Daemons as they recognized that they possessed no physical matter to consume. But then the Hive Mind realized that they were "rival predators" and began to attack them.

If there was to ever be a 40K End times, I picture it would be a large scale version of this story. Multiple Factions fighting each other in different ways.
I could easily see the Imperium alley with Eldar to fight against a growing Chaos threat, when suddenly a Hive fleet invades several worlds at once and the largest ever Ork Waaagh! joins in the "fun"
This could awaken several still sleeping Necron worlds.

Basically, it would end up being such a massive free-for-all that no single faction would have a clear advantage.
All this death and mass destruction could slow the advance of the entire Nid race to the point that they would have to start cannibalizing any incoming Hive Ships just to not starve.

-

Raises another background question....

If a Demonic Incursion happened on a Guard world, such as Valhalla or Tallarn, and Orks got involved, would the Orks naturally focus more on the Daemons, on account they're far more fighty, and you're much less likely to get yourself perished before getting properly stuck in?

No civilization with a low breeding rate will survive.

Necrons? LOL. How many newcrons are replacing the (fully) slain ones?

Chaos? No. The rift will weaken, the eye will close or at least droop. They will be shut out forever.

Humanity / Eldar / Tau? Far, far too slow at breeding. They will age and die.

That leaves Nids v Orks. The Nids will eventually evolve to be Ork-like (after eating so many Orks) and they will begin breeding by spores, effectively meaning the races will merge.

It will be Tyranorks for the win.

Chaos kills everything, I guess.

Even the stu-powers of the Necrons can't hold back Chaos now that GW has decreed them to be The Greatest Threat

Hehe... as an Ork player I like the idea of Ghaz calling every clan to every exist in the galaxy! The pure psychic energy from the idea of the largest Waaagh ever against the biggest and toughest enemy in the universe will stop every ork in their track to all be lured to this huge fight of trillions and trillions of Orks! Then because there is so many Gork and Mork will come down from the warply heavens themselves to join the fight! MUAHAHAHAAAAAA! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH! (Also maybe with that many Orks in one place they will believe they can win and so will win?)

reading through this again i have realised (not that i want 40k to end) the most metal and best ending is;

yes orks win, they can adapt and the best at what they do
they wipe every race out, spread throughout the galaxy, loot the various tech of the races homeworlds they occupy....

over a massive amount of time, they become/assimiliate/evolve into the races that were alive beforehand.... aaaaand the whole plot starts again, with intelligent pointy ear orks (eldar) watching weak war like humans crawl out the sea
with the 'old ones' shouting this was their incomplete plan for orks all along, to wipe out then evolve into

Just leave the Tyranids out, they never had intelligent opposition before. Insects specialize, intelligent life has to know multiple roles. The Milky Way will be their grave.

Tyranids and Orks are the only two races whose survival is guaranteed.

That's because they are extragalactic, the Milky Way could explode, annihilating everything inside of it, but both Nids and Orks would still survive in other galaxies. The universe is a big place, no one would care if a galaxy disappeared.

"They all died. The End"

Well they used that one for WFB, so hopefully they can be more creative for 40k.

Orks.

They have been around a long time, they spread throughout the galaxy long before Mankind, and it doesn't seem possible to remove them once they have been somewhere. I don't think the Tyranids approach of consuming all bio-mass is a big enough advantage to upset the Ork culture.

All the other races would be organized in trying to hold back the Tyranid advance, and end up getting crushed. Without a form of natural opposition to keep Ork populations from swelling, the Galaxy would suffer a surfeit of greenskin hooligans doing whatever they please.

This would lead to considerable conflict with the Tyranids, which would result in lots of Orks being reduced to spores. Tyranids colonize through the use of spores, and so do Orks, in the form of fungus. I would trust Ork fungus to eventually overcome Tyranid spores any day. Tyranids would suddenly have a microscopic fight on their hands, which I doubt they are prepared for.

If nids are so endless why do they bother creating bodies and actually landing on the planets? Why don't they simply consume planets with their biomass?

 argonak wrote:

"They all died. The End"

Well they used that one for WFB, so hopefully they can be more creative for 40k.

Well the planet core flew through space to be caught by a dragon and now they live across multiple planets/universes/dimensions/goodness know what. Killing everything would have made more sense.

I think it's obvious. The imperium would conquer the stars and rule the universe forever.

Why do you even ask, citizen? This sounds highly suspicious, wouldn't you agree?

This topic has been floating around a lot lately. Maybe gw:s current fluff direction has got people to think about the end of 40k. By the "end" I assume you mean the end for the 40k factions, since eventually every sun in the milky way galaxy will turn supernova and life will be impossible, 'cept for the Necrons who may or may not be alive, or any race that can permanently Hibernate (Astartes, Tyranids, orc spores...).

Orcs and Tyranids are the only beings in 40k that's confimed to live outside the milky way. During probing of other galaxies the mechanicus recieved ork signatures wherever they looked, so there's that. The Tyranids whole shtick is that they're from beyond our galaxy, so there's that as well.

I of course don't have an answer to this question. I don't think Tyranids will "win" in 40k. They've been beaten many times. They can not replentish biomass vs neither deamon nor necrons. They've failed to devour the tau (despite many attempts, a race they should have swalloed years ago) and have suffered a few massive deafeats. For instance both for hive fleet behemoth at the battle for Macrage and Hive fleet kraken (most notably) at Ichar IV. We also know from the Ciaphas Cain series that the tyranids are infact not united in their invasion and hive fleets will devour one another. What "tyranid politics" governs this is anybodies guess though. Of course the tyranids have the biggest feeling of a galactic doom about them but with the galaxy litteraly shattering I'd say the setting is spiralling towards a chaos victory. Although we do have the possibility of the Emperor becomming the star child and cleaning that up. There's also Ynnead who does not seems to have done much since being born really.

Edit:

RedCommander wrote:
I think it's obvious. The imperium would conquer the stars and rule the universe forever.

Why do you even ask, citizen? This sounds highly suspicious, wouldn't you agree?

Exalted.

RedCommander wrote:
I think it's obvious. The imperium would conquer the stars and rule the universe forever.

Why do you even ask, citizen? This sounds highly suspicious, wouldn't you agree?

Me'm sorry meeb asked! Me'll jus' git back ter mi boyz... *cough* ermmm Meeb mean uumies! An keep up mi wurk on removin' awl da weedy mek ter a secret locashun dat weeb totaley donz use ter makz trukks.

 koooaei wrote:
If nids are so endless why do they bother creating bodies and actually landing on the planets? Why don't they simply consume planets with their biomass?

Because they are not truly endless. There is only a fixed amount of biomass in the universe, and there is no way that their conversion is 100% efficient. There is a finite number of them, and the longer they fight and digest (especially when they digest themselves) the more depleted they become.

 JimOnMars wrote:

That leaves Nids v Orks. The Nids will eventually evolve to be Ork-like (after eating so many Orks) and they will begin breeding by spores, effectively meaning the races will merge.

It will be Tyranorks for the win.

Tyranorks? That is quite possible the scariest possible outcome I've every heard for 40K.

Biologically, I could see this being more like the Nids consuming and thus eradicating the Ork race, only to be genetically changed to be Ork-like.
On the "warp-side" of it, I could see Gork-n-Mork taking over the Hive mind. So you end up with a true amalgamation of the races.
Imagine these new Tyranorks beginning to use crude bio-mechanical weapons. They would also be immune to the Warp, yet still very psychically capable.

-

 Galef wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

That leaves Nids v Orks. The Nids will eventually evolve to be Ork-like (after eating so many Orks) and they will begin breeding by spores, effectively meaning the races will merge.

It will be Tyranorks for the win.

Tyranorks? That is quite possible the scariest possible outcome I've every heard for 40K.

Biologically, I could see this being more like the Nids consuming and thus eradicating the Ork race, only to be genetically changed to be Ork-like.
On the "warp-side" of it, I could see Gork-n-Mork taking over the Hive mind. So you end up with a true amalgamation of the races.
Imagine these new Tyranorks beginning to use crude bio-mechanical weapons. They would also be immune to the Warp, yet still very psychically capable.

-

Also, think choppa boyz with rending klawz...and as they get bigga', they turn into Carnifnobs.

Welcome to the Milky Way.

 koooaei wrote:
If nids are so endless why do they bother creating bodies and actually landing on the planets? Why don't they simply consume planets with their biomass?

Big picture, that is essentially what they are doing. Their foot soldiers could easily be seen as stomach bacteria when looked at from a distance.