Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Wondering what your thoughts are on the teases we've seen so far for Eldar? personally, I find them to be a bit lackluster with the exception of one Iyanden strategem. I dont see much that will put them on par with AM or SM. Obviously we'll have to wait till the dex comes out to make final impressions but I'd like to get a feel for what the community thinks? maybe I'm missing something...

No you'll suffer the same fate as chaos after the 3.5 dex, like a red headed stepchild you'll only get scraps from now on.

hobojebus wrote:
No you'll suffer the same fate as chaos after the 3.5 dex, like a red headed stepchild you'll only get scraps from now on.

Chaos just got a whole army built out of a sub faction.

hobojebus wrote:
No you'll suffer the same fate as chaos after the 3.5 dex, like a red headed stepchild you'll only get scraps from now on.

Every Eldar codex release ever has been insanely powerful going back to 2E, theyve never had anything less than an immediate top tier codex drop, every Eldar codex ever released has been stellar in terms of power level. If we get anything different this time, it'll be a first.

From what we've seen so far however, no real judgements can be made yet. There's some potential for hideously abusive mechanics from whats being teased, but cost will matter a lot.

We don't know if/what psychic powers have changed either. I want to repaint my scan bikes from Samm Hain to Alaitoc to benefit from that tasty -1 trait + conceal stacking for a -2 to hit, but I need to know they didn't change conceal first.

If conceal does stack with that Alaitoc trait though... hovering 20 odd scan bikes at 20" out with a -2 to hit against them? Tasty...

IIMO they don't reach AM / CHAOS / SM tier

Have to wait and see on the point reductions.

12 point rangers are leagues better than 20 point rangers. They start doing 33%(ish) damage per points on a lot of support characters (cheap psykers for instance) and that is bordering on being viable. They do 28% damage on basic MEQ - which isn't exceptional but isn't garbage tier. With Alaitoc you would be looking at -2 to hit and a 3+ save in cover so pretty tough too.

Right out of the gate, lemme just say I'm horribly bias towards Biel Tan and Alaitoc because those constituted my Eldar armies since 4th edition.

That said, This release has been overall positive for me. Biel Tan's rule isn't very fluffy from my perspective, but it isn't a bad trait overall and between it and Iyanden we might actually see Guardians being played again. Alaitoc's trait, the sniper reduction and other buffs has made me very excited to play my pathfinders again.

The Biel Tan rule feels crappy, but Aspect Host units got huge points decreases.

I'm starting to worry we're looking at a repeat of the CWE OP pattern.

All looks like a very powerful boost to Eldar.

large and numerous point drops
powerful attributes and stragtems
Attributes that effect ALL units unlike any other Codex to date

Potentially in the same league as Imperial Guard which is bad news for all previous codexes and of course everyone still strugling with a Index army.

Eldar are going to be good.

 Mr Morden wrote:


Potentially in the same league as Imperial Guard which is bad news for all previous codexes and of course everyone still strugling with a Index army.

Really?

AM got:

- Conscripts
- T 8 double shooting Leman Russes
- Cheap and strong artillery
- Scions
- Powerful HQs and Strong force-multipliers

And this BEFORE appliyng any army trait or strategem

Tell us how Craftworld eldar can compete with this

FarseerReborn wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Potentially in the same league as Imperial Guard which is bad news for all previous codexes and of course everyone still strugling with a Index army.

Really?

AM got:

- Conscripts
- T 8 double shooting Leman Russes
- Cheap and strong artillery
- Scions
- Powerful HQs and Strong force-multipliers

And this BEFORE appliyng any army trait or strategem

Tell us how Craftworld eldar can compete with this

Well double firing Fire Prisms that ignore range, LoS and reroll hits and wounds for 1cp seems like a good start.

Uninspired, lazy copy paste work.

There are several ways they could have given the craftworlds unique flavor without making them an OP joke.

Power wise should land a right around IG/AM, once again making powerful, but feeling uninspired.

The things we will most likely see is dire avenger spam, war walker spam and depending in the cost scatpacks.

The wraith spam will be curbed by cost/horde meta.


Oh crap.... and reading todays notes thing... oh joy fireprisms.

Everything except the Troops seems reasonably strong. Nothing about Rangers or Dire Avengers or Guardians sounds all that compelling, though at least Rangers and Dire Avengers aren't abysmal anymore.

The changes to Aspects sound nice but not like too much. Banshees at least have a niche now, since they can advance and charge and ignore overwatch. I'm unsure if that will be enough. Hawks are a reasonable long-range harassment unit that can go for objectives. Dark Reapers got cheaper, which is a little worrying since they were already good.

If the guy on the twitch stream got it right, Windriders with twin catapults sound like they might be excellent. Shining Spears were just on the edge of being good and might have gotten pushed over (or shot over if twin catapults got a lot cheaper).

Hemlocks apparently got buffed ?????

The balance between Craftworld traits seems pretty bad.

It is a lot like the AdMech codex: it's fine, but kind of boring and bland. We see a lot of copypasta traits from other books, nothing that really fits into psyker or wraith themes beyond very generalist changes.

So it's not bad, but it's a little disappointing because it could be much better.

It's nice, but note the Fire Prism doubletap isn't grinding advance - it still gets -1 to hit if it moved. But if you use the CP (then both have to fire at the same target), it rerolls...

I'm excited for my Eldar playing friends.

The extra toughness on wraithguards and stuff is a pretty nice buff. Mathematically, increasing toughness is the best way to increase survivability.

What sets it well apart from admech for me was that the units that actually needed help, got it.

If we got the admech codex and we got points drops on sicarians and kataphrons, a Cawl/Kastellan nerf, A ballistarii buff, a TPD buff, and some new stratagem that made Ruststalkers/Fulgurites usable, and a bunch of weapon option rebalances I would have been completely happy with it.

Heck, I would've been happy with half the number of Forgeworld traits to choose from if I could've gotten QOL improvements for all the unusable melee units, worthless wargear options, and a solution to the ol' monobuild blues we're currently living through.

The point reductions have me excited for Orks who right now have notoriously overpriced junk for what is supposed to be a cheap hord army. XD

My fingers are crossed for T9 WKs. I know the twitch review says no "significant" changes to WKs, but that just seems misleading. Going from T8 to T9 wouldn't be all that significant to most weapons and "feels" right when you compare WLs to Dreads and WKs to Knights.
In both cases, the Wraith-construct is more expensive, but has better T to compensate.
Otherwise, you really need to drop about 80pts to be on par with a Knight

Also being T9 would have an affect on S8/9 weapons. Ya know, the weapons that drop a WK in a single turn and make it garbage.
Since WKs don't appear to be compatible with any of the deployment shenanigans reviewed so far, WK really need SOMETHING to make their existence justifiable.

-

They already said WKs haven't changed at all, nor in cost, nor in stats

FarseerReborn wrote:
They already said WKs haven't changed at all, nor in cost, nor in stats

Was this actually said by GW, or is this second-hand misinterpretation of them not saying anything at all about the WK and people just assuming nothing has changed?
If nothing changed AND they cannot drop in using a stratagem, than GW really and truly felt that they sold enough last edition. I'd really hoped GW no longer had this sales mentality.
I guess I'll have to continue to use mine as the (even MORE overpriced) Skathach WK

-

Sim-Life wrote:
Potentially in the same league as Imperial Guard which is bad news for all previous codexes and of course everyone still strugling with a Index army.

Hmm, I'm a big fan of today's points reductions, but I dunno about matching the options IG has. That will take a lot of game testing and tournaments to figure out.

I have high hopes that it will match up with the standards of -NORMAL- chaos and space marine lists though. When the Primarchs get involved though, things get tricky, as it seems like Eldar lose their rules when their Primarch equivalents get into the fight, which doesn't happen to Marines, Chaos or Imperial Guard... pretty big handicap there.

So for casual games, Eldar should be in a good place. In competitive games, they have no equivalents to the big stuff that the Imperium and Chaos throw out.

Well double firing Fire Prisms that ignore range, LoS and reroll hits and wounds for 1cp seems like a good start.

Only one of the Fire Prisms ignore LOS. You always need one to be in range and in LoS. And they're still more expensive and with a worse weapon profile than a Leman Russ, who also gets to fire twice.

Fire Prisms have gone from being "haha, you brought a fire prism? Why bother taking it out of the box?" to being "Oh, you brought a Fire Prism, I had better keep an eye on that". They're certainly not "Oh, you brought a Fire Prism, I might as well go home".

All things considered, the Traits were lacklustre and the stratagems range between pointlessly expensive - mediocre - good, but the real winner of the codex was the points reductions. Sorely needed, and have made a lot more unit options viable.

We still don't have any conscripts, or any real ways to swiftly murder conscripts, but we do at least have troops choices now that don't suck and tanks that are actually worth using.

Only thing missing is the 100 point reduction on Wraithknights. As it is right now, they're still awful. I wonder if they sold so many in 7th that they just don't want to bother making any more.

I think wraithknights would need more than 100 point drop to be decent. At 450~ points after weapons, they wouldn't stand a cold chance in hell against Magnus or Mortarion who run right around there. They don't have to be at that level of course, but who wants to pay 450 points for two h. wraithcannons and two shuriken cannons? I think they need to be around 350 after everything for people to *want* to use them. Even at 350...I mean, you're probably still better off taking two hemlocks for about the same point cost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quick thought...I don't have my forgeworld book with me but does it still say Wraithseers can't be your warlord? Because if it doesn't, that warlord trait that lets you snipe characters could be pretty solid on the wraithseer. I know I wouldn't mind shooting at an enemy character with a D Cannon....

WKs don't need T9. Enough with the Eldar being snowflakes.

drakerocket wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quick thought...I don't have my forgeworld book with me but does it still say Wraithseers can't be your warlord? Because if it doesn't, that warlord trait that lets you snipe characters could be pretty solid on the wraithseer. I know I wouldn't mind shooting at an enemy character with a D Cannon....

Errr..... looking at my FW book, there's nothing that suggests that a Wraithseer can't be your warlord. So yeh... D-Cannon sniper, I guess. Awesome.

Or for people who can't or don't run forgeworld, an Autarch with a sniper reaper launcher might be interesting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
WKs don't need T9. Enough with the Eldar being snowflakes.

The current "special snowflake" ability of the Wraithknight, is that it costs equal to or more than an Imperial Knight, but is worse in every possible way. I mean sure, that's special... but only in the "takes a separate bus to school and eats glue" kind of special. Wraithknights are currently paperweights.

Grav Tanks though. They're looking good.

Martel732 wrote:
WKs don't need T9. Enough with the Eldar being snowflakes.

But we already have precedence for this. Wraithgaurd and Wraithlords are both higher T than their Imperial counterparts (Termies and Dreads)
So not only would being T9 MAKE SENSE compared to a Imp Knight, but it is the only reasonable purpose for the 80pt different between the units.

I don't want to be a snowflake, I am just grasping at anything to make WKs playable. Being overpowered in a prior edition is not a good reason to make a unit hot garbage now. It's not fair, especially on a model that is so expensive.

-

 Galef wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
WKs don't need T9. Enough with the Eldar being snowflakes.

But we already have precedence for this. Wraithgaurd and Wraithlords are both higher T than their Imperial counterparts (Termies and Dreads)
So not only would being T9 MAKE SENSE compared to a Imp Knight, but it is the only reasonable purpose for the 80pt different between the units.

I don't want to be a snowflake, I am just grasping at anything to make WKs playable. Being overpowered in a prior edition is not a good reason to make a unit hot garbage now. It's not fair, especially on a model that is so expensive.

-

To be fair, there is a reasonable potential for the 80 point difference between the two units.

That reason? Keyword: <Craftworld>
Knights don't get any real benefits from being tied to one army or another, aside from a few incidentals(Repairing vehicles or things of that nature) while from the looks of things Wraithknights are benefiting from everything their Craftworld gives them.

<Imperial>?

Most of the <Craftworld> buffs have reasons they don't apply to the WK.