Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Just a random question that popped in my mind - namely who has access/type of resources to go on Pilgrimage ?


I use Pilgrimages as an example - because these aren't Military or Rogue Trader Dynasty mercantile affairs. Its an activity that can be undertaken as a private citizen of the Imperium.

I guess this is really a question of how much access a person has to move within a Sector, a System, or to another place completely.

I mean your average denizen of Necromunda doesn't seem like he or she will get off the Planet unless they sign up with the Guard.

Yet out in the Calixis Sector, enough Zealous Pilgrims cane make it the shrine world of Saint Drusus that they can become "Maccabian Janissaries."

Can a person in a well organized Sector, take Ultramar for instance, board a ship Tarentus to visit Masali (assuming they have the appropriate resources to afford a trip)?

Or should i just assume commercial non-military related interstellar travel is a rare thing?

But if it is - then how do those Pilgrimages happen? Is it all just subsidized somehow via the Ecclesiarchy?

There’s likely lots of beaurocracy to go through to gain clearance into the Sol system, let alone Terra itself. On top of that, I’ll wager that only planetary elites like governors or business moguls can afford the trip.

I imagine that the Munitorum.set up pilgrimage flights quite.regularly. certainly in all the black library books that have some reference to the subject, the shrine worlds have a lot of standard peasants/mooks sitting about and trying to scrape together enough influence or cash to actually get into the shrine areas.

There is also references somewhere to pilgrimages being something that every citizen is encouraged to do at least once in their lives so they can give all their worldly.goods and wealth to the Munitorum in a righteous example of charity...

 Flinty wrote:
I imagine that the Munitorum.set up pilgrimage flights quite.regularly. certainly in all the black library books that have some reference to the subject, the shrine worlds have a lot of standard peasants/mooks sitting about and trying to scrape together enough influence or cash to actually get into the shrine areas.

There is also references somewhere to pilgrimages being something that every citizen is encouraged to do at least once in their lives so they can give all their worldly.goods and wealth to the Munitorum in a righteous example of charity...

So it's a bit like going to Warhammer World if you're a continental!

There has to be a lot of traffic for actual Shrine worlds to exist.

Probably plenty of traffic back and forth, a lot of which never makes it to it’s intended destination. Quite a hazardous journey...

 Aetare wrote:
Probably plenty of traffic back and forth, a lot of which never makes it to it’s intended destination. Quite a hazardous journey...

Reaching Terra intact is an accomplishment in of itself given the dangers of warp travel. Lysander of the Imperial Fists was made famous before becoming a marine and recruited mainly because he survived an Ork WAAAGH! and a rebellion on his pilgrimage to Terra while his parents perished before they could make it there.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Aetare wrote:
Probably plenty of traffic back and forth, a lot of which never makes it to it’s intended destination. Quite a hazardous journey...

Reaching Terra intact is an accomplishment in of itself given the dangers of warp travel. Lysander of the Imperial Fists was made famous before becoming a marine and recruited mainly because he survived an Ork WAAAGH! and a rebellion on his pilgrimage to Terra while his parents perished before they could make it there.

That’s one hell of a backstory! I had no idea about the captain...

Plenty of pilgrims traveling around. It's not like 40k is all super dark with all people downtrodden with no means. Yes there are those kind of people but for large part it's not that super different to what we have here.

For examples of pilgrimages just read some Gaunt's Ghost books. Book 4 is for example good one on that but there's others. There's entire fleets of ships used to carry pilgrims around. Albeit not best shaped and they are rather small ships but plenty of those.

Part of the darkness of the setting is how the majority of pilgrims die before ever accomplishing anything notable on their journey. I can imagine whole ships full of desperate pilgrims meeting with horrible fates.

Like getting their ships cooked off by chaos war ships. Pretty sure that has happened in Gaunt's Ghost books.

Or having their ships simply lost in the warp, or scooped up by hostile aliens. There’s 1001 ways to die in 40k.

Think of how muslims are supposed to visit Mecca at least once in their lives, not everyone returning alive. The journey can be dangerous, with warzones and unsafe transports, and outsiders are usually regarded as scum by the Saudis.

Then ramp it all up to eleven or twelve for 40K pilgims.

Just getting there can be relatively safe or a total nightmare depending on your route and your wealth. A rich man can travel and live in luxury, quality service and private security his to pay for. A poor man has to risk his life on crappy bulk transports where life support is overtaxed by too many passengers, Gellar fields weren't designed for so many tasty brains and he also has no security except what local authorities decide to extend to pilgrims. Poor people will have to beg for food and a place to sleep, but I guess it is proper to help them if you can. You're also a bit more holy for helping a pilgrim, right? Once there the rituals themself aren't necesarily safe - there's likely to be accidents with fires and panic leading to stampedes and plenty of dead. Not to mention you could run into some fanatics that decide your chants are wrong, which means in a best case scenario you get beaten up, in a slightly worse you're burned as a heretic (but quickly). Worst case the church makes an example of you.

There are pilgrimages to local (sector or subsector) religious sites. A pilgrim could finish these and potentially return to their home.

Then there are the pilgrimages to far flung worlds such as Terra. In the 40K background, sometimes these can last a lifetime or more, with some pilgrims attempting to finish what their parents or ancestors first set out to do. They may run out of funds midway or stall waiting in lines and bureaucracy. Even if they do not fall prey to lethal mishap, they may simply fail to get any further on their journey and end up settling down somewhere along the way. Maybe they do odd menial jobs in the dream that they can save up enough for them (or the next generation) to resume their journey.

Given the entrenched social positions in most of the 40K background, it does not seem to be a thing that the average person can do and expect to return to their original social position. The impression given is of the average pilgrim having to give up any job, and having to liquidate any worldly possessions in order to fund their journey.

Of course, there is also the issue of what happens at the end of this journey. Go to Terra, see the Palace...and then what? Stay? Make a slow (maybe multi-generational) return to an alien "home" planet of one's ancestors?

tneva82 wrote:
Plenty of pilgrims traveling around. It's not like 40k is all super dark with all people downtrodden with no means. Yes there are those kind of people but for large part it's not that super different to what we have here.

For examples of pilgrimages just read some Gaunt's Ghost books. Book 4 is for example good one on that but there's others. There's entire fleets of ships used to carry pilgrims around. Albeit not best shaped and they are rather small ships but plenty of those.

I think that's the part i'm most interested in - since going to Holy Terra is more of a lifetime trek.

And herein lies a question which may not have an answer - How easy is Inter-Sector/Sub-Sector travel?

It makes sense if you want to limit making a Pilgrimage to Holy Terra being a thing for Rogue Trader Dynasties, Planetary Governors, and the Rich/Elite of Certain worlds.

But as you noted in the Gaunt's Ghosts book and also noted in the Maccabian Janissaries bit -> http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Maccabian_Janissaries

We get boat loads of Pilgrims going from One World to Another - Hell the Janissaries Unit is comprised of Pilgrims from Other worlds.


This implies, in certain sectors, a high degree of inter-sector or at the very least Inter-System travel.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spetulhu wrote:
A poor man has to risk his life on crappy bulk transports where life support is overtaxed by too many passengers,

Ah but you see this is what i'm talking about - the fact that Bulk Transports even Exist.

Because the way some people talk about 40K, the only people who are moving about are the Elite and the Military - ie: there are No Bulk Transports.

Hence why i asked the question.

Bulk transports definitely exist. Hive worlds and forge worlds rely on them to import food.and raw materials and export manufactured goods. Agri worlds rely on them to bring in manufactured goods and export the food they are growing. The Guard rely on them to.transport their troops about. There are privately owned trading fleets (and not.just rogue traders) and ships that get suborned by the authorities when needed. Not everything is just for the elite and Munitorum use.

GrapeApe wrote:


Ah but you see this is what i'm talking about - the fact that Bulk Transports even Exist.

Because the way some people talk about 40K, the only people who are moving about are the Elite and the Military - ie: there are No Bulk Transports.

Hence why i asked the question.

Then those people have missed numerous references to bulk transports.

People generally have TOO dark view of 40k universum imagining world where nobody but elite has any personal freedom etc. But that's been shown in books plenty to not be true. YES there are such slaves but that's not full population. There's still middle class and apart from weird stuff it's not THAT different life for middle class.

You could say the extremes are extremified further. Poor are in even worse state, elite is in even better.