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I've always wanted a Loota army after seeing my friends in 7th edition but I just don't have the heart or guts to use them this edition. Firstly, it's the cost. With BS5 and a heavy weapon (making them unable to move unless you want BS6) I feel like I need a full squad of 15 to be effective. However, a full squad of 15 is 255 points and about £45-60. That's like 40 boyz! Plus, their save is a 6+ or a 5+im cover and they only have 1 wound.... I've seen many games where my friend has lost about 30 a turn (500pts). Potentially (with d3 shots) you could get 45 S7 -1ap 2d attacks but again this is random. Not sure what the maths are like in terms of what this can do but you could easily end up with BS6. They're overall a pretty underwhelming unit (especially seen as I've seen my friend not be able to even shoot with 500+ points vs some armies). How would you fix them?

Wait for the Codex and see what GW does. Then, if appropriate, panic.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Wait for the <New Rules> and see what GW does. Then, if appropriate, panic.

This should just be the permanent advice given to all Ork players waiting for their new rules.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Wait for the <New Rules> and see what GW does. Then, if appropriate, panic.

This should just be the permanent advice given to all Ork players waiting for their new rules.

Still waiting... it has been many years now... but just keep getting told to wait. Anyway, I want to discuss this anyway because it might give the devs ideas for when they write the next codex in 2025

Well, it is 48" so I don't see a reason to move with them often. Still for the same points i'd rather take a Tankbusta with a Rokkit who does get a move penalty and has a better gun.

Lootas are fine in cover, there's no need to move them, they have a huge range. In first turn they can have the 30 LD from a boyz mob and maybe even the 5+ invuln from a KFF and the painboy FNP.

At the moment they're utterly overcosted though, they're basically impossible to field in any semi-competitive game. I'd also like to field them more often, we must wait for the codex though.

Lootas don't need to move, however, they are indeed overpriced for what they do. You need 500+ pts of lootas to kill a rhino. And than you end up with a bunch of 6+ armored one-wound guyz. In comparison, you need a bit more than 400 pts of csm havoks (unbufed) to do the same job. And havoks would be more resilient and less vulnerable to hit penalties. All in all, lootas are 2-3 times worse than an underwhelming CSM unit that nobody takes nowadays. And if you take tankbustas, 230 pts of tankbustas - not even counting squigs, are statistically enough to kill a rhino. But bustas of course need transports, so, it's not as great either, but leagues ahead of lootas if you want to actually kill anything and stay alive for a bit longer thanks to transport protection. If you want gunlining, your best (and only) bet are KMK.

I think it's the survival rates as well. 5+ max save is pretty poor for an important unit that's most likely going to be a target. (7f someone tol me a S4 5+ save unit was 250pts I'd want to kill them first.

Their damage output is bad, but it's not as bad as their resilience clearly. It takes 380pts of Predators to kill a Rhino in one round of shooting vs 510pts of Lootas, but the Predators have 22 wounds at T7 with a 3+ save. The Lootas have 30 wounds at T4 with a 6+ save...

In order to make them viable, they need to cost 11-12pts (13pts and above makes them absolute garbage).

You can always command point reroll their number of shots. Also having boyz nearby with their high leadership might be a good idea. On which ever turn you want use a weird boy to teleport them to your opponent’s side of the table. Then you opponent will have to worry about 30 Ork Boyz in his face and less likely to worry about 45 Lootas ready to shoot.

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
You can always command point reroll their number of shots. Also having boyz nearby with their high leadership might be a good idea. On which ever turn you want use a weird boy to teleport them to your opponent’s side of the table. Then you opponent will have to worry about 30 Ork Boyz in his face and less likely to worry about 45 Lootas ready to shoot.

At that point your diverting even more resources to get an already resource heavy unit to make it viable. Why wouldn't you just take more boyz if they're such a threat compared to the Lootas? As much as I always push for fluffy games I always feel there should be some reason you want to take a troop. I don't want troops to be top tier Hive Tyrant Spam but I want to feel like they contributed to the battle in some way. If we bring models that actually hinder the experience then we might as well just role dice without the expensive plastic. XD I always feels like i want the enemy to be confused as to what to target first because they might all screw him in different ways! But even with my other armies I find it's pretty easy to just go down a check list of priority targets...

 lolman1c wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
You can always command point reroll their number of shots. Also having boyz nearby with their high leadership might be a good idea. On which ever turn you want use a weird boy to teleport them to your opponent’s side of the table. Then you opponent will have to worry about 30 Ork Boyz in his face and less likely to worry about 45 Lootas ready to shoot.

At that point your diverting even more resources to get an already resource heavy unit to make it viable. Why wouldn't you just take more boyz if they're such a threat compared to the Lootas?

Because if you have 30 boyz and 20 lootas vs 3x 30 boyz the former *may* perform better, because you can only jump one unit at a time and there is only so much space for models in melee. So while you have 60 boyz waiting to get stuck in the other setup would be in the same position with 30 boyz and shooting with lootas on the first turn.

20 lootas will deal 6.67 wounds to t7 3+. 57 shootaboyz will deal 4.20 with shooting alone. And than they'll punch it down to death. And they're 3 times more durable and have less ld problems.

Daedalus81 just likes to pick a horrible ork unit and start protecting it =)

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
You can always command point reroll their number of shots. Also having boyz nearby with their high leadership might be a good idea. On which ever turn you want use a weird boy to teleport them to your opponent’s side of the table. Then you opponent will have to worry about 30 Ork Boyz in his face and less likely to worry about 45 Lootas ready to shoot.

At that point your diverting even more resources to get an already resource heavy unit to make it viable. Why wouldn't you just take more boyz if they're such a threat compared to the Lootas?

Because if you have 30 boyz and 20 lootas vs 3x 30 boyz the former *may* perform better, because you can only jump one unit at a time and there is only so much space for models in melee. So while you have 60 boyz waiting to get stuck in the other setup would be in the same position with 30 boyz and shooting with lootas on the first turn.

Additionally Lootas have S7 guns with AP -1 and 2 damage. Great at killing Primaris and ignoring cover. As said before having ranged threats mean you don’t have your eggs in one basket. Though some would rather have Mek Gunz than Lootas.

Spending one CP for another chance at 45 shots instead of 15 is well worth the cost. I don’t know why I would use CPs otherwise.

Lootas suffer because all autocannon equivalents are crap right now.

The Ork codex is probably going to make them cheaper and give them a 2CP stratagem so they can fire twice or it'll be a 1CP stratagem that gives the unit maximum amount of shots.

 koooaei wrote:
20 lootas will deal 6.67 wounds to t7 3+. 57 shootaboyz will deal 4.20 with shooting alone. And than they'll punch it down to death. And they're 3 times more durable and have less ld problems.

Daedalus81 just likes to pick a horrible ork unit and start protecting it =)

How do you propose to get 57 models within 18" of said tank?

People like to make ridiculous arguments without consideration for board space, range, or anything else for that matter.

lootas are imo the least likely unit to be fixed. unless gw acknowledges and changed them significantly. if they were pointed appropriately the box of 5 would be one of the les amount of points per dollar kit. compared to other army units they are worth about 8-9 points and closer to 8 on that spectrum. at 8 points it would be 1.6 points per us $ so pretty pricey but hey at that point you have it costed correctly. at current cost of 17 points per model you could fix them with a 4+ armor save and set 3 shots at BS5+ or alternatively make them 2 shots each with BS4+ and still give them a 4+ armor save. I have very little expectation GW will do any of that though I am imagining them dropping lootas to 14 points each and declaring mission accomplished.

I'm kinda optimistic. I have 34 Lootaz and have always been a Death Skull fan boy. With the love the DE just got, I'm hoping some of it shines off on the Orkz.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
20 lootas will deal 6.67 wounds to t7 3+. 57 shootaboyz will deal 4.20 with shooting alone. And than they'll punch it down to death. And they're 3 times more durable and have less ld problems.

Daedalus81 just likes to pick a horrible ork unit and start protecting it =)

How do you propose to get 57 models within 18" of said tank?

People like to make ridiculous arguments without consideration for board space, range, or anything else for that matter.

Not telling shootas will emidiately magically apear within 18" of the enemy. Just pointing out that loota's damage output is extremely underwhelming. EVEN shootaboyz do comparable amount of damage at range. And their main role is mellee.

 koooaei wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
20 lootas will deal 6.67 wounds to t7 3+. 57 shootaboyz will deal 4.20 with shooting alone. And than they'll punch it down to death. And they're 3 times more durable and have less ld problems.

Daedalus81 just likes to pick a horrible ork unit and start protecting it =)

How do you propose to get 57 models within 18" of said tank?

People like to make ridiculous arguments without consideration for board space, range, or anything else for that matter.

Not telling shootas will emidiately magically apear within 18" of the enemy. Just pointing out that loota's damage output is extremely underwhelming. EVEN shootaboyz do comparable amount of damage at range. And their main role is mellee.

That's the blunder of Mathhammer. Lootas are an infantry unit with good range (I'd still take Tankbustas, probably). They can stand back and be safe from the mid range weapons that want to shoot them, which forces your opponent towards the boyz that want to punch them or to use heavier weapons to take them down.

Are you going to go win a tournament with them? Hell, no, but there's always more to consider when analyzing a unit.

Still waiting for a mighty deff dread list. Probably supported by lootas now =)

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
20 lootas will deal 6.67 wounds to t7 3+. 57 shootaboyz will deal 4.20 with shooting alone. And than they'll punch it down to death. And they're 3 times more durable and have less ld problems.

Daedalus81 just likes to pick a horrible ork unit and start protecting it =)

How do you propose to get 57 models within 18" of said tank?

People like to make ridiculous arguments without consideration for board space, range, or anything else for that matter.

Any good ork player worth his squig could do that easy! I once fit 60 models in a deepstrike corner edge smaller that 10"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But no really... A lot of units get extra range this edition and i don't think there is a single battle report online I have seen where the lootas don't get shot and killed by something in the first turn or so. Hell, most games now are on a board that most weapons can fire accross.

With the changes to how cover works, a T1 1W model with a poor save is only worth taking if they are cheap, otherwise you need to find another way to stop them being shot at, or take advantage of them being shot at.

Have found the only viable way to keep valuable but easily killed small units alive is to have enough boyz in the enemies face that if they waste any shots on the support units it will cost them the game.

perhaps have them deployed in a KFF bubble, in terrain, to help with the first turn at least then when the big men moves up they are in position to provide some covering fire? by which time the enemy should really be shooting at all the boyz you brought.


Or wait for a codex when they will likely gain a strategy card thats both expensive in CP and easily negated by most enemies (like it boosts a save by +1.. big fat hairy deal)

Haha, although most players have anti ork list now... watched one game wiyh a bunch of rhinos and cheap troops basically surround the main shooting squad with a 6" gap. The player the just stood still and shot the important troops as the boyz were in a tar pit. The rhinos either pulked out so thd boyz were mowed down or they exploded and the boyz were mowed down. XD

But i have little hope in our codex after the CA traits and stratagems and point adjustments. The beta codex of the Necrons suggests (only suggests but it's all we got because GW doesn't tell us how tgeir process works) little changes between testing and codex. So Morkanaut will get a 30pt reduction making it still bad, kopptas are weirdly priced, the warlords will just get boring traits and Orks will generate an additional hut in a 6 when they probably can't even hit the unit on a 6 anyway because -2 to hit.

(Anyway, negatively is more to generate debate, i don't believe all of this fully)

 lolman1c wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
20 lootas will deal 6.67 wounds to t7 3+. 57 shootaboyz will deal 4.20 with shooting alone. And than they'll punch it down to death. And they're 3 times more durable and have less ld problems.

Daedalus81 just likes to pick a horrible ork unit and start protecting it =)

How do you propose to get 57 models within 18" of said tank?

People like to make ridiculous arguments without consideration for board space, range, or anything else for that matter.

Any good ork player worth his squig could do that easy! I once fit 60 models in a deepstrike corner edge smaller that 10"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But no really... A lot of units get extra range this edition and i don't think there is a single battle report online I have seen where the lootas don't get shot and killed by something in the first turn or so. Hell, most games now are on a board that most weapons can fire accross.

I have fit 100 models in range of a KFF Big Mek..... completely doable.

spend 100pts and put them in a bunker XD?

i'v used mine a couple of times they don't do so good for the pts. Best i could come up with is putting them in cover and having a pain boy near by.

They should probably be 10pts each or d3+2 shots instead. Why orks didnt get a better pts adjustment in the last CA is beyond me.

edit: making them rapid fire 48" d3 might be quite fun and also quite unique too.

Kida feel like Most orks should ha e rapid fire or assualt weapons. Honestly, i forgot we evennhad pistols because i never use them... hell! I even forgot to use them in melee!

 lolman1c wrote:
Haha, although most players have anti ork list now... watched one game wiyh a bunch of rhinos and cheap troops basically surround the main shooting squad with a 6" gap. The player the just stood still and shot the important troops as the boyz were in a tar pit. The rhinos either pulked out so thd boyz were mowed down or they exploded and the boyz were mowed down. XD

But i have little hope in our codex after the CA traits and stratagems and point adjustments. The beta codex of the Necrons suggests (only suggests but it's all we got because GW doesn't tell us how tgeir process works) little changes between testing and codex. So Morkanaut will get a 30pt reduction making it still bad, kopptas are weirdly priced, the warlords will just get boring traits and Orks will generate an additional hut in a 6 when they probably can't even hit the unit on a 6 anyway because -2 to hit.

(Anyway, negatively is more to generate debate, i don't believe all of this fully)

Way to deal with "and this is my anti-work list" is to play not just orks, and not announce before turning up what you turn up with (and in extreme cases bring orks and something else in the bag)

have discovered today that Chimera got down very quickly to ork boyz, cannot imagine Rhino go down any less quick (and this is Chimera loaded with twin heavy flamer).

can indeed see some over priced units getting cheaper, but still being over priced, a lot of models being costed in a way because they "can" kill 'x' marine unit, but given rules to make it vanishingly unlikely and yet the "more dakka" stratagem will likely remain, and remain essentially useless for the reasons noted.


Have noted people customising lists when facing my lot (horde ork, horde Tyranid etc, there is a theme here) so got hold of Custards as well, the effect being roughly that of a WW2 player who usually brings Soviet Conscript hordes to games where opponents bring a lot of heavy machine guns and light mortars discovering that instead they are facing tigers...

You're asking an Ork player to play as a filthy loyalist? Ew! No! But no really. I'm not a competitive player.