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I like the look of the weapons, could they work as mini mobile devastators?

They seem expensive, but does the mobility and firepower make them work?

If used correctly, they can shred a lot of stuff on the table. IMHO the standard Plasma and the 'assault' versions are far better than the other. Your mileage may vary.

Kind of. They are a great unit on paper and they work like you want Marines to work (point in positive). However, they are still fragile and because of their firepower puts them high up on enemy targets making them a proverbial glass cannon.

DA helblasters have a few legs up the n that they have a really good plasma strategem which makes them deadlier and Azrael to negate some of the fragility mentioned above.

They are also costed fairly which really means they aren't spaamable and thus will never be on OP choice.

yes, I think the only advantage of them over regular devs is the fact that you get a 5 man plasma squad that isn't heavy. They just seem so pricey points wise..

the range is good, I'm thinking using a libby to give them some sort of invuln.. popping them out from hiding and letting rip to kill what I want dead.

They also seem potentially usable in DW, where they cost 1 point more (pesky pistols) but can have intercessors (that cost 2 more but actually kill things to soak through the first 10 wounds of damage.

There is also a strat to deepstrike them, which could be fun.

Do you think if they had a 5+ invuln they could work better? Obvs it takes some setting up and relies on a libby + roll but I like the highs of contrived situations working

Hellblasters are pretty good but you need some support to get the most out of them.

1. You need some way to reroll 1s sothat you can overcharge them without too much risk of blowing up. Normally that will mean a Captain, probably best kept fairly cheap unless you plan to advance them up the field.

2. Anything that boosts their survivability is a good bet. Apothecaries, invulnerable saves, cover, you name it. Blood Angels do well here with their "Standard of Sacrifice" which gives them a 5+++ save.

3. Punish the enemy for killing them. A Chapter Banner is a nice idea as each time a model dies, it can make a "parting shot" on a 4+ (even if you die due to your own overcharging).

A 5-man squad of hellblasters will likely get focussed down by the enemy before they can do much but a larger squad with a bit of support will do a lot of damage and require real effort from your opponent to wipe out. All of which can take the pressure off the rest of your army.

The following can all make particularly good use of Hellblasters.

Deathwatch: Mix them in your Intercessor squads for ablative wounds.

Dark Angels: Built in rerolls of 1 when stationary. Stratagem for extra damage. Azrael for full rerolls and a 4++.

Blood Angels for their 5+++ Banner

Raven Guard for -1 to hit outside 12" range.

... and Space Wolves with the “on the hunt” stratagem.

If you can get them within rapid firing range without dying, they're very strong. Getting them in range when not RG or DW seems like a bit of a trick though as they tend to be a fire magnet. The assault variant solves the range issue, but in trade you lose that S7/S8.

You can bring and use them to great effect but you 100% need a supporting squad whether it be devestators etc because they will be focused on.

Another problem plaguing them now is all the invulns in the game.

Martel732 wrote:
Another problem plaguing them now is all the invulns in the game.

Yes, basically those all kind of Eldar trickery, You know Harlequins? They have natural army wide 4++ and army wide -1 to hit on their dirt cheap points transports. When you shoot your overcharged Hellblaster at them, they pop a stratagem to drop your prescious marine shooting accurracy you pay for by their tremendous points down to Orks shooty accurrate level. Bravo, now you kill yourself on 1 2 and 3s to hit!!!!!. Then they shrug off your rare hits by their 4++, then the guys inside disembark, advance and charge into you with millimons of attacks and kill your expensive guys easily.

Northern85Star wrote:
... and Space Wolves with the “on the hunt” stratagem.

Space Wolf Long fangs can take a plasma gun on their sergent, and re-roll 1s natively, so not sure hellblasters are worth it for them.

BrianDavion wrote:

Northern85Star wrote:
... and Space Wolves with the “on the hunt” stratagem.

Space Wolf Long fangs can take a plasma gun on their sergent, and re-roll 1s natively, so not sure hellblasters are worth it for them.

I run both, often with Bjorn to provide the Hellblasters with rerolls. This kind of threat saturation is important as your opponent will rarely be able o kill both squads before you do some significant damage.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Another problem plaguing them now is all the invulns in the game.

Yes, basically those all kind of Eldar trickery, You know Harlequins? They have natural army wide 4++ and army wide -1 to hit on their dirt cheap points transports. When you shoot your overcharged Hellblaster at them, they pop a stratagem to drop your prescious marine shooting accurracy you pay for by their tremendous points down to Orks shooty accurrate level. Bravo, now you kill yourself on 1 2 and 3s to hit!!!!!. Then they shrug off your rare hits by their 4++, then the guys inside disembark, advance and charge into you with millimons of attacks and kill your expensive guys easily.

Yeah, this is why my new list version is trying all Aggressors instead of some Aggressors and some Hellblasters. Both are glass cannons, but while Hellblasters are quite good at that Imperial T7/3+ type armor, Aggressors tend to outshoot them at everything else. On paper I'm liking the look of Aggressors a lot more now, though I also admit that at local games Imperium is still vastly over represented compared to what tourney placings show.

Though, I think if I were running a more traditional gun blob with a banner, I'd still like the Hellblasters more. 6 free bolter shots on death just isn't as awesome as 2 free overcharged plasma.

I'm not sure whether or not they're costed appropriately, but 99 points for a Starweaver doesn't sound "dirt cheap" to me. They are tough to take down with the -1 to hit and a 4++, though. Seems to me something like an autocannon would be better suited against them than plasma.

I'm pretty sure Neophyte's post was satire

My Dark Angel Hellblasters are money-makers. A full squad of ten with Azrael, a Lieutenant and an Ancient can kill almost anything if you are willing to roll the dice on over-charging. Tanks, dreadnoughts and even superheavies have all been reduced to slag in one volley. Targets with -1 to hit modifiers are a problem, though, and I agree that 4+ invul saves are a pain.

I prefer devastators or long fangs if you play SW, but IMHO all standard marines' units are better than their primaris counterparts. Maybe just the primaris dread is better than the standard ones.

Dark Angel Helblasters backed by Azrael are rock solid, those 4+ invulnerable saves and re-rolling all failed hit rolls with that special supercharge stratagem is typical to a lot of competitive Dark Angel lists I've seen. Probably the best way to run Helblasters overall. Otherwise, they are a solid unit but a juicy - and relatively easy - target for most opponents.

I also find that H.B. backed by an Ancient is always annoying to shift. It has been coined "The final F.U.".

A squad of 10 from Deathwatch deep striking for 1 CP is scary, I also kinda like the classic blob of 10+Captain+Lt+Relic Banner+Apoth, although that's probably not as good as multiple 2-4 man Vet squads with Plasma in a Pod (or Jump Packs if BA)+ similar support.

DA Hellblasters dont need a captain babysitter, for re-rolling 1s when you didnt move. If you want something better go plasma inceptors. 177 points for 6D3 plasma shots, re-rolling 1s, if they stand still. Use the weapons of the dark age stratagem for 3 damage when overcharging.

DA don’t need to supercharge if there’s a - to hit modifier just use weapons of the dark age strategem and they are still inflicting straight 2 damage each shot that gets through any save. Any ranged weapon will have the same problem versus invulnerable save so it’s not a good argument against the effectiveness of plasma incinerators.

For non-DA it is. -1 to hit makes BA hellblasters very sad. And DW, for that matter.

Not everything is always a perfect situation and sometimes you just have to go for it.

Hellblasters fall into the wonderfully sub par Marine/Primaris statline trap with a high PPM cost with no chumps to tank the early wounds.
GW seams to gave some belief that the marine statline gives them the ability to be tanky but put them on the table and watch high rate of fire D2 or D3 weapons remove them with ease.

Line of sight blocking terrain is a thing where I play.

 Primark G wrote:
Not everything is always a perfect situation and sometimes you just have to go for it.

Marines absolutely can not afford to kill themselves in their own shooting phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Primark G wrote:
Line of sight blocking terrain is a thing where I play.

Irrelevant, as los blocking is as likely to hurt hellblasters as help them. And it doesn't help at all vs ig.

DE and IG always the SM bane. Maybe soon to be Harlies and Orrucks.

But seriously if the HB kill say something like a Shadowsword it is totally worth the overheats and you can take a banner to shoot again on 3+.