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Models may not move more than thrice their maximum Movement Characteristic in a single turn for any reason. This includes additional movement from Advancing, Piling in, Consolidating, etc. and any other special rules that grant additional movement.

This will help stop the most extreme abusive movement examples (Move Move Move, Jeanstealers and Triple Activating Berserkers).

Sounds reasonable in principle, but might not be entirely excusable by the fluff. Aren't there units that legitimately teleport according to their fluff?

The issue I'd have with it is tracking movement through the game, esp if units move outside of just the movement phase itself. It would require players to specifically track the movement characteristic of each unit whereas right now one only has to track wounds and auras (bonus and debuff).

It adds game bloat rather than addressing the problem.

It's an interesting idea to fix some issues, however it might be simpler and easier to shut down the means by which some units are able to move far further than normal. Furthermore in resolving the issue at the source rather than patching over it, it would at least ensure that those units have other properties adjusted for the fact that they are losing long reaching movement that they are currently designed and costed for in the game.

 Overread wrote:

Spoiler:

The issue I'd have with it is tracking movement through the game, esp if units move outside of just the movement phase itself. It would require players to specifically track the movement characteristic of each unit whereas right now one only has to track wounds and auras (bonus and debuff).

It adds game bloat rather than addressing the problem.

It's an interesting idea to fix some issues, however it might be simpler and easier to shut down the means by which some units are able to move far further than normal. Furthermore in resolving the issue at the source rather than patching over it, it would at least ensure that those units have other properties adjusted for the fact that they are losing long reaching movement that they are currently designed and costed for in the game.

Excellent point. And I would add that introducing a general rule to address poorly written special rules is a step entirely in the wrong direction.

Overread is right. It would be a fething nightmare to track, especially as you'd have to do it on a model-by-model basis.

 Ginjitzu wrote:
Sounds reasonable in principle, but might not be entirely excusable by the fluff. Aren't there units that legitimately teleport according to their fluff?

From a fluff standpoint, certain Necron Dynasties/Units/Relics represent movement by teleportation throughout the game. I might have this wrong, but the Nephrek Dynasty gets an automatic 6" if they advance, which I think is supposed to represent them sort of teleport hopping across the board.

Wait but if the earth is spinning at 400m/s and the earth travels around the sun at 450m/s doesn't that mean it is technically impossible to play with this rule?

In any case, it looks like a cool rule that actually makes assault unit's threat ranges threat radius more readable. The only issue I see is that there are multiple sources of unit displacement, like advancing, movement phase, pile in, consolidate, so you might create a bit of book keeping to keep track of multiple units total movement. Also what happens when only half the models in a unit move in a particular phase?

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Models may not move more than thrice their maximum Movement Characteristic in a single turn for any reason. This includes additional movement from Advancing, Piling in, Consolidating, etc. and any other special rules that grant additional movement.

This will help stop the most extreme abusive movement examples (Move Move Move, Jeanstealers and Triple Activating Berserkers).

Abusive? Move move move is litterally there for that, it's what it does, i can understand the pile in shenanigans but you may as well replace move move move with another order if you're gonna do that

But where and when would you apply this restriction? Some units can move thrice a turn but they don't have access to teleport stratagems or powers. Would Da Jump force orks to only be able to move up 15". This limits some redeployment more than others like the ones that rely on moving 3 times

 Kroem wrote:
Wait but if the earth is spinning at 400m/s and the earth travels around the sun at 450m/s doesn't that mean it is technically impossible to play with this rule?

In any case, it looks like a cool rule that actually makes assault unit's threat ranges threat radius more readable. The only issue I see is that there are multiple sources of unit displacement, like advancing, movement phase, pile in, consolidate, so you might create a bit of book keeping to keep track of multiple units total movement. Also what happens when only half the models in a unit move in a particular phase?

Not forgetting that each turn you'd have to remember to re-set all units movement counters to 0 to keep track faithfully. Unlike, say, wounds which remain until a specific event or ability changes them; the movement counter would re-set at the start of very new player turn.

The issue of models vs units would be easy in that you'd only track the maximum unit move not the model distance moved; so you could just stop all movement of a unit even if only one model in the unit had moved that far (sounds odd but is at least more practical than monitoring every single individual model).

That said I still say that its a non-ideal patch to issues built into the games design that would be best addressed with there rather than with a plaster like this.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Models may not move more than thrice their maximum Movement Characteristic in a single turn for any reason. This includes additional movement from Advancing, Piling in, Consolidating, etc. and any other special rules that grant additional movement.

This will help stop the most extreme abusive movement examples (Move Move Move, Jeanstealers and Triple Activating Berserkers).

So an Ork Boy that walked 5", could not then charge more than 10", that seems a bit unfair (even if its already unlikely, it becomes impossible under this proposed rule). And then assuming they made a 10" charge, could not pile in nor consolidate? Way to crush melee armies with slightly slower troops.

Unless you are also willing to remove Deep Strike, why are you bothering to put a maximum on movement when units can still teleport to where they want to go?

But her Guardsmen!

This would be horrible news for any renegade chaos space marine players. It's now almost impossible for their infantry to gain any benefit since 18" would be their furthest movement.

What about any units disembarking? Can they only charge 9" after they get out?

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
This would be horrible news for any renegade chaos space marine players. It's now almost impossible for their infantry to gain any benefit since 18" would be their furthest movement.

What about any units disembarking? Can they only charge 9" after they get out?

Disembarking/Being Set Up is not movement.

But they do count as having moved...

"Note though, that even if you don't move disembarking units further in your movement phase, they still count as having moved for any rules purposes, such as shooting Heavy Weapons..."

And since they can displace up to 3" as part of a disembark counts-as movement, that counts as having moved for any rules purposes. Soo... yeah... it kind of does count as movement for all rules purposes. Unless you want your arbitrary limitation to specifically contradict this rule counting the displacement of disembarking as movement.


For someone so Hell-bent on being a rules guy...

Even without tracking disembarking, this would still be a pain to track. Did that one model move 6" or just 5? With that extra inch, you could have piled in enough to take a unit hostage. That sort of thing.

This seems like a case of using a flamethrower to kill a spider. There would be a lot of problematic side effects to many aspects of the game, and the issues you're trying to address are pretty specific.

If you don't want genestealers to move fast, then I suggest making your case for why (I haven't heard about genestealers sweeping tournaments lately), identify the key issues you want to solve, and then find a solution that addresses those issues with minimal impact on the rest of the game.

Because her Guardsmen!

All things being equal, I would like to see the game slowed down. But I'd also like to see ranges reduced. I'd like for armies to function when built between 33% to 50% "Assault" troops, while the remainder is "Shooty".

Because that's how I want 40k to play. I don't want all-out assault armies to just plow into cleverly deployed units that are taking tactical advantage of firing lines and kill zones... and I also don't want Deep Strike to be a perfect landing every time. I want assault to be a part of a winning army. The final push to clear an objective. The counter push that reclaims that objective. A clever gambit that pays off or is punished for poor play.

8th edition has different rock paper scissors elements to it than previous editions. Right now, assault works if you can completely swamp someone, so that they have no shooting whatsoever to retaliate with.

But you need swarms to do that. But swarms die to small arms fire. So you need to be fast enough to make an assault from safety, at great enough distance that you don't leave yourself exposed for counter play.

Which I find disappointing, because a game should have counter play. The ability to risk the fire for a turn, in order to receive the reward of crushing your opposition, should be an option, but 8th skipped that. Instead, wombo-combo a 30" move and ta-da! I is in assault town.

This a core design issue, not solved by a single effort. We went from Invisible, rerollable 2++ Death Stars to Cardboard armour for everyone. Pendulum swung too far. When everything dies so fast, you can't have such long ranges. And since pulling that back doesn't seem to be an option, we need to have high movement values to prevent exclusively static gunlines from bombarding each other across no-man's land.

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Reds8n

I think that a limitation on movement would be a good shout. Perhaps a simple "units may not be selected to move more than 3 times per turn" would work. So assault armies with the relevant rules can move-advance-assault, but guardsmen can't move-advance-move-advance.

Haven't got the rules In front of me so this might need to tweak the advance rules to make them a separate movement. it would also mean that you can either move-assault-pile in, or move-advance-assault, and save your pile in for next turn, as you only just made it to combat. There's nothing to stop the first round being a little bit less effective if you only barely made it there, and that's a good thing. tactical decision: charge now with a few models, or next turn with the full force? Advance and hope you roll more than 3, or rely on making the charge but getting a guaranteed 3" pile-in to make numbers up.

I think disembarking a vehicle would count as a move, as you'll already have benefited from the vehicles move, which it does in the same space of time as the models would have used for running - the speed benefit is the vehicles profile, not the disembarking.