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The Ravenwing bike squad datasheet states that Seargents can replace their pistols with an item from the melee weapon or pistol lists, it does not state that they can replace their weapon with one from the Sergeant's equipment list.

The codex Space Marines bike squad datasheet states that they can replace their pistols with an item from the Seargent's equipment list.

The datasheets are identical in every other way, has this been FAQ's or answered somewhere, or can Ravenwing Seargents not take combi weapons? I checked the Dark Angels FAQ but it does not have any mention of bike squads.

From what you wrote, it appears that the ravenwing sgt cannot take combi weapon as they are not part of the space marine codex unit. They can be most identical in just about every way, but they are not the same, they use different codex rules/chapter tactics, etc.

abyrn wrote:
The Ravenwing bike squad datasheet states that Seargents can replace their pistols with an item from the melee weapon or pistol lists, it does not state that they can replace their weapon with one from the Sergeant's equipment list.

The codex Space Marines bike squad datasheet states that they can replace their pistols with an item from the Seargent's equipment list.

The datasheets are identical in every other way, has this been FAQ's or answered somewhere, or can Ravenwing Seargents not take combi weapons? I checked the Dark Angels FAQ but it does not have any mention of bike squads.

How are they identical when they have different names and different keywords?

You can't give a Ravenwing Sergeant in a Ravenwing Bike Squad a Combi weapon. It doesn't matter what the Space Marine Codex says.

After a bit more digging I found out that per the index the Ravenwing Bike Seargent can take an item from the Seargent's equipment list.

I guess my question was more around whether the fact that the Ravenwing Bike Seargent has a different wording than the regular Bike Seargent is a typo or a deliberate change.

Both the units are made from the same kit and have the same options in the box, the Ravenwing kit has an additional sprue with options for cosmetic changes to the bikes, but does not contain any additional weapons for the bikes.

Again, regardless of what the answer is, the fact is that per the index and using the index flowchart, the Ravenwing Bike Seargent can take a combi-weapon. I'll have to look up the Blood Angels and Space Wolves codexes to see if they mirror the Dark Angels Codex or the Space Marine Codex.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

abyrn wrote:
The Ravenwing bike squad datasheet states that Seargents can replace their pistols with an item from the melee weapon or pistol lists, it does not state that they can replace their weapon with one from the Sergeant's equipment list.

The codex Space Marines bike squad datasheet states that they can replace their pistols with an item from the Seargent's equipment list.

The datasheets are identical in every other way, has this been FAQ's or answered somewhere, or can Ravenwing Seargents not take combi weapons? I checked the Dark Angels FAQ but it does not have any mention of bike squads.

How are they identical when they have different names and different keywords?

You can't give a Ravenwing Sergeant in a Ravenwing Bike Squad a Combi weapon. It doesn't matter what the Space Marine Codex says.

The Datasheets are different and the option isn’t in the Codex, but as per the Designers Commentary you can use Index wargear options, so you’re wrong. You need to consider all rules sources. Abyrn’s post above has it correct.

abyrn wrote:
After a bit more digging I found out that per the index the Ravenwing Bike Seargent can take an item from the Seargent's equipment list.

I guess my question was more around whether the fact that the Ravenwing Bike Seargent has a different wording than the regular Bike Seargent is a typo or a deliberate change.

Both the units are made from the same kit and have the same options in the box, the Ravenwing kit has an additional sprue with options for cosmetic changes to the bikes, but does not contain any additional weapons for the bikes.

Again, regardless of what the answer is, the fact is that per the index and using the index flowchart, the Ravenwing Bike Seargent can take a combi-weapon. I'll have to look up the Blood Angels and Space Wolves codexes to see if they mirror the Dark Angels Codex or the Space Marine Codex.

Fair enough, I have a habit of pretending the Index doesn't exist. So yeah, you can use the index up until GW makes them matched play illegal.

I'm with BCB on this one. TECHNICALLY, you can give a Sergeant a combi-weapon per the Index. However, the clear intention going forward, as evidenced by the Codex, is that you can't. If you come to terms with this new intention now and stick to the Codex options, you won't be angry when the Index options inevitably go away. Might not happen for awhile, but it'll happen at some point.

Cool story. Technically here means “is legal to”. Personal preferences as to rules sources aren’t relevant, and “possibly in the unspecified future” isn’t really a relevant concept in a “what are the rules now?” discussion. Seems a bit “what I wish the rules said” from BCB, there. ;-)

TL;DR it’s legal to give a Ravenwing Biker Serg a Combi-Weapon.

There is a long flowchart saying you can clearly in RAW. The intention therefore is clear that going forward you can. GW have made no statement that index options will go away or that they intend this.

U02dah4 wrote:
GW have made no statement that index options will go away or that they intend this.

This.

U02dah4 wrote:
There is a long flowchart saying you can clearly in RAW. The intention therefore is clear that going forward you can. GW have made no statement that index options will go away or that they intend this.

I mean... removing the options from the Codex is a pretty clear indication that they don't intend the armies to have those options indefinitely. In the current state, RAW absolutely allows Index options. My feeling is that you're deluding yourself if you think that the Index options will always be available. They might not go away until the next edition, but they're almost certainly going to go away at some point. I just don't see GW maintaining an Index of prior edition wargear choices indefinitely.

Just trying to give the OP the understanding that while yes, the Index options are currently legal, if you build new models using those options, you will likely hit a point in the future where those options go Open/Narrative only or are removed altogether. If you're OK with that, awesome. If you don't want to end up with models that aren't legal for Matched Play at some point in the future, maybe consider whether or not you think the Index options will be available forever.

In other words, the answer is yes, but it's a loaded yes because it's very possible that yes will turn into a no at some point in the future.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Cool story. Technically here means “is legal to”. Personal preferences as to rules sources aren’t relevant, and “possibly in the unspecified future” isn’t really a relevant concept in a “what are the rules now?” discussion. Seems a bit “what I wish the rules said” from BCB, there. ;-)

TL;DR it’s legal to give a Ravenwing Biker Serg a Combi-Weapon.

No need to be sarcastic and dismissive. You're better than that. True, my personal preference isn't relevant to the RAW discussion... but it might be relevant to whether or not the OP decides to use a current RAW option that might go away at some point.

I feel like Index decisions are kind of like the threads where someone asks for list building advice a month before a new Codex is set to come out. The answer is usually something like 'yeah, I mean, that'll work now, but you should probably be aware that things might change'. So yeah, OP, go crazy. Just be aware that things might change.

Question for the group:
Is there a "Ravenwing Bike" unit in the Index, or does it just allow you to use the "Bike" unit from the regular SM section of the Index and add the RW keyword?
I don't have my Index handy, but it seems like this could make a difference.
If there is no "Ravenwing Bike" unit datasheet in the Index, the Designer's Commentary is irrelevant as there was no RW bike unit datasheet in the Index to claim access to Combi-weapons.

Also, I thought the RW bike unit has it's own kit separate from the regular SM bike kit. Am I just thinking of the Black Knight/Bike Command unit box?
And I'm also pretty sure that the SM bike kit has no combi-weapon options at all.

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 Galef wrote:
Question for the group:
Is there a "Ravenwing Bike" unit in the Index, or does it just allow you to use the "Bike" unit from the regular SM section of the Index and add the RW keyword?
I don't have my Index handy, but it seems like this could make a difference.
If there is no "Ravenwing Bike" unit datasheet in the Index, the Designer's Commentary is irrelevant as there was no RW bike unit datasheet in the Index to claim access to Combi-weapons.

Also, I thought the RW bike unit has it's own kit separate from the regular SM bike kit. Am I just thinking of the Black Knight/Bike Command unit box?
And I'm also pretty sure that the SM bike kit has no combi-weapon options at all.

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The Index has a Ravenwing Bike Squad entry. The Sergeant can replace his bolt pistol with a weapon from the Sergeant's Equipment list.

 Galef wrote:
Question for the group:
Is there a "Ravenwing Bike" unit in the Index, or does it just allow you to use the "Bike" unit from the regular SM section of the Index and add the RW keyword?
I don't have my Index handy, but it seems like this could make a difference.
If there is no "Ravenwing Bike" unit datasheet in the Index, the Designer's Commentary is irrelevant as there was no RW bike unit datasheet in the Index to claim access to Combi-weapons.

Also, I thought the RW bike unit has it's own kit separate from the regular SM bike kit. Am I just thinking of the Black Knight/Bike Command unit box?
And I'm also pretty sure that the SM bike kit has no combi-weapon options at all.

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The Ravenwing Bike Squadron kit is just a regular Space Marines Bike Squadron with a Ravenwing Accessory Pack included. The kit includes zero combi-weapon options, which is probably why the option was removed from the Codex. The Ravenwing Command Squad/Ravenwing Black Knights is a different kit. I don't think it has any combi-weapon options either, but I might have missed something on the sprue.

The flowchart is literally an ur-example of a Special Snowflake FAQ. It explicitly ignores the RaW. It is, however, a thing, so you can use Index options just fine. Like I said, I don't personally avail of the option and it slipped my mind when I answered.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
The Index has a Ravenwing Bike Squad entry. The Sergeant can replace his bolt pistol with a weapon from the Sergeant's Equipment list.

Thanks, that makes it pretty clear you can take them then.

 Kriswall wrote:
The Ravenwing Bike Squadron kit is just a regular Space Marines Bike Squadron with a Ravenwing Accessory Pack included. The kit includes zero combi-weapon options, which is probably why the option was removed from the Codex. The Ravenwing Command Squad/Ravenwing Black Knights is a different kit. I don't think it has any combi-weapon options either, but I might have missed something on the sprue.

Cool, I thought I was thinking of only 1 kit not 2.

I can actually see combi-weapons being removed from units whose kits do not include them. Then once the Indexes are thrown out (which WILL happen eventually, but probably not this edition) those units will have rules that match their physical in-kit options.

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