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Hi guys, the question of the thread is pretty simple: is there any reason to take a Leman Russ over this?
And a tank commander can give orders to another tank commander right?

Hi guys, the question of the thread is pretty simple: is there any reason to take a Leman Russ over this?

Nope, especially not after the point reduction tank commanders just got. BS 3+ and re-rolling 1s is a ton of buff for a small increase in price, and in any scenario where you can fit enough LRBTs to worry about the rule of three you're probably taking a Shadowsword to eat up a bunch of tank points instead of even considering more LRBTs.

And a tank commander can give orders to another tank commander right?

Yes, but the situations where you'd ever want to order a tank commander with a different tank commander instead of just having the first tank commander give an order to itself are weird edge cases you'll rarely encounter in a real game.

 Peregrine wrote:

And a tank commander can give orders to another tank commander right?

Yes, but the situations where you'd ever want to order a tank commander with a different tank commander instead of just having the first tank commander give an order to itself are weird edge cases you'll rarely encounter in a real game.

Wait, do you mean a tank commander can order himself? So Straken can order himself, and a Company commander too?

Alessios96 wrote:
Wait, do you mean a tank commander can order himself? So Straken can order himself, and a Company commander too?

Yes. If it says "a friendly unit" then it can pick itself, as it is a friendly unit. You're only limited to other models if the rule explicitly says "another friendly unit".

The only reason that came to my mind is ability to squadron the regular battle tank. You can take 9 models and use only 3 heavy support slots.

Tank commander does not have this ability, afaik.

How often do IG armies run more then 3 Lemman russes? Serious question, because all the armies I get to see are banblade+2 cmds or castellan and 2 russes.

I often run 3 to 6 russes, 1-2 of which are usually commanders.

I'm not fan of superheavy stuff and luckily all but one in my group are with me on this one.

Again, Is there a reason now to take Commander Pask over a Normal tank commander? Bs+2 is worth the difference in point?
And btw, isnt catachan way more efficient since the reroll is granted by "Gunnera, Kill on sight"?

Alessios96 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

And a tank commander can give orders to another tank commander right?

Yes, but the situations where you'd ever want to order a tank commander with a different tank commander instead of just having the first tank commander give an order to itself are weird edge cases you'll rarely encounter in a real game.

Wait, do you mean a tank commander can order himself? So Straken can order himself, and a Company commander too?

Yes. Why wouldn't he? Meets all the keyword requirements. They couldn't pre-codex which is what FAQ came to fix but codex changed wording.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hawky wrote:
The only reason that came to my mind is ability to squadron the regular battle tank. You can take 9 models and use only 3 heavy support slots.

Tank commander does not have this ability, afaik.

True once you have got 3 russ(4 if you have cadian for Pask) then reqular russ become something to consider. But not many armies swarm up on russes like that.

Alessios96 wrote:
Again, Is there a reason now to take Commander Pask over a Normal tank commander? Bs+2 is worth the difference in point?
And btw, isnt catachan way more efficient since the reroll is granted by "Gunnera, Kill on sight"?

Pask is pretty much the only source of bs2+ in the entire guard codex, his biggest issue isn't his cost it's being focused and shot off the board immediately.

Cadian and catachan russ's actually come out about equal I think, catachans reroll shot numbers with their trait and 1's with orders, cadians reroll shot numbers with orders and 1's with their trait. Catachans are more flexible because they're not dependant on sitting still to get those buffs but still.

Alessios96 wrote:
Again, Is there a reason now to take Commander Pask over a Normal tank commander? Bs+2 is worth the difference in point?
And btw, isnt catachan way more efficient since the reroll is granted by "Gunnera, Kill on sight"?

I think so. If you have a big enemy target that must die, Pask can unload on him first doing a crapton of damage hitting on 2+ re-rolling misses... then you can use overlapping fields of fire, and the rest of your tank commanders also hit on 2+ and re-roll misses (assuming you didn't move any of them).

Statistically Pask + 3 tank commanders and a Basilisk can bring down a 3++ Castellan this way on average, just pump out so many wounds that there's no way he can pass enough 3++ saves.

In addition to being able to take more than 3 russes, there are also variants that can't be tank commanders. Conquerors and annihilators are both unable to be tank commanders. There are also a few reasons to do with detachment slots. For example, you may want to take a spearhead to make russes obsec. That detachment only has two HQ slots and needs 3 heavy support choices to work. Or maybe you want a brigade and need an extra russ to fill it out. Lastly, perhaps you just want the cheapest russ possible, more for its durability than firepower. The cheapest russ is only 145 points if you go really cheap.

Sure, Commanders are probably the best choice most of the time, but there could be cases where a normal russ makes sense.

 gbghg wrote:

Alessios96 wrote:
Again, Is there a reason now to take Commander Pask over a Normal tank commander? Bs+2 is worth the difference in point?
And btw, isnt catachan way more efficient since the reroll is granted by "Gunnera, Kill on sight"?

Pask is pretty much the only source of bs2+ in the entire guard codex, his biggest issue isn't his cost it's being focused and shot off the board immediately.

Cadian and catachan russ's actually come out about equal I think, catachans reroll shot numbers with their trait and 1's with orders, cadians reroll shot numbers with orders and 1's with their trait. Catachans are more flexible because they're not dependant on sitting still to get those buffs but still.

Catachans can reroll shots on plasma cannons too, which is quite nice. And dont need to stand still for the rerolls.

I almost expect Tank Commanders to drop to BS4+ in the near future. It's the only reason i can find for this drop.

I really doubt that. Truth is that LR hitting on 3+ is quite strong, let alone pask with 2+, but I see no reason why they should remove it. Company Commanders and most other characters shoot on 3+ too.

Spoletta wrote:
I almost expect Tank Commanders to drop to BS4+ in the near future. It's the only reason i can find for this drop.

Another reason I can think of is that they wanted a bigger point gap between pask and regular tank commanders and decided they couldn't raise Pask's cost so they dropped the tank commander's instead. Honestly though it's such an unexpected change, maybe there's changes coming in the next round of FAQ's which will shed more light on this (or they'll get spammed at tourneys and get hit with the nerf bat back to where they were).

There are hundreds of reasons to take regular russ tanks over commanders.

However if your only interested in creating really dumb lists to make people eye roll at you then no.

ValentineGames wrote:
There are hundreds of reasons to take regular russ tanks over commanders.

However if your only interested in creating really dumb lists to make people eye roll at you then no.

Oh come on. You can easily explain a group of 3 tank commanders with fluff just as easily as you can explain regular russes from a fluff perspective... maybe your army received intel that there was a high value enemy armored target in the area, so the Warmaster dispatched a spearhead of his finest tank aces to deal with it.

Or if you have Pask + some Tank Commanders, it's Pask and his chosen command squadron, like how an officer would take a command squad of veterans, he just takes a command lance of tanks.

Just because you think it's a "really dumb list to make people eye roll at you" doesn't mean there aren't legit fluff reasons such a thing could happen.

 Horst wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:
There are hundreds of reasons to take regular russ tanks over commanders.

However if your only interested in creating really dumb lists to make people eye roll at you then no.

Oh come on. You can easily explain a group of 3 tank commanders with fluff just as easily as you can explain regular russes from a fluff perspective... maybe your army received intel that there was a high value enemy armored target in the area, so the Warmaster dispatched a spearhead of his finest tank aces to deal with it.

Or if you have Pask + some Tank Commanders, it's Pask and his chosen command squadron, like how an officer would take a command squad of veterans, he just takes a command lance of tanks.

Just because you think it's a "really dumb list to make people eye roll at you" doesn't mean there aren't legit fluff reasons such a thing could happen.

Indeed. In fact, there's written fluff about Leman Russes using laser-data transmission to talk to each other and link targeting information, using "Tactical Logic Engines" to lay the gun and ensure that each target is serviced by only one tank in a squadron. Such a squadron of vehicles could easily be represented with BS3+, re-rolling 1s. They can even turn off the data tether in favor of EMCON and reducing the enemy's abiltiy to target them in return (Strike & Shroud) or use the higher technology base they're obviously built with to push their engines past the typical limit (Full Throttle).

Just for example.

EDIT:
That said, you can only get a squadron of such tanks before having to use other, lesser tanks (regular Russ squadrons). So fielding a Leman Russ Tank Company would be pretty neat and still fluffy. More proof that the Rule of 3 doesn't actually harm fluffy armies that much (*awkward cough*).

Another example would be General Grizmund of the Narmenian 1st. He could make other Russes have higher ballistic skill, to represent how elite the Narmenian 1st were.

As I recall tank commanders are really vulnerable an ITC style missions because they give up kill points like crazy due to being a unit, a vehicle, and a character.

I really wish there was a rule that let russ characters not be targetable if there is a closer russ. Would both make standard russes more desirable and stop commanders just dying immediately.

 Trickstick wrote:
I really wish there was a rule that let russ characters not be targetable if there is a closer russ. Would both make standard russes more desirable and stop commanders just dying immediately.

The best way to keep tank commanders alive is to take a Shadowsword or other super heavy

Pask is scary, but he's not THAT scary

That's how I keep my sentinels alive.

There's pretty much no reason to have regular Leman Russes.

One problem is that TC orders are pretty much always better targeting themselves than on another tank. The Leman Russ tank is also pretty unsatisfying, and re-rolling shot output fixes that too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gbghg wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
I almost expect Tank Commanders to drop to BS4+ in the near future. It's the only reason i can find for this drop.

Another reason I can think of is that they wanted a bigger point gap between pask and regular tank commanders and decided they couldn't raise Pask's cost so they dropped the tank commander's instead. Honestly though it's such an unexpected change, maybe there's changes coming in the next round of FAQ's which will shed more light on this (or they'll get spammed at tourneys and get hit with the nerf bat back to where they were).

I heard it was because of the cost of the Knight Armiger.

There's someone on here saying that, but I don't buy it. If that was the case, why only reduce the Tank Commander specifically?

 Horst wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:
There are hundreds of reasons to take regular russ tanks over commanders.

However if your only interested in creating really dumb lists to make people eye roll at you then no.

Oh come on. You can easily explain a group of 3 tank commanders with fluff just as easily as you can explain regular russes from a fluff perspective... maybe your army received intel that there was a high value enemy armored target in the area, so the Warmaster dispatched a spearhead of his finest tank aces to deal with it.

Or if you have Pask + some Tank Commanders, it's Pask and his chosen command squadron, like how an officer would take a command squad of veterans, he just takes a command lance of tanks.

Just because you think it's a "really dumb list to make people eye roll at you" doesn't mean there aren't legit fluff reasons such a thing could happen.

Come off it.
Nobody plays fluff.
Yes you could say you've got an elite tank ace platoon.
But we are talking about 40k players here remember.
On a forum where a very vocal group of players control every single thread and tear apart fluff gamers and sling open insults at them while mods sit back with dicks in hands.

ValentineGames wrote:

 Horst wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:
There are hundreds of reasons to take regular russ tanks over commanders.

However if your only interested in creating really dumb lists to make people eye roll at you then no.

Oh come on. You can easily explain a group of 3 tank commanders with fluff just as easily as you can explain regular russes from a fluff perspective... maybe your army received intel that there was a high value enemy armored target in the area, so the Warmaster dispatched a spearhead of his finest tank aces to deal with it.

Or if you have Pask + some Tank Commanders, it's Pask and his chosen command squadron, like how an officer would take a command squad of veterans, he just takes a command lance of tanks.

Just because you think it's a "really dumb list to make people eye roll at you" doesn't mean there aren't legit fluff reasons such a thing could happen.

Come off it.
Nobody plays fluff.
Yes you could say you've got an elite tank ace platoon.
But we are talking about 40k players here remember.
On a forum where a very vocal group of players control every single thread and tear apart fluff gamers and sling open insults at them while mods sit back with dicks in hands.

You sound like you would be really fun to play a game with.... damn. Love the holier than thou attitude, really I do.

Why should we bother talking about some weird version of 40k where people take bad units that are exactly identical to better units except for having worse BS? Can't the one person who plays that way just talk to themselves offline?

ValentineGames wrote:

 Horst wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:
There are hundreds of reasons to take regular russ tanks over commanders.

However if your only interested in creating really dumb lists to make people eye roll at you then no.

Oh come on. You can easily explain a group of 3 tank commanders with fluff just as easily as you can explain regular russes from a fluff perspective... maybe your army received intel that there was a high value enemy armored target in the area, so the Warmaster dispatched a spearhead of his finest tank aces to deal with it.

Or if you have Pask + some Tank Commanders, it's Pask and his chosen command squadron, like how an officer would take a command squad of veterans, he just takes a command lance of tanks.

Just because you think it's a "really dumb list to make people eye roll at you" doesn't mean there aren't legit fluff reasons such a thing could happen.

Come off it.
Nobody plays fluff.
Yes you could say you've got an elite tank ace platoon.
But we are talking about 40k players here remember.
On a forum where a very vocal group of players control every single thread and tear apart fluff gamers and sling open insults at them while mods sit back with dicks in hands.

Who hurt you?

Yeah, there are a few people who get too argumentative. But I've been involved in many discussions with people helping them construct casual, thematic lists.

Generally speaking, if you are nice to people here then they are nice to you.