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Hi

I am working on coverting the 30k taghmata unit rules into 8th edition rules. Just for fun games of course. I started with one of the troop options, the Thallax Cohort. Thallax is a very versitile unit and I bet they would probably cost alot of points the way they are now but this is just for fun.

What do you think? Would you change, add or remove something?

I can't find the draft of these guys I'd done for my own project, but off the top of my head I think I'd bumped them to 4W since they felt too squishy in the age of multi-damage attacks. I'd also turned lightning weaponry into partial tesla weapons (18"/Rapid Fire 1/S7/AP-1/D1/6s to hit are 2 hits) rather than giving them more damage since they are supposed to be the primary Troops of an Ordo Reductor list and they should have some capacity to clear chaff, even if it isn't really an efficient use of them.

I'm skeptical of non-optional Gets Hot on the photon thruster; from my experience trying to use adrasite weapons on the beta Custodes rules I find that even when softened to one mortal wound I just find myself not taking the option for adrasite weapons because I can't guarantee the reroll and to-hit penalties screw with the weapon too much. I'd rather see more AP than more damage on the rad-cleanser; with that profile the payoff for going to all the time and energy and trouble of getting the flamer template where you want it is a 77% chance of killing one Space Marine, which doesn't feel at all scary.

I'd like to see Thallax integrated into the 40k Mechanicum army list so you don't have to pay the extra HQ tax for using 30k models and 40k models in the same list, but if you want them to still be around for the Dark Mechanicum it does present some wonky keywords/special rules problems unless you're going to split up the datasheet into loyal/traitor.

At first I actually had the Lightning gun be: Heavy 1/18"/S7/AP-1/D1/6s to hit are 3 hits. But then I saw the lightning cannon on the Magaera Knight and just made a scaled down version of that. But I like your version better, maybe I should change it to that.

I wont change the Rad-cleanser as that is the actual rules for it. The Magaera Knight has a twin version that weapon, I just changed the 2D6 shots to D6.

The photon thruster was a tricky one, I made like five versions of that weapon and was never really happy with any

Usually GW handles situations where one statline doesn't make much sense on two different platforms by giving the weapon a slightly different name (ex. Predator autocannons having a different statline to normal autocannons), so you do have design space to futz with the rad-cleanser or the multi-laser if you want. As is I don't think there's much reason to use either.

As for the photon thruster the fundamental challenge is making it different enough from the multi-melta and the plasma-fusil to give them all roles. You might drop it to d3 damage base and give it extra mortal wounds against vehicles instead of the to-wound bonus? That'd also leave a bit more room in the design space above it for when you get to darkfire cannons.

How about this?

Would still knock Gets Hot down to 1MW rather than straight dead so they aren't leashed to reroll auras quite so hard. Without rerolls that's 11/36 (~30%) chance to straight-up die every time you attack.

How would that work if you already have a wounded model in the unit?

You'd be able to have multiple models in the unit wounded, same as it does for Custodians with adrasite weapons.

I dont think multiple models in a unit can be wounded. On the Custodian adrasite weapons it says that the bearer unit take a mortal wound. Not necessarily the bearer itself.

Oh. I've been playing that wrong. Still, then you don't have to roll each adrasite weapon individually, which is helpful on its own.

I would concur 1 MW for overheat on the photon esp on 3/4 wound models.

In 7th ED it just did 1 wound not auto death.

Would also agree 4 wounds per model...would be closer to the statline needed in 8th.


Heavy chainblade should also probably be Damage 2
For photon thrusters- don't add mortal wounds the +1 to wound vehicles I think works fine and makes it different from Volkite.
Phased plasma I would just make assault 3 range 18 or 24....rapid 2 seems like to many shots esp at 2 damage per.

Version 2

Added some temporary point values.

Where's the 40pt base price coming from? I could get a Custodian (with 2+/4++ and WS/BS 2+) for that.

chaos45 wrote:I would concur 1 MW for overheat on the photon esp on 3/4 wound models.

In 7th ED it just did 1 wound not auto death.

Would also agree 4 wounds per model...would be closer to the statline needed in 8th.


Heavy chainblade should also probably be Damage 2
For photon thrusters- don't add mortal wounds the +1 to wound vehicles I think works fine and makes it different from Volkite.
Phased plasma I would just make assault 3 range 18 or 24....rapid 2 seems like to many shots esp at 2 damage per.

hmm yes your right, the photon should probably +1 to wound and only do 1 mw on "gets-hot". I like that better I think. Should I keep the D3 damage or raise it to D6 again?

The Phased plasma do already exist in 8th, so I wont change that.

Not sure if I agree with dmg 2 on chainblade though

AnomanderRake wrote:Where's the 40pt base price coming from? I could get a Custodian (with 2+/4++ and WS/BS 2+) for that.

Thats just what they used to be, I just placed it there for the time being. What do you think it should be?

MackiMac wrote:

AnomanderRake wrote:Where's the 40pt base price coming from? I could get a Custodian (with 2+/4++ and WS/BS 2+) for that.

Thats just what they used to be, I just placed it there for the time being. What do you think it should be?

I'd suggest pricing them around 25-30pts at 4W, 20-25 at 3W. That puts them at a similar price bracket to Inceptors and Crisis suits, but they're squishier (4+ armour makes them drop really fast when heavy bolter equivalents start looking in their direction, and makes them surprisingly vulnerable to rifles since they can't get to 2+ in cover) and have fewer/weaker guns, which justifies the lower price/extra wounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

chaos45 wrote:...Should I keep the D3 damage or raise it to D6 again?...

Big problem with d6 damage on the photon thruster is that the darkfire cannon on the Castellax is supposed to be a bigger/more powerful version of the same gun, and if the intermediate-sized one is already a two-shot lascannon you've sort of hit the top of the design space.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

MackiMac wrote:

AnomanderRake wrote:Where's the 40pt base price coming from? I could get a Custodian (with 2+/4++ and WS/BS 2+) for that.

Thats just what they used to be, I just placed it there for the time being. What do you think it should be?

I'd suggest pricing them around 25-30pts at 4W, 20-25 at 3W. That puts them at a similar price bracket to Inceptors and Crisis suits, but they're squishier (4+ armour makes them drop really fast when heavy bolter equivalents start looking in their direction, and makes them surprisingly vulnerable to rifles since they can't get to 2+ in cover) and have fewer/weaker guns, which justifies the lower price/extra wounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

chaos45 wrote:...Should I keep the D3 damage or raise it to D6 again?...

Big problem with d6 damage on the photon thruster is that the darkfire cannon on the Castellax is supposed to be a bigger/more powerful version of the same gun, and if the intermediate-sized one is already a two-shot lascannon you've sort of hit the top of the design space.

Yeah 25-30pts seem about right to me. I feel like they should be 3 wounds. If you compare them to similar sized units like crisis suits, custodins or tyranid warriors which all have 3wounds.

The only difference between meltagun and a multi-melta is the range, so I do not se really it as a problem. The darkfire will have more range and strength. I could give it the same damage but with a minimum number on the damage roll if it felt to lackluster.

For base points I would probably say 30pts for a base thallax but they get to choose augment for no additional points.

As even a base loadout with a lightning gun is then 42 pts which is quite abit for a 3 wound, 4+ save.

You can quickly compare to custodes or terminators and see that at 42 pts even with a special ability they arent great but not super bad either......might even need to drop them to 25-27 pts base and they still wont be awesome due to the 4+ save lol.

Points is a tricky thing.

Here is what everything looks like att the moment.

unless the abilities are included its garbage point wise.

Guess if you want it for pure fun overpointed play have at it, but nowhere near useable in anything resembling competitive play at those point values.

Will it be good if I remove the cost for the augmentations? Or would you change something else aswell?

My recommendation is make them 30 pts even with the ability to choose 1 augmentation for no additional points.

This makes one with a lightning gun 42 pts and 47 pts if you add the heavy chain blade.

I think that makes them playable IMO..not to awesome and not to bad either.

I think you should be able to do some test games with people at that point level and see how they do.

I think you will find that with a 4+ save even with T5 they will die fairly easily which is why you don't want them to have to high of a point cost.

Custodes start at 40 pts each and are much tougher with a 2+/4++...much harder to kill and end up around 50-60 points once you buy equipment. Also custodes have better skills being 2+ BS/WS