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Ah, the Fallen. Everyone's favorite power-armored knightly marines of questionable loyalty, scattered across space and time, always on the run from their brethren who really know how to bear a grudge.
They also have a grand total of 2 units. Even with the specialist detachment, you only get the options to add in a sorceror and a Chaos Rhino, which goes a long way to improving the Fallen as an army (giving psychic, mobility, and daemon access via the sorceror), but still leaves them as EXTREMELY limited. For an army that basically had legion strength when the Dark Angels came a-calling at Aldurukh and is even now supposed to be gathering in legion strength under Luther's leadership, they don't actually have a lot of options.
This, then, is an attempt to expand the types of units available to them without just saying "just run them as Dark Angels." (or Deathwatch, or CSM, or whatever). It's also meant to thematically expand upon some of their themes.
For instance, knights on Caliban rode great warhorses into battle. Considering how much the Order loved tradition, I think it'd be cool for the Fallen to have a cavalry option that is on these horses instead of on bikes. Is it crazy? Well, it makes way more sense than riding wolves, that's for sure.
Spoiler:
Fallen Knights
This unit contains a Fallen Knight Champion and 2 Fallen Knights. It can include up to 3 additional Fallen Knights or up to 6 additional Fallen Knights. Each model is equipped with a bolt pistol, chainsword, frag grenades and krak grenades
M: 12" WS 3+ BS 3+ S4 T5 W2 A1 (2 for Champion), Ld 8 (9 for Champion), 3+ save
Wargear options: let them take different melee weapons, including shields
Abilities: Fallen Angels (even though the not-moving will almost certainly never come up, the morale one might and it's a unifying feature)
Cavalry Charge: When advancing, always 6". In a turn where Fallen Knights successfully charged, give them +1 strength and charged units -1 Ld (trying to simulate the impact of a cavalry charge, didn't give them the advance+charge though. Also pondering giving them something like an invuln against overwatch attacks, which might be nifty)
The idea is to kit out a fast moving melee option that would be thematic for the knight aesthetic and Fallen lore. They're similar to bikers but don't really have the ranged options--unlike the bikes, the horses aren't weapons platforms, for one thing. I have a plan to kitbash some Fallen on horseback just for fun, so part of this thread is to bounce around ideas for how to make a balanced way to run them in fun games. For points, I'm tempted to basically steal the points costs of bikers, since while they're better in some ways they're worse at range and the melee weaponry upgrades have their own costs. I'm divided between making them Elites or Fast Attack, to be honest.
I'd also probably be better off looking at the Ravenwing datasheet for inspiration over the Chaos Bikers sheet (especially as Ravenwing is a Calibanite term predating the Legion's arrival), but, well, I don't have all the codices.
With a mounted option, it'd probably be cool to have a similar Fallen Knight-Sorceror or Fallen Knight-Captain where it's basically the same but it's a character on a horse.
Moreover, there's the really simple point that Fallen Daemon Princes exist in the lore, but you can't take them. Sure, Fallen can't have Marks of Chaos, but that would just make it a Chaos Undivided Daemon prince--or, if you wanted to go really deep into the rabbit hole of special Fallen rules, an Ouroboros-aligned Daemon Prince.
Another really simple "just port it over" addition is to expand the Fallen's access to tanks to encompass the whole CSM range. Sure, don't let them have daemon engines, but are Predator tanks too much to ask for? Though to be entirely fair I don't like modeling vehicles that much so probably wouldn't run anything other than Rhinos anyway, but it's the spirit of the matter.
Something else I'd like to come up with is a unique psychic discipline for the Fallen, given how they're more closely tied to the Ouroboros than the Gods of Chaos proper. Besides, without the Heretic Astartes keyword, they can only use 1/3 of the powers in the CSM book.
Spoiler:
Ouroboros Discipline
1. Force of Life and Death (or something like that)
Heal d3 or restore a model to a unit. Not sure on warp charge or range or anything. I'm willing to bet that there are similar powers out there
2. The Conqueror Worm's... something.
Take over a model for a turn. Basically Treason of Tzeentch, I guess.
3.
4,
5,
6.
Gonna be honest, while I want to come up with custom psychic I don't really have ideas for them (unlike my much more thought-out plan for the knights above). It's an area that I'm definitely looking for suggestions and feedback on.
Special Character ideas
Based off of fluff stuff, probably stratagem reliant like the Chapter Master strat. Right now I have names that I kinda want to come up with rules for but not much more.
First Master (cough cough Astelan cough cough)--Basically a Chaos Lord for Fallen. Sure, Cypher has an aura to reroll 1s already, but he can only be in so many places at once
Master of the Mystai--improved sorceror
Luther, the man himself--probably roughly equivalent to Abbadon, right? Chaos gave him power, he was able to go toe-to-toe with a primarch, and now he's on the loose somewhere with a bunch of friends.
Calibanite beasts--I'm tempted to just summon in daemons to fill this key part of Calibanite lore or use Chaos Spawn, but I'm not sure.
Obviously, I'm more than happy for suggestions and feedback (that's part of why I've posted it here, after all). This is a concept that's been rattling around my head for a while, for all that I only have a few concrete ideas.
You might wonder why I'm concerned about points values, specialist detachment restrictions, etc, for what is fundamentally a narrative play casual house rules thing. I don't really have an answer other than "I want it to be reasonably balanced within the constraints of current 40k, and it feels right to me to take this into consideration even as a casual player."
Fan of lore, stealthy black-armored marines, life-alert black-armored marines, and lunatic necrons.
A question from the ignorant: what makes the Fallen unique aside from their ability to potentially be taken in either imperial or chaos armies and their ability to benefit from Cypher's rules?
Would it, perhaps, be easier and make more sense to just create a Fallen chapter tactic and a Fallen legion trait and let Cypher choose between those two?
That would let them play in imperial or chaos armies, give them access to either the full marine line or the full chaos marine line, and remove a lot of complexity regarding how they're fielded.
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
You know, you're probably right. That would be a simpler and more elegant solution in all likelihood, although you'd probably have to make a list of units that they couldn't take (such as Primaris stuff, or Daemon engines).
It's odd, because the Fallen datasheet has so many weapon options you could honestly field it as dedicated melee or dedicated shooting, even though it's way better at shooting. Having a rule where Fallen count as troops if Cypher is in your army or is your warlord would also go a long way, for all that it doesn't help the restrictions in what armor or other characters you can take.
Fan of lore, stealthy black-armored marines, life-alert black-armored marines, and lunatic necrons.
Benionin wrote: You know, you're probably right. That would be a simpler and more elegant solution in all likelihood, although you'd probably have to make a list of units that they couldn't take (such as Primaris stuff, or Daemon engines).
It's odd, because the Fallen datasheet has so many weapon options you could honestly field it as dedicated melee or dedicated shooting, even though it's way better at shooting. Having a rule where Fallen count as troops if Cypher is in your army or is your warlord would also go a long way, for all that it doesn't help the restrictions in what armor or other characters you can take.
There are Chapter Tactics that put a restriction on what units can be used with them already (mostly in the context of Imperial Armour, though also some relating to Stormtroopers and Brood Brothers), it'd be perfectly fine if you were to write "only (these models) may have the Fallen Chapter Tactic." You'd probably keep a "Fallen" unit profile just because SM/CSM don't have a "veteran" Troops choice the way you'd want for a Fallen army (like how Stormtroopers are Troops despite having a veteran statline/equipment/pricetag), though, and because 8e doesn't have "use (datasheet X) and change its battlefield role" in its organizational language.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/18 04:07:09
