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Made in gb
Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot





Freezing to death outside the Fang

Ok guys, I''m looking for a bit of army building advice. I'm currently in possession of Fulgrim, Eidolon, 10 Palatine Blades with jump packs 4 spears/6 swords, 10 kakophoni and 2 apothecaries.

I'm looking at picking up another 10 kakophani as I'm keen to run 3rd company and possibly include a Esoterist or some daemon allies as I want to theme my army around the events of Path of Heaven/Soul Severed where they've discovered daemons and are beginning to become quite warped themselves. I obviously would like to keep to a theme but also have a decent army on the tabletop. What should I be looking to add?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/06 01:55:42


host of the eternity king 3500pts+ lizardmen 1000pts
and 2000pts+ 8000+ pts 1400+ pts
HH 7700+ pts 1350 pts HH raven guard 2500+ pts 50 pp Idoneth Deepkin 2000 pts 
   
Made in de
Happy We Found Our Primarch




Nice Idea.

But unfortunaly it will not work as you envisioned.
The reason beeing "3rd Company Elite" barring you from taking any kind of Space Marine Allies. Therefore the first thing you will have to look after are viable troop-choices.

I would recoment Assault Marines as they can provide Anti-tank capacities and an other fast unit and distraction for the Palatines (I assume you are playing them and Eidolon with Jump-packs.)

Next thing to consider would be "how to get Fulgrim into close-combat? And how many points are you planning to run?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/05 11:22:42


 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







The Emperor's Children are pretty focused around melee charge bonuses/combat resolution, which makes them much stronger if you have a way of making sure you get the charge instead of the other guy. Assault Marines and vehicles with assault ramps (Storm Eagle, Phobos Land Raider, Spartan) both good ways of doing that.

Third Company Elite is a weird Rite of War, because your Legion rules are so melee-centric but the Rite gives you strong ranged units in Troops. I might suggest using a unit or two of Kakophoni and taking melee Tacticals or Assault Squads for the rest of your Troops to get more use out of your Legion rules and your Sonic Shriekers, the Kakophoni provide strong anti-infantry firepower but don't do a whole lot to mechanized lists so you're going to need to put together some anti-tank firepower as well.

A Spartan or a Storm Eagle would solve a few problems at once for you, since it gets you a delivery vehicle for Fulgrim, some better anti-tank firepower, and an assault ramp to get shock units up in your enemy's face faster.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
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Made in gb
Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot





Freezing to death outside the Fang

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The Emperor's Children are pretty focused around melee charge bonuses/combat resolution, which makes them much stronger if you have a way of making sure you get the charge instead of the other guy. Assault Marines and vehicles with assault ramps (Storm Eagle, Phobos Land Raider, Spartan) both good ways of doing that.

Third Company Elite is a weird Rite of War, because your Legion rules are so melee-centric but the Rite gives you strong ranged units in Troops. I might suggest using a unit or two of Kakophoni and taking melee Tacticals or Assault Squads for the rest of your Troops to get more use out of your Legion rules and your Sonic Shriekers, the Kakophoni provide strong anti-infantry firepower but don't do a whole lot to mechanized lists so you're going to need to put together some anti-tank firepower as well.

A Spartan or a Storm Eagle would solve a few problems at once for you, since it gets you a delivery vehicle for Fulgrim, some better anti-tank firepower, and an assault ramp to get shock units up in your enemy's face faster.

Some good points you make there, I’d quite forgetter about the legion rules themselves. Do you think a couple of Veteran Tactical Squads with power weapons in Rhinos would be a good call? Perhaps 9 of them with an apothecary in each? The could certainly benefit from the +1 I on the charge combined with Shriekers. Or should I keep it cheap and just go for some regular tacticals kitted out with Bolters, pistols and CCWs?
I hadn’t really thought as far as anti tank to be honest, I can certainly see why a Spartan would be a good fit, I’d just worry that a Spartan deathstar with Fulgrim is going to eat up too many points for what it can actually do. I was previously tempted to take some Phoenix Terminators but I’m aware that putting them with Fulgrim and going hunting for other deathstars isn’t the right thing to be doing with them. Would some squadrons of Predators or Sicarans perhaps be better for some tank hunting?
What do you think about running some daemon allies or taking an Esoterist to summon some? Could I use that to my advantage to shore up the lack of numbers perhaps?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/06 01:55:05


host of the eternity king 3500pts+ lizardmen 1000pts
and 2000pts+ 8000+ pts 1400+ pts
HH 7700+ pts 1350 pts HH raven guard 2500+ pts 50 pp Idoneth Deepkin 2000 pts 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







Daemons are...odd. They'll overlap really heavily with the rest of your force as they're mostly shock-melee focused, but one of the things they do really well is psychic, and that can be really, really random in 30k. I wouldn't suggest taking an Esoterist and hoping he'll get you some Daemons; it's possible, but psykers in 30k are very unreliable if you don't have Daemons/Thousand Sons levels of extra Mastery levels on the table feeding you more dice, and the summoning powers are going to be really hard to get off. Ruinstorm Allies are going to be similarly unpredictable, especially as they're forced to start in Reserves, but you at least know you have some.

I'm not sure about the TacVets. They pay a lot to be a general-purpose squad and they're good at it, but Rhinos aren't that good at delivering assault units. They're fragile enough that they tend to get you some of the way up the table instead of all of the way, and while you can disembark and shoot you can't disembark and charge. They also don't help with the question of Troops in Third Company Elite the way melee Tacticals or Assault Squads would.

As to the Spartan you don't necessarily need the full deathstar experience (10 Terminators + Primarch + Primus Medicae or Chaplain), I know it's got enough space for that but you can just as easily stuff Fulgrim in there with a squad of Palatine Blades, Tactical Veterans, or just Tacticals and it's still tough as nails, can rush about while putting lascannon fire into things, and gets Fulgrim where he needs to go.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in gb
Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot





Freezing to death outside the Fang

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Daemons are...odd. They'll overlap really heavily with the rest of your force as they're mostly shock-melee focused, but one of the things they do really well is psychic, and that can be really, really random in 30k. I wouldn't suggest taking an Esoterist and hoping he'll get you some Daemons; it's possible, but psykers in 30k are very unreliable if you don't have Daemons/Thousand Sons levels of extra Mastery levels on the table feeding you more dice, and the summoning powers are going to be really hard to get off. Ruinstorm Allies are going to be similarly unpredictable, especially as they're forced to start in Reserves, but you at least know you have some.

I'm not sure about the TacVets. They pay a lot to be a general-purpose squad and they're good at it, but Rhinos aren't that good at delivering assault units. They're fragile enough that they tend to get you some of the way up the table instead of all of the way, and while you can disembark and shoot you can't disembark and charge. They also don't help with the question of Troops in Third Company Elite the way melee Tacticals or Assault Squads would.

As to the Spartan you don't necessarily need the full deathstar experience (10 Terminators + Primarch + Primus Medicae or Chaplain), I know it's got enough space for that but you can just as easily stuff Fulgrim in there with a squad of Palatine Blades, Tactical Veterans, or just Tacticals and it's still tough as nails, can rush about while putting lascannon fire into things, and gets Fulgrim where he needs to go.

There's a few interesting bits of psyarkana in book 8 which certainly make psykers very tempting, namely the Empath Bonds, Aetherkine Projectors and the Liber Magra Venificarum. It would certainly be interesting to take an esoterist and librarian (or a character with the Veneficarum) and give them the Empath bonds. 2 psykers would give a bigger dice pool and would offer a bit more flexibility in terms of powers.
IIRC Ruinstorm Daemons can arrive from reserves in turn 1, which would mean that the reserves are actually pretty useful, especially if you go second.
For me I feel vet tacs and regular tacs both suffer from the same problem in this scenario, the cheapest options for assault vehicles are either land raiders or dreadclaws which both eat up points very quickly. Maybe I should just treat them like I do grey slayers and run a big blob of 15-20 with CCW, bolters and pistols up the board.
Perhaps a smaller deathstar with a primus medicae with a Veneficarum would be a good option? certainly would be thematic.

host of the eternity king 3500pts+ lizardmen 1000pts
and 2000pts+ 8000+ pts 1400+ pts
HH 7700+ pts 1350 pts HH raven guard 2500+ pts 50 pp Idoneth Deepkin 2000 pts 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







The cost of assault transports is why I keep suggesting Assault Marines rather than Tacticals.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
 
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