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2020/04/13 20:37:16
Subject: Trying to make a local campaign/narrative based competition - need help with design and advice!
With Covid-19 lockdown giving me plenty of time to write, I've decided to pursue a longterm dream of mine - to run a big long 40k campaign that is also a competitive competition.
Obviously this requies a lot of work and I'm taking the time that all the local gaming clubs are closed to draw up my plans and recruit players, so that when the clubs eventually reopen we can get going right away.
I've included the document I've got so far which explains the concepts in more theory, as well as outlining some of the wider ideas I've had that influence the overall narrative side of things. Needless to say, I have little experience running either events, roleplaying games, campaigns, etc. If anyone out there is willing to take a look at my work so far, give me some pointers or suggestions, or advice in general, I'd very much appreciate it.
I'll drop the doc below and let you all read. It would be too complex explaining myself in advance so I'll answer any questions or give my reasoning as needed. But to preview, I've named it "Dawn of War," as I envision all manner of armies coming to fight over a single sector as happens in the Dawn of War games.
Also, if I'm in the wrong section please feel free to move me, Mods! This just seemed like the best place to put it.
Please bear in mind this is an early draft - be kind with your feedback!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/04/13 22:37:56
I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
I started an Instagram! Follow me at Deadshot Miniatures! DR:90+S++G+++M+B+IPw40k08#-D+++A+++/cwd363R+++T(Ot)DM+ Check out my Deathwatch story, Aftermath in the fiction section!
Credit to Castiel for banner. Thanks Cas!
2020/04/13 20:41:49
Subject: Trying to make a local campaign/narrative based competition - need help with design and advice!
JNAProductions wrote: Can you put it in a google doc or something? I do not have word, but wish to provide critique.
Added to the OP in place of word version! THanks in advance!
I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
I started an Instagram! Follow me at Deadshot Miniatures! DR:90+S++G+++M+B+IPw40k08#-D+++A+++/cwd363R+++T(Ot)DM+ Check out my Deathwatch story, Aftermath in the fiction section!
Credit to Castiel for banner. Thanks Cas!
2020/04/14 00:13:42
Subject: Trying to make a local campaign/narrative based competition - need help with design and advice!
Skimming now... I’m not sure you want to make it a narrative TOURNAMENT. With prizes and all that. Especially given the amount of homebrew you’re gonna have.
Also, penalties for defeat make losses snowball. That’s a bad thing
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2020/04/14 01:49:24
Subject: Trying to make a local campaign/narrative based competition - need help with design and advice!
JNAProductions wrote: Skimming now... I’m not sure you want to make it a narrative TOURNAMENT. With prizes and all that. Especially given the amount of homebrew you’re gonna have.
Also, penalties for defeat make losses snowball. That’s a bad thing
How about adding penalties for winning instead? For instance if a game starts out at 2000pts vs 2000pts, the winner gets a 5% penalty in points for their next game, as the points are to reflect units that are left behind to hold the ground taken.
So in the end, a winner might end up winning even with a -30% or even -40% army size against their opponents! Some might say that there is no incentive to winning, but in that case the final victor is the prize - this just keeps it interesting.
Say we look at Macharius's Guard:
Game 1 -0%
2000pts vs 2000pts
Victory
Game 2 -5%
1900pts vs 2000pts
Victory
Game 3 -10%
900pts vs 1000pts
Victory
Game 4 -15%
1275pts vs 1500pts
Loss
Game 5 -15%
1700pts vs 2000pts
Loss
Game 6 -15%
1700pts vs 1900pts (enemy has won a game)
Victory
And so on...
The eventual winner will have the biggest modifier, to reflect the territory their forces have now taken hold of.
I will not rest until the Tabletop Imperial Guard has been reduced to complete mediocrity. This is completely reflected in the lore.
2020/04/14 09:27:17
Subject: Trying to make a local campaign/narrative based competition - need help with design and advice!
One thing to consider is to combine the idea of a handicap for better players with an increase in "campaign points" for beating higher ranked players and larger lists.
Gorkamorka is a good thing to look through. Essentially, if you joined mid-campaign and had a weak mob, and you fought the best mob in the game with all the gubbins and shiny bits, even if you were ground into the dirt, you gained loads of xp and your mob got a lot better, because they had the experience of fighting da best. Meanwhile, the powerful player got little to no xp, as they only fought a weak, easy target.
I am just reading the Army Roster, and it sounds a little skewed, perhaps. It seems to favour armies who don't have as many options, due to the assertion of "units may be added multiple times to an army list".
An example:
Orks put a unit of slugga boys and a unit of shoota boys in their roster, and they can fill an army with these if they want to.
Space Marines put a unit with a plasmagun, a unit with a meltagun, a unit with a flamer, a unit with a lascannon, etc. etc. They need to spend a lot more points to utilize the flexibility which makes their armies effective.
I would instead consider (though it may be excessive) giving each player:
A Roster of non-characters
A Roster of Characters
An armoury of upgrades
As weapons now have their own points, rather than costing differently depending on who they are for, you can readily create an "arsenal" of weapons for a player to select from.
Then, as a reward for playing games and to comply with the narrative, give players more points for their armoury, but they will have to add to it immediately - "you found 100 points of weapons, add them to your armoury now".
This way you won't have the oddity of each melta- or plasma-marine refusing to be parted from his specific squad.
To suit the "realism" of the campaign you're trying to make (IE you have an army, and have to split it up) I would recommend the structure be like this:
Players start with 5,000 points. up to 1500 can be spent of upgrades & weapons (tweak as needed to make it work) and up to 1000 points can be spent on HQ's
(this removes the "wriggle room" you gave, and stops you having to trawl through 31 army lists to see who's taking the urine - harder rules are better for structure than loose ones!)
Players are then given 2-3 calls for their army - 2-3 battles for which they must allocate portions of their army. There will be guidelines for the missions and their impact on their scores, as well as a guideline for their army size.
Then, you will also have to set up some benefits and handicaps for taking different sized armies into the battles.
For Example:
Mission 1: Intercept Enemy Data (1000 pts)
Maelstrom game, Winner gets 2 extra Campaign Points if they slay the enemy warlord in Mission 3.
Mission 2: Intercept Supply Lines (1250 pts)
Objectives game with a central radio mast to take. Any player who holds it for 2 consecutive turns (and whoever holds it at the end of the game) gains 50pts for their Armoury.
Mission 3: Push them back! (2000 pts)
Straight up battle, whoever wins gets 5 campaign points.
Then there would also be some mismatch rules to implement:
If you have 250 points or more over the opponent:
- You always go second
If you have 500 points or more over the opponent:
- You cannot roll to seize the initiative
If you have 750 points or more over the opponent:
- You always deploy your whole army before the opponent
(these are just a guide, and would need to be tweaked to suit)
You could also have a "Call for Reserves!" stratagem for the campaign. This is assuming you have a field-base somewhere nearby.
Call For Reserves! - on seeing the opponents forces, your commander sends a message back to base - we need more men! At the start of any of your turns, add 1 non-superheavy unit from your reserve into your army list for 1CP. Add up to 3 of any units from your reserve for 3CP. A unit which is added from reserves is deployed within your deployment zone and within 6" of a table edge at the start of your next turn.
Reserves would be units on your roster who aren't on any army list. They are added to an army list when the stratagem is used, so you can't use them for several battles at once.
This would mean that, if you know the enemy has a superheavy from a previous battle, you can keep your 4 lascannon longfangs in reserve, and bring them out when the superheavy appears. But, you don't know whether that superheavy is in their reserves, you'll only know if they're calling for them - so it'll involve a bit of bluffing!
I might write up some campaign stuff myself, now there's more time!
12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
I am Thoruk, the Barbarian, Slayer of Ducks, and This is my blog!
Thanks for all the replies folks! I appreciate the feedback and am moving to work it into my development and will report back with further drafts later.
In other news, I've been working on some concepts for Grand Stratagems, to give an idea of what I'm going for with these. They are supposed to be super powerful, game-changing, but limited in that each player only has 5 Grand Command Points to spend throughout the entire event.
Space Marines
Spoiler:
Fallen Hero The loss of a Chapter’s hero is devastating, but the sacrifice can spur his Battle-Brothers on to win the day. Recovering his mortal or mechanical form to return to the Fortress-Monastary is victory unto itself.
ADEPTUS ASTARTES Grand Stratagem.
Use this Stratagem when an ADEPTUS ASTARTES CHARACTER or DREADNOUGHT model is slain. Leave that model where it is, instead of removing if from the table. That model is now an Objective Marker. If the model’s owner controls that Objective at the end of the game, it is worth D3 Victory Points. If the unit that died was a non-VEHICLE unit, and was controlled by an APOTHECARY, the ADEPTUS ASTARTES player instead gains 3 VP at the end of the game. If the unit that died was a DREADNOUGHT unit, and was controlled by an TECHMARINE, the ADEPTUS ASTARTES player instead gains 3 VP at the end of the game.
If the opponent controls this Objective at the end of the game, the ADEPTUS ASTARTES player loses D6VP at the end of the game instead.
Adaptive Strategy The Combat Doctrines of the Astartes lays out the techniques and strategies to excel in all theatres of war. Space Marine strike forces are able to effortless change strategy to deal with unexpected events.
ADEPTUS ASTARTES Grand Stratagem.
Use this Grand Stratagem at the beginning of any battle round. If the Devastator Doctrine would normally be in effect, this is changed to the Assault Doctrine. If the Tactical Doctrine would normally be in effect, this is changed to the Devastator Doctrine. If the Assault Doctrine is in effect, this changed to the Tactical Doctrine. This effect lasts until the end of the battle round, and the active Doctrine will apply as normal after this. You may only use this Grand Stratagem once per battle.
Adeptus Custodes
Spoiler:
Imperial Might
Such is the might of the Adeptus Custodes, when they take to the field victory is entered into Imperial records by default. This is not always reflected in reality, but history always sides with the Golden Host.
Adeptus Custodes Grand Stratagem.
Use this Stratagem after a game has ended, when an army containing an ADEPTUS CUSTODES Warlord loses a battle. The ADEPTUS CUSTODES player will receive 3CVP as if they had won the game. However, all IMPERIUM units will receive a -1Ld penalty in the next round. In addition, the player using this Stratagem will have a 20% points penalty in their next game, representing the losses suffered.
Astra Militarum
Spoiler:
Burden of Command
When an officer of the Imperial Guard falls in battle, it can be devastating for troop morale. Strict command structures are put in place to ensure when one leader falls, another is ready to assume the mantle and continue the fight against the enemies of Mankind.
ASTRA MILITARUM Grand Stratagem.
Use this Grand Stratagem at the end of a game in which a Warmaster with the ASTRA MILITARUM Keyword is slain. Your opponent does not receive additional VP for the Slay the Warlord objective. In addition, unless the Warmaster was also a Commander, your opponent does not gain the additional 1CVP for Humiliating the Enemy.
Chaos Daemons
Spoiler:
Fickle Fate
The Changer of Ways is weaver of fates, and those facing the its minions may find their luck run out quicker than expected.
CHAOS DAEMON STRATAGEM Grand Stratagem.
Use this Grand Stratagem at the beginning of the game, if your Warlord has the TZEENTCH Keyword. Once per phase, in both players’ turns, you may use one of the following effects: 1- When you opponent rolls any die or dice, choose one of those dice after seeing the result of the roll. Your opponent must reroll that die and the result cannot be rerolled or modified. 2- When your opponent uses a Stratagem or special rule to reroll any dice, choose one of those dice. That die cannot be rerolled.
Orks
Spoiler:
Follow me, ya gitz!
The Imperium has long documented that killing an Ork Warboss is the quickest method to end an Ork Waaagh!, as infighting leads to its collapse. Unless one Nob is big enough and green enough to take over.
ORK Grand Stratagem.
Use this Grand Stratagem whenever your Warlord with the ORK Keyword is slain. Target 1 CHARACTER model with the highest Strength Value in your army. If all eligible models are equal, choose which model will be the target of that Stratagem. That model is now Da Boss and gains its Warlord Trait. That model also gains the WARBOSS Keyword and Waaagh! and Breakin’ Heads abilities. If your original Warlord was also your Warmaster, the target of this Stratagem becomes its new Warmaster.
Bigger, Meaner, Greener
Orks thrive on violence, and even grow bigger and stronger when they are involved in conflict. The infamous Beast of M32 brought with him Prime Orks of incredible size and ferocity. The delirious violence of this war has led some Ordo Xenos officials to believe that the Prime Orks may rise again.
ORK Grand Stratagem.
Use this Grand Stratagem in Round 4 or later of the campaign, at the start of any game, and only once per game. Select up to 5 CHARACTER or NOB units that do not have the PRIME ORK Keyword and are not a named character. These units gain the PRIME ORK Keyword, and the following benefits: +1M, +1S, +1T, +1W, +1Ld. These benefits last for the rest of the campaign. If a non-CHARACTER unit with the PRIME ORK Keyword is removed from the table (by being destroyed, failing morale, or any other reason), it loses the PRIME ORK keyword for the rest of the campaign.
Necrons
Spoiler:
Machine Learning
The robotic minds of the Necrons allow them to make flawless calculations of their enemy’s trajectory, predict enemy manoeuvres and adjust accordingly to counter.
NECRON Grand Stratagem. Use this Grand Stratagem at the beginning of a game if your Warlord has the NECRON Keyword. During this game, every time your opponent uses a Stratagem, the CP cost of that stratagem increases by 1 for the rest of the game. This effect is cumulative.
Drukhari
Spoiler:
Prisoners of Pain
To face the fell Drukhari is a fate worse than death, for they do not kill their victims. The scions of Commoragh capture their victims and drag them back to their stronghold to fight in arenas and suffer tortures unimaginable.
Drukhari Grand Stratagem.
Use this Grand Stratagem at the end of a battle, if your army contains a AELDARI Warlord. For each enemy unit that was destroyed by a DRUKHARI unit, gain 1 VP. For each enemy CHARACTER that ended the game within 1” of DRUKHARI unit, gain 1VP.
Tyranids
Spoiler:
Ultimate War of Attrition
The vast hordes of the Tyranids are said to be without number. As the bodies of dead Xenos outnumber the living defenders, the will to fight slips away.
Tyranids Grand Stratagem.
Use this Grand Stratagem before a battle begins, if your army contains a TYRANID Warlord, other than a GENESTEALER CULT unit. From the beginning of the third Battle Round, all units in the opponent’s army suffer a -1Ld penalty at the start of each battle round. This penalty is cumulative with itself and other Ld modifiers.
Extensions of the Hive Mind
The native races of the galaxy may give names and titles to the denizens of the Hive Fleets. Swarmlord. Deathleaper. Doom of Malan’tai. These beings, like all Tyranids, at but extensions of the Hive Mind’s will, able to be spawned again and again whenever their unique skillset is needed.
Tyranids Grand Stratagem.
Use this Stratagem before a game. Select one TYRANID CHARACTER other than a GENESTEALER CULT character that has been Critically Injured. That CHARACTER is no longer Critically Injured and can be used in future games.
The Shadow Thickens
The Shadow in the Warp is the Tyranid’s most terrifying weapon, sucking the resolve of all, but particularly, shredding the minds of pyskers and destabilising Daemons.
Tyranids Grand Stratagem.
Use this Grand Stratagem before a battle begins. For this battle, the effects of the Shadow in the Warp special rule are cumulative. In addition, if a DAEMON or PSYKER unit is within 6” of 3 or more units with SHADOW IN THE WARP, roll a D6 for each model in those units. On a roll of a 6, that unit suffers a Mortal Wound.
Please let me know what you think of these so far, suggest your own or improvements that can be made in general!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/14 17:43:59
I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
I started an Instagram! Follow me at Deadshot Miniatures! DR:90+S++G+++M+B+IPw40k08#-D+++A+++/cwd363R+++T(Ot)DM+ Check out my Deathwatch story, Aftermath in the fiction section!
Credit to Castiel for banner. Thanks Cas!
2020/04/14 19:22:36
Subject: Trying to make a local campaign/narrative based competition - need help with design and advice!
JNAProductions wrote: You say Grand Stratagems need advance approval, at least a day.
But some of those are used mid-game, based on what happens. How do you reconcile that?
Thanks for point that out! This is an early draft and in need of hard proof reading to get things right, and obviously this is one of those things. Perhaps the advance approval is not needed. This campaign/event whateber is really going to be a "friend of a friend" invite thing, rather than a hardcore event like Adepticon for example. I think I may lean towards the "trust" side of things partocularly if I scrap the prize support, and trust people to report things accurately where needed.
I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
I started an Instagram! Follow me at Deadshot Miniatures! DR:90+S++G+++M+B+IPw40k08#-D+++A+++/cwd363R+++T(Ot)DM+ Check out my Deathwatch story, Aftermath in the fiction section!
Credit to Castiel for banner. Thanks Cas!
2020/04/15 09:22:53
Subject: Trying to make a local campaign/narrative based competition - need help with design and advice!
Perhaps you could focus on making the "Grand Stratagems" somewhat isolated from the games themselves, and focus more on character or army progression as a sideline for the campaign?
For example, specific units gaining experience to improve their leadership or WS/BS, that kind of thing.
Warbosses getting stronger and tougher, chaos sorcerers knowing more powers, eldar farseers ... seeing farther? I don't know eldar . Maybe even just give the warlord 1 extra warlord trait at each "level up" event, unless they are named characters.
Focusing on elites and characters will give you a few favourable results:
1: less likely to mix them up! if I have 4 squads of boys and one of them is tougher than the rest, it could be possible to mix them up, especially if 2 units get into combat. My Warboss being the biggest and the strongest is a lot less prone to mix-ups!
2: it's easier to personalize and get involved in a smaller or more elite unit - typically elites have more character than troops, so it's cool to think that they are learning skills as they go - the troops are mainly just dying!
You could also have the option to get Reinforcements instead - gain 300 points (guesstimation) to your roster.
I think that Warlord Traits and Roster Points may be the way to go. It uses existing (mostly) balanced rules, and means you don't have to account for every possible HQ unit in the game. You could simply state "after the 4th, 8th, 12th and 16th rounds, all players get one extra warlord trait for one character in their army - this is written on the roster and cannot change." - this means it's something they've learnt (EG my WAAAGH! banner nob learnt "breakin' heads", or my big mek gained big-things hunter). Maybe even state that no character can have 2, so they all learn bits but no single model gets a combination which is overpowered. Your warlord can still pick a trait for the battle, but the "veterans" in your roster have their own kinda-unique special rules. Roster Points opens the door for people who don't want or can't use a warlord trait, so they don't feel like they drew the short straw.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/04/15 09:24:28
12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
I am Thoruk, the Barbarian, Slayer of Ducks, and This is my blog!