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Hey guys - first post here.

Over lockdown some friends and I have pretty heavily got back into the hobby and it's been amazing. I chose Primaris-only Ultramarines and have been building a load of the models I find coolest. I want to build a decent starter list just so I know what to aim for and have a bit of a shopping list for bits I may be neglecting.

Of the list below I own the Captain, 10 Intercessors, Infiltrators, Aggressors and Ancient. I love all these models, but it's no problem if you more experienced folks think something else would be better.

We're playing casually but we've all got a fairly competitive streak and I fear there's been a lot of power research going on in quarantine. I'll be up against Death Guard, Raven Guard, Orks and Drukhari.

Here's what I cluelessly put together, let me know if it's terrible:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [52 PL, 992pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selection**: Ultramarines

+ HQ +

Chief Librarian Tigurius [7 PL, 130pts]: 1) Veil of Time, 3) Null Zone, 6) Psychic Fortress, Warlord

Lieutenants [5 PL, 64pts]
. Lieutenant: Bolt pistol, Power sword

Primaris Captain [5 PL, 86pts]: Master-crafted auto bolt rifle, Power sword, The Sanctic Halo

+ Troops +

Infiltrator Squad [5 PL, 120pts]: Infiltrator Comms Array, Infiltrator Sergeant
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 90pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant: Power sword

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 90pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant: Power sword

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 90pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant: Power sword


+ Elites +

Aggressor Squad [5 PL, 111pts]: 2x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant
. Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

Primaris Ancient [4 PL, 69pts]

Venerable Dreadnought [6 PL, 142pts]: Twin lascannon
. Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter: Storm bolter

++ Total: [52 PL, 992pts] ++

Welcome to Dakka, the Hobby, and Ultramarines.

Overall your list looks fine for a starting list. You can split a HQ and the elites off into another detachment for more CPs.

HQs are fine. You have the Cpt and Lt for the double buff bubble, and Tigs for some psychic punch. I don’t field librarians that often, but swapping powers around is pretty simple, and can be adjusted once you get a feel of what your local meta looks like.

Infiltrators are either worth it or not. You pay a pretty penny for the ability to set up wherever and hard counter DS lists. But compare to the fire power of a basic squad of intercessors, which cost a lot less. So against lists that DS close, worth every point. Against the rest, not so much. The comm array is useless in your list. It only works with phobos HQs.

I think all the rifle options for intercessors are valid these days, but the basic rapid fire is a solid choice, especially for Ultras. IMHO the best, but if you want to trick out squads for specific jobs the others have a place. I like swords on my sarges, but if you have the bits and points, firsts/THs pack a punch.

Aggressors put out the firepower, but are slow. Work well as Ultras.

Ancients are a little odd. Statistically they boost your damage output, but just feel random to me. YMMV. Thematically, it’s always nice to fly the colors so the foes of mankind know who’s wrath they will face.

Ven dread is both your only ranged AV firepower and your only vehicle. He’s going to eat every lascannon (or equivalent) from the other side of the table. You can keep Tig next to him for the -1 to hit, and/or look into other buffs.

Overall you are a little light on mobility and AV firepower. Now Ultras can keep up some firepower while moving once they hit the Tac doctrine, so that will help. But for hard targets, you are looking at the dread and CC from the aggressors. At 1,000 points that might be enough. Depends a lot on what you see across the table.

What I might do is cut one of your troop picks for something with a little more teeth. Not a lot of points to work with, and the limited primaris range doesn’t help.

Cut one squad of intercessors and the com relay gives you 100 points to play with.
Eliminators
Supressors
Impulsor

are all options with pros/cons to each. One thing to think about is what you want to do long term. Obviously building, testing, and getting experience is best. But you don’t want to grab things for low points you are going to cut from a 2k list.

May the Emperor guide you,
Courage and Honour!

You could get a bit more mileage out of your lieutenant if you were to drop him from powersword to chainsword, because the relic "teeth of terra" boosts number of attacks, AND damage, AND strength, and costs only 1 cp. With a powersword he is scary to a squad of gaurd, with the teeth of terra swinging, he is their DOOM.
I often use lieu + teeth as a budget countercharge piece, although he is even happier with jump pack.

Eliminators and suppressors have good use to them -- but the eliminators abiltiy to snipe from behind LOS at enemy characters probablyl gives them more added value for their low point cost (like 72!) for a trio, than you can get out of the other two.

There is even a different eliminator build that focuses on antitank, you give 2 a "lasfusil" and one a mastercraft bolt carbine that allows the trio to fire overwatch and retreat before the enemy charge resolves. While not a perfect addition to your army for anti-tank, it would give you a couple more dice to throw.

So, well, if I were in your shoes, I might put 3 eliminators nearly completely together but not pick their weapons and proxy them one way and the other way a few games to see if they appeal. the 72 point 3 sniper option is pretty much a no brainer, though, I mean, few 2000 point lists would be unable to make good use of them -- in part because they can join the infilitrators to start in scout positions across the board.

Having several such units that you can forward field deploy may be crucial to you when ravengaurd starts packing their alpha strike units densely on your deploy zone border -- and you just know they are going to bum rush you. Well, not so much if you block off their easy spots to put units down or to bring them in with that strategem before turn 1!

Thanks guys, loads of great help. I agree with the ancient being a bit weird - thematically I love him and the model is one of my favourites, but maybe the list could be tighter without him.

Dukesofstuff - would you suggest dropping the captain's halo for the teeth of terra? I think I'm only allowed one relic?

I like the suggestions of the Eliminators a lot, and they seem like they'll be quite useful going forward. Here's a list with them and an Impulsor:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [51 PL, 992pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selection**: Ultramarines

+ HQ +

Chief Librarian Tigurius [7 PL, 130pts]: 1) Veil of Time, 3) Null Zone, 6) Psychic Fortress, Warlord

Lieutenants [5 PL, 64pts]
. Lieutenant: Bolt pistol, Power sword

Primaris Captain [5 PL, 86pts]: Master-crafted auto bolt rifle, Power sword, The Sanctic Halo

+ Troops +

Infiltrator Squad [5 PL, 110pts]: Infiltrator Sergeant
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 90pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant: Power sword

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 90pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant: Power sword

+ Elites +

Aggressor Squad [5 PL, 111pts]: 2x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant
. Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

Venerable Dreadnought [6 PL, 142pts]: Twin lascannon
. Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter: Storm bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Eliminator Squad [4 PL, 72pts]
. Eliminator Sergeant: Bolt sniper rifle, Camo cloak
. 2x Eliminator with Bolt Sniper: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Bolt sniper rifle, 2x Camo cloak, 2x Frag & Krak grenades

+ Dedicated Transport +

Impulsor [4 PL, 97pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Shield Dome

++ Total: [51 PL, 992pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

It looks like you took a basic Lt, and not a primaris one.

There is a strategem you can take to get extra relics. One issue with a Primaris only list is that not a lot of guys can take chainswords.

I like the changes. At this point range I might have preferred the ML on the impulsor, as you don’t have a lot of platforms for big guns. And any cargo you is fairly low value. But at higher points, you could stick a hellblaster squad in there, and at that point, you are going to want the 4++, as it’s going to draw fire.

No idea how easy it is to magnetize, as I’ve not picked one up yet.

Oops, you were right about the Lt. I've just taken the regular guy with bolt pistol and power sword for now.

I do plan on magnetising the Impulsor if possible, but that's a good point about the ML! Should I be using it more as a transport or a shield?

It all comes to 997pts now, and I'm feeling better about it! Better get painting before I buy any more units. Appreciate the help!

If your running ultramarine don't sleep on the seal of Oath relic it's a beast if your opponent has something you really want dead

Your Eliminators would be better off with the Sergeant armed with an Instigator Bolt Carbine, rather than another Sniper.

Somebody somewhere has done the maths, and he is better off giving the other two +1 to hit and wound than actually shooting himself.

This also gives you an awesome trick if somebody tries to assault the squad - Covering Fire. After they shoot Overwatch, they can make a full move away - so unless the enemy is right on top of you, you will escape the charge and leave the enemy high and dry for your shooting next turn!

It looks like a third of your list is characters. I dont know if you would be better off without an ancient and/or Lt in order to buy in more aggressors. They have a huge firepower punch especially for ultramarines not to mention how hard they can hit in cc. I dont know why people say theyre slow. For infantry they move fine. 5”+advance gets them where they need to be fairly quick and you still shoot with no penalty. Spend the 2 cp on a chapter master and lose the lt. Or do whatever. Have fun with it.

It's not too hard to magnetize eliminators if you really wanted to as well. I have some magnetized and could post pics if there is interest. I have gone magnet crazy and also did my aggressors, invictors, redemptors, intercessors...

The argument for eliminator sarge shooting or buffing is skewed depending on chapter tactics. In this case I think sarge buffing is the better choice, but for raven guard or successors with built in rerolls, the sarge contributes more by shooting.

 Boss Darvaleth wrote:
Your Eliminators would be better off with the Sergeant armed with an Instigator Bolt Carbine, rather than another Sniper.

Somebody somewhere has done the maths, and he is better off giving the other two +1 to hit and wound than actually shooting himself.

This also gives you an awesome trick if somebody tries to assault the squad - Covering Fire. After they shoot Overwatch, they can make a full move away - so unless the enemy is right on top of you, you will escape the charge and leave the enemy high and dry for your shooting next turn!

I did the math because that didn't sound right to me, it turns out to be true for both the sniper rifle and the Lasfusile against every target if they're not supported. If they're standing in your aura bubble then you want the extra big gun instead.

You can't take the Teeth of Terra on the Captain, he has to be carrying a Chainsword for it to replace and the Primaris Captain can't have one of those. The Burning Blade is better anyway, and as long as you have Tiggy the Sanctic Halo isn't so necessary.

My opinion on the different Intercessor guns vs Infiltrators vs Incursors is that variety is good if you don't know what mission you'll be playing. Incursors are great for grabbing objectives early. Infiltrators are what we call "situationally brilliant" because some units aren't limited to Deep Striking outside of 9" and even the ones that aren't are usually planning to DS and charge, and the 12" bubble means they cannot do that. Give Intercessors a real melee weapon and they're at least 94 points so the cost difference isn't very noticable. I tend to favor the Autobolter Intercessors since I play White Scars and they don't get two shots out of Bolt Rifles on the move like Ultramarines do, but I almost always take a mix.

So. Some thougths.

Could an actual ultramarine player comment on the following?

1. ancient can take a relic for a bubble of +1 attack. That's nice in your hands because so much of your doctrine is getting it stuck in in melee and getting back out to shoot again.
2. nobility made manifest grants heroic interventions to your units in an aura range around the warlord. This gives you a chance to bring in things like aggressors and eliminators (both are awesome) which provide, respectively, beating the enemy into a pulp (+1 pwrfist per aggressor attack) and in the case of the eliminators, throw a few dice but mostly, use them to get the unit up front safe from being wrapped on the edge.
3. There is a strategem to allow multiple other ultramar units to fire overwatch on behalf of the front unit. So you always want to park your eliminators a bit back, your aggressors as the second rank, and the incursor or infiltirators as the front row. When you get charged, you pop this stratagem, and the eliminators fire -- and move forward, into heroic intervention range. The aggressors fire TWICE and stand ready to heroically intervene. Teh enemy engages your front line and both units come to the party, one at each end, blocking off the ability of the enemy to wrap your unit.

There is a melee. The aura of the chapter ancient (he hangs back) gives everyone +1 attack. Nice. Aggressors wreck face. The enemy tries to consolidate around your flanks -- but they grew extra units that could not be attacked in melee (as not charged) so the enemy is left unable to pin any single model.

THEN.

your turn, you pull back eliminators, aggressors, and the survivors among the incursors, to firing range. Cause you suddenly remember you have that ultramar ability to shoot after fallback (-1 to hit). The eliminators move a bit further back. Another incursor unit steps up to be the center line.

It could work, I think, and would be quite frustrating to the enemy, who is now facing 4 rounds of shooting (well, ok, one is overwatch in each of these cases, but still!) from each aggressor and 1 round of melee, + 2 roudns of shooting from each eliminator and 1 round of melee, + 2 rounds of shooting + 1 round of melee by incursors. He gets to kill as many as a squad of incursors in melee in return, but I bet your army does damage well beyond what his army can do!

I would actually consider (this is insanity I know) putting a 3 man squad of aggressors in this position with the flamer option, which is usually something you never ever ever hear me say, just for the lolls of 6d6 flames .. [potentially .. twice a turn ... and the punching.

Note that this would be a FAR more terrifying group to attack if a chaplain were granting +1 to wound litany, so that those double shooting aggressor flamers wounded at +1...

(YES, I know, I don't know what I am doing with ultramarines, but even if its situational the potential to do this would prevent a lot of enemy armies from being able to use their melee very effectively. Or so I believe.)

Having done something like it a few times, it's the kind of thing that makes it hard to find opponents. I won't put more than three Aggressors in a list anymore because I want to be able to actually play a game every now and then.