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Having finished the 3 newest Fabius bile novels I think CSM are definitely getting some kind of primaris.

The novels are set before the ones already written involving the blood angles. Except at the end there is an epilogue set after the events of all the FB novels and actually I think is set “now” in the 40K Universe.

At first I thought the novels were commissioned because A) Fabius is a Great character that can star in great stories B) the Creations of bile “army” was being released in psychic awakening.

However 2 things now make me think that both War of the spider and those 3 novels were basically a setup for CSM primaris.

A) as it stands the creations of bile army was more hype than anything else, the war of the spider book was very underwhelming for this new faction, it basically just enabled it.

B) the last word of the new books is about primaris marines and how abandon wants Fabius to get some for him, which feels like a cliffhanger for the next story which is Fabius makes CSM marines. Which was a bit disappointing.

I’m not saying we’re gonna get a straight up chaotic copy of primaris but........Something significant

They're about to have the same stats anyway. We just need a consolidation of the Manlet Marine profiles into the Primaris ones.

I doubt we'll see the CSM line go primaris as they've gotten new sculpts quite recently. But I think its quite plausible to get some sort of Primaris Mutant marine or something made from stolen/captured primaris geneseed. But this would be a single kit that builds maybe a unit or two. Another freaky unit added to the CSM menagerie like possessed or spawn.

I'm fine with it if its like that.

It's likely to be some kind of Fabius Bile/Possessed hybrid thing.

I think it will probably be a reimagining of Possessed Marines.

We'll see.

I doubt it, we will probably just see them turned into pseudo chosen with 2 wounds. Thats what they should be anyway, then add some rules that make the chaos mark functional as a counter to marine doctrines.
Chaos marines should be downright scary, I expect GDubs will head in that direction.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
It's likely to be some kind of Fabius Bile/Possessed hybrid thing.

I think it will probably be a reimagining of Possessed Marines.

We'll see.

I honestly find it kind of amazing how many times GW has flubbed possessed, both in terms of rules and models.
The greater possessed are something of step in the right direction (I'd rather a unit rather than characters, however), but they just can't seem to get thing right.

bullyboy wrote:Thats what they should be anyway, then add some rules that make the chaos mark functional as a counter to marine doctrines.

Chaos needs something more universal than marks. Another area they flub is gods A & B tend to be good, and the other two (and undivided) are pointless.

If CSM primaris replace possessed that’s great or really don’t like the possessed models.

Of course it would see odd for possessed to suddenly disappear.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They're about to have the same stats anyway. We just need a consolidation of the Manlet Marine profiles into the Primaris ones.

Nah, merge the Over-Inflated Boys into the True Marine profiles instead.

Honestly my impression is Primaris came from a line of GW management thinking that was Kirby era. I think Primaris designs were just going to be the new marine update designs and then someone in management went "hey why don't we do both!" and then boom we got Primaris and Marines at the same time.


So I think under the new management culture we won't see them repeat that for Chaos. As said above we will likely see some kind of Chaos Primaris unit, but I don't see them splitting Chaos into two armies of the same unit types just one with thicker armour.

 Overread wrote:
Honestly my impression is Primaris came from a line of GW management thinking that was Kirby era. I think Primaris designs were just going to be the new marine update designs and then someone in management went "hey why don't we do both!" and then boom we got Primaris and Marines at the same time.

The cat's out of the bag on that one, though. Plus, idk if they're a Kirby-era idea; GW of all eras likes money, and making Astartes players rebuy their gak is good business sense.

Hecaton wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Honestly my impression is Primaris came from a line of GW management thinking that was Kirby era. I think Primaris designs were just going to be the new marine update designs and then someone in management went "hey why don't we do both!" and then boom we got Primaris and Marines at the same time.

The cat's out of the bag on that one, though. Plus, idk if they're a Kirby-era idea; GW of all eras likes money, and making Astartes players rebuy their gak is good business sense.

There's money and then there is money. I think its more of a Kirby era choice. It's a decision rather like Dreadfleet in that its a choice that's designed purely to generate money, but without taking into account the attitude/reception/desirability of the market. So even though Primaris have done well, its clearly an idea that isn't universally popular. It's one created by a management team that isn't engaging with the community to find out what they want and then give it to them to generate sales.

It also doesn't really consider the future updating ideas. What will GW do with regular marines; squat them slowly over the years; squat them in one go; keep two lines of models that have basically the same construction elements and tactics but are just visually different; whilst also being within the same army at the same time. Split the Imperium into Loyalist traditional and Primarist forces etc... I think Primaris right now are a bit of a thorn and it wouldn't surprise me if GW now has to deal with trying to work out how to advance their own game and model lines without angering a big portion of their biggest customer base. Right now they are in the lull where they are keeping both lines; perhaps just kicking the can one edition down and hoping they find a golden answer.

 Overread wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Honestly my impression is Primaris came from a line of GW management thinking that was Kirby era. I think Primaris designs were just going to be the new marine update designs and then someone in management went "hey why don't we do both!" and then boom we got Primaris and Marines at the same time.

The cat's out of the bag on that one, though. Plus, idk if they're a Kirby-era idea; GW of all eras likes money, and making Astartes players rebuy their gak is good business sense.

There's money and then there is money. I think its more of a Kirby era choice. It's a decision rather like Dreadfleet in that its a choice that's designed purely to generate money, but without taking into account the attitude/reception/desirability of the market. So even though Primaris have done well, its clearly an idea that isn't universally popular. It's one created by a management team that isn't engaging with the community to find out what they want and then give it to them to generate sales.

It also doesn't really consider the future updating ideas. What will GW do with regular marines; squat them slowly over the years; squat them in one go; keep two lines of models that have basically the same construction elements and tactics but are just visually different; whilst also being within the same army at the same time. Split the Imperium into Loyalist traditional and Primarist forces etc... I think Primaris right now are a bit of a thorn and it wouldn't surprise me if GW now has to deal with trying to work out how to advance their own game and model lines without angering a big portion of their biggest customer base. Right now they are in the lull where they are keeping both lines; perhaps just kicking the can one edition down and hoping they find a golden answer.

really the best answer in the long term, assuming GW isn't happy to just keep producing both lines, is to quietly merge squad types together as much as they can. phase out intercessors, and tactical squads at the same time as you introduce a "tactical intercessor squad" which is basicly an intercessor squad with the ability to swap in heavy and support weapons ala a tac squad. etc.

I can't be the only one to notice that the most recent Chaos releases have been a bit... "chunkier". That to me says that they're not going to be wholly replaced, at least not for some time yet, or those releases wouldn't have happened.
I don't see some sort of Traitor Primaris being out of the question, mind. ...hopefully not as a completely new Codex...

BrianDavion wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Honestly my impression is Primaris came from a line of GW management thinking that was Kirby era. I think Primaris designs were just going to be the new marine update designs and then someone in management went "hey why don't we do both!" and then boom we got Primaris and Marines at the same time.

The cat's out of the bag on that one, though. Plus, idk if they're a Kirby-era idea; GW of all eras likes money, and making Astartes players rebuy their gak is good business sense.

There's money and then there is money. I think its more of a Kirby era choice. It's a decision rather like Dreadfleet in that its a choice that's designed purely to generate money, but without taking into account the attitude/reception/desirability of the market. So even though Primaris have done well, its clearly an idea that isn't universally popular. It's one created by a management team that isn't engaging with the community to find out what they want and then give it to them to generate sales.

It also doesn't really consider the future updating ideas. What will GW do with regular marines; squat them slowly over the years; squat them in one go; keep two lines of models that have basically the same construction elements and tactics but are just visually different; whilst also being within the same army at the same time. Split the Imperium into Loyalist traditional and Primarist forces etc... I think Primaris right now are a bit of a thorn and it wouldn't surprise me if GW now has to deal with trying to work out how to advance their own game and model lines without angering a big portion of their biggest customer base. Right now they are in the lull where they are keeping both lines; perhaps just kicking the can one edition down and hoping they find a golden answer.

really the best answer in the long term, assuming GW isn't happy to just keep producing both lines, is to quietly merge squad types together as much as they can. phase out intercessors, and tactical squads at the same time as you introduce a "tactical intercessor squad" which is basicly an intercessor squad with the ability to swap in heavy and support weapons ala a tac squad. etc.

For troops I think that would work fine, steadily phase out one and phase in the other. Tanks and vehicles might be a bit harder. Things like the grounded land raider and predator are quite iconic so swapping them for heavy hover tanks "might" not be as easy to swap over. Then again they could split the tank lines and keep both - one tracked one hover.

 Super Ready wrote:
I can't be the only one to notice that the most recent Chaos releases have been a bit... "chunkier". That to me says that they're not going to be wholly replaced, at least not for some time yet, or those releases wouldn't have happened.

They literally said that the new release was to bring them into scale with Marines and Primaris.

I don't see some sort of Traitor Primaris being out of the question, mind. ...hopefully not as a completely new Codex...

I do.

I also, however, see a Chaos Marines split potentially happening in the not so distant future with Emperor's Children and World Eaters getting some jazz.

 Kanluwen wrote:
They literally said that the new release was to bring them into scale with Marines and Primaris.

They did? I missed that, good to know. Although it's hardly bringing them into scale with Firstborn, since they're now a bit bigger...

With them getting the two wound treatment I don’t see them getting primaris. I do see the basic kit potential,y getting a revamp to get in lone with the current scale/asthetic.

 Dysartes wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They're about to have the same stats anyway. We just need a consolidation of the Manlet Marine profiles into the Primaris ones.

Nah, merge the Over-Inflated Boys into the True Marine profiles instead.

Nah. We already have some of the basis of Intercessors being Tactical Marines and then a Plasma Gun wielding Hellblaster. I think it can actually be pretty easy considering Manlet Marines just got the second wound. Let's be honest here, do we REALLY need a Veteran Intercessor unit entry? No. Could we just instead have A3 Sternguard be those Vet Intercessors and just not break the game? Absolutely.

mrFickle wrote:
If CSM primaris replace possessed that’s great or really don’t like the possessed models.

Of course it would see odd for possessed to suddenly disappear.

Being 15 books deep into the Horus Heresy series I really like the idea of possesed.

In my head(and I do not play chaos) I would love to see them to function as a shooting CSM troops with the option to go into "hulk" mode and switch to purely berserk style CC blender for the rest of the game.

Whatever the case I like the concept.

They’ve set up a couple doors to Chaos Primaris. The real stumbling block is Rhinos etc. if Chaos arhinos carry Primaris, but loyalist ones do not...

Breton wrote:
They’ve set up a couple doors to Chaos Primaris. The real stumbling block is Rhinos etc. if Chaos arhinos carry Primaris, but loyalist ones do not...

Could just be revamped chosen so csm chosen that are even more choseny coz primaris bile shenanigans.

Breton wrote:
They’ve set up a couple doors to Chaos Primaris. The real stumbling block is Rhinos etc. if Chaos arhinos carry Primaris, but loyalist ones do not...

There’s no reason that CSM can’t build new transports, etc it’s just GW only show any evolution of CSM in terms of demon engines. They haven’t really made their mind up if they want CSM to be the left overs of the HH or a continuous organised force and army that’s growing and making plans to assert its self.

Of course CSM are both, Emperors children are devolved into warbands and the black legion are True force in the galaxy.

This has always been my main problem with the CSM codex. Is basically codex Black Legion but it exists to allow you to build an army of your favourite legion even though you’d still need to take “modern” CSM units.

I don’t like the was GW have done codex space marines and then the supplements cos you have to buy 2 books to run your favourite chapter. But if they did that for CSM I would be relieved because at least it means they can produce a supplement for each legion over time. However we already have death guard soooooooooo. But then one could assume that death guard are so different to other CSM forces that the supplement system wouldn’t work

This again? With the boost to 2W csm don't need primaris. With good legion traits and some other good rules csm can now equal tacs, our terminators equal gravis, and Chosen and cult marines equal the various intercessor derived infantry. Now we just need Chosen moved to troops so that the Undivided Legions have a troops choice that rivals intercessors.

Voss wrote:

bullyboy wrote:Thats what they should be anyway, then add some rules that make the chaos mark functional as a counter to marine doctrines.

Chaos needs something more universal than marks. Another area they flub is gods A & B tend to be good, and the other two (and undivided) are pointless.

Oh, so now you want something other than marks to represent the Legions?

I don't think this is going to happen. Getting 2w and chonkier models is probably as close as we're going to get.

And I'm fine with that. Just get CSM better rules. We can say "warp magic" and move on in terms of why they're bigger. I'm actually a big fan of the way GW did this on the CSM side. "Hey! The new CSM will be upscaled!" and that was that. No need for a silly backstory and a ton of ham-fisting things to justify it.

I will say, that I could see Bile getting a new unit if they keep his PA entry as a army. I think it should be consolidated into the CSM book (and NOT a separate codex or supplement), but the army is really fun to play and he USE to come with a squad of his own minions. I could see a squad of juiced up marines who could be a dual kit - "Agents of Bile Super Marines" or "CSM Possessed", but that's about it. A true "Primarisification" in the way the loyalists got isn't likely or necessary imo.

Tycho wrote:
I don't think this is going to happen. Getting 2w and chonkier models is probably as close as we're going to get.

And I'm fine with that. Just get CSM better rules. We can say "warp magic" and move on in terms of why they're bigger. I'm actually a big fan of the way GW did this on the CSM side. "Hey! The new CSM will be upscaled!" and that was that. No need for a silly backstory and a ton of ham-fisting things to justify it.

I will say, that I could see Bile getting a new unit if they keep his PA entry as a army. I think it should be consolidated into the CSM book (and NOT a separate codex or supplement), but the army is really fun to play and he USE to come with a squad of his own minions. I could see a squad of juiced up marines who could be a dual kit - "Agents of Bile Super Marines" or "CSM Possessed", but that's about it. A true "Primarisification" in the way the loyalists got isn't likely or necessary imo.

I agree that he could use some of his own units, gland hounds/new men and maybe some mutants. I always wondered why servitors aren’t in CSM. But abbadon wouldn’t allow bile to be the only one with primaris units. This is fluff based though not GW logic based

What should happen is the Possessed and Chosen should be given new models and be buffed. Possessed should be allowed to take more god-specific rules that model those of the daemons inside of them. Both should be given three wounds.

About the Rhino issue, it's funny that the Imperium had to build brand new vehicles for their new Marines, but CSM are able to fit Obliterators into their old Rhinos.

 Argive wrote:

Breton wrote:
They’ve set up a couple doors to Chaos Primaris. The real stumbling block is Rhinos etc. if Chaos arhinos carry Primaris, but loyalist ones do not...

Could just be revamped chosen so csm chosen that are even more choseny coz primaris bile shenanigans.

I would be entirely happy if they'd release a set of slightly bigger and more ornate CSMs with *lots* of weapon options and called it an official Chosen kit.

Crispy78 wrote:

 Argive wrote:

Breton wrote:
They’ve set up a couple doors to Chaos Primaris. The real stumbling block is Rhinos etc. if Chaos arhinos carry Primaris, but loyalist ones do not...

Could just be revamped chosen so csm chosen that are even more choseny coz primaris bile shenanigans.

I would be entirely happy if they'd release a set of slightly bigger and more ornate CSMs with *lots* of weapon options and called it an official Chosen kit.

One could assume the next Red Corsairs "Legion", and even some of the next Red Corsairs themselves will be Primaris.

or gw could stop spanking off to Black legion and Red corsairs and finally produce a csm book worth it's price?

Not Online!!! wrote:
or gw could stop spanking off to Black legion and Red corsairs and finally produce a csm book worth it's price?

IMHO they'd be better off doing supplements. doesn't even have to be legion specific. one of each god, a "unaligned legions" and a "renegades" would proably suffice