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As it's been for a few years now, I've had a few extra discussions with my local group about using more fortifications in our games. The Shop that we all frequent happens to have a nice selection, seeing as several of us have contributed to it over the years and all of them are open the use, free to field for whoever plays. It's just that with all of the points changes, the rules and abilities being adjusted.

There are only a few viable options that we can see at this point. The Skyshield Landing Pad, Imperial Bastion and even the Fortress of Redemtion are all mostly the ones I see played, when fortifications are an option at all anyway.

I know that fortifications have a strange history within the game and it's one that's recently gotten several new models, as well as rules being pumped into it. Tau fortification models not withstanding in that same regard.

Has anyone else had some of their own issues with running fortifications?
Are we going to see some new rules pop up for them in the near future?

Fortifications are unplayable, unless you house rule them. They are overcosted, they hit on 5+, even if a unit is embarked, they cant be set up within 3" of other terrain, and they are destroyed when you cant place them. They cant hold objective markers. Just like transports, units inside cannot normally do anything, or be affected in any way while they are embarked, which creates ridiculous situations.

 Oborosen wrote:
As it's been for a few years now, I've had a few extra discussions with my local group about using more fortifications in our games. The Shop that we all frequent happens to have a nice selection, seeing as several of us have contributed to it over the years and all of them are open the use, free to field for whoever plays. It's just that with all of the points changes, the rules and abilities being adjusted.

There are only a few viable options that we can see at this point. The Skyshield Landing Pad, Imperial Bastion and even the Fortress of Redemtion are all mostly the ones I see played, when fortifications are an option at all anyway.

I know that fortifications have a strange history within the game and it's one that's recently gotten several new models, as well as rules being pumped into it. Tau fortification models not withstanding in that same regard.

Has anyone else had some of their own issues with running fortifications?
Are we going to see some new rules pop up for them in the near future?

Fortifications are just terrible. As p5freak said, without house rules, they're often literally unplayable.

They must be set up after all other terrain on the board, and must be set up 3" away from other terrain, or be destroyed. This basically makes any large fortifications [like the skyshield pad, battle sanctum, fortress of redemption, or aquila redoubt] outright unable to be placed on the table and automatically destroyed in most tables with even a below-average terrain density, leaving only a couple of small ones like the vengeance gun emplacement or bunker as even possible to be used.

Then, that small selection of even possible to be used comes with both the tax of having to be in it's own detachment and being aggressively detrimental to take even if it didn't have to be. For carrying infantry, it's like having a transport that can't move and takes your infantry out of the game as a contributing element to scoring, maneuver, or fire on it's own basically. As a weapons system, they're basically all BS-5+ with overwhelmingly lame weapons. And they're not even cheap points wise. You might as well just take a tank, you'll get better firepower, and the ability to move.

Makes me wonder why fortifications can't fire using a supporting units BS anymore.

Then again, that keeps you from abusing a Plasma battery and having your Vindicare fire the damn thing.

A BS+2, Ignores cover rule for your massive pie plate of a shot... sounds like fun.

One fortification I could see working though are IG Tarantulas (now counting as fortifications in 9th)

Basically two Heavy Bolters for 40 or two Lascannons for 50 points, with non-degrading BS 4+, T5, W4, 3+. Their stats are arguably better than two heavy weapons teams with those weapons (same wounds, weapons, BS, better T and Sv+, less points), but they cannot freely choose their targets. At least they have the range to be of some use, even if restricted to your deployment zone.
Note that I'm not saying they are strong, they just seem useable.

Fortifications have actual rules for them? I've always just used them as terrain. We've always used Bastions just as buildings, and the skyshield landing platform only as an elevated position. So they have actual rules as well? Which codex do they come with?

They're in the main rulebook aren't they?
They've had rules as far back as 6th edition I think, to encourage people to buy them even if they're not building their own table.

They're in the IG/AM codex, and the 2017 Chapter Approved (the only paper one I have to hand).
Battlescribe thinks the Firestorm redoubt is in the Index:Imperium 2.

Current fortification rules are in CA 2019, i think. Or battlescribe.

I take it this thread is meant only for discussion of UNALIGNED fortifications?

I love my Battle Sanctum, and I've got eyes on both the GSC's Tectonic Frag Drill and the Chaos Noctalith Crown.

I like the way the fortification network detachment refunds CP if the fortifications in it are from your warlord's faction.

IMO not very viable, unfortunately. How many large dinner plates can you put down in your deployment zone for a typical game? Particularly deploying on the long edge? The Bastion needs a 14" long empty space.

For new rules, I could definitely see it, as they are releasing more fortifications and they tried to push that "Bring your own terrain" mission set with the "Ammunition Storage" terrain piece with no visible ammunition or storage a few months back. So maybe they could expand that to add fortifications, but I have not heard of anyone using those rules, so maybe not.

I mean, they come in 3 forms right?

Immobile transports,
Immobile weapon batteries,
Faction terrain which can be either of the above or a buffing piece (however bad they may be)

The transports don't let you use most buffs so have a rather limited use.
The weapon batteries struggle with hitting on 5s but have some okay weapons a faction may not have.
Faction terrains are a mixed bag. Some are utter garbage, such as the Ork one and some are okay.

Fact is that the current fortification system feels more like an afterthought than anything else. You could have fun with some houserules, but you'd only take them to a tourney if you were memeing or had a very, very specific plan in mind.

As part of your army? They're a heft handicap.

As part of the battlefid as a neutral NPC interactive terrain thing that anyone can use at any time? Perfect.

Fortifications are great if you just deploy them midboard and give them a rule whereby they are part of a player's army if they are holding the fortification like an objective.

If the terrain is destructible and neither player is holding it, then both players can choose to attack it and it does not act.

Really makes the game board more interesting and interactive.

With the amount of terrain 9th calls for, they have the same problem as the Monolith. Namely, where do do you put them?

If you're using them like the Scottsman said above, that's cool. If you're trying to deploy them as an actual part of your army? Good luck.

Forts needs a 100% complete overhaul to core rules, mix with the terrain rules, and their rules as well.