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It seems they are still overcosted.

What can we do to make these iconic units see play? I think dropping their points to say 45-50 would probably be the sweet spot for points. Or otherwise we need to grant them additional abilities.

I can think of a lot of cool tactical abilities they could grant but I want opinions from others. What are some ideas?

I haven't played 9th but I can't imagine that they aren't useful. Guaranteed Alpha Strike is good. At the very least they'd be good at protecting Grav Devs until you want to deploy them.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It seems they are still overcosted.

What can we do to make these iconic units see play? I think dropping their points to say 45-50 would probably be the sweet spot for points. Or otherwise we need to grant them additional abilities.

I can think of a lot of cool tactical abilities they could grant but I want opinions from others. What are some ideas?

They do what they're designed to do and are fine as they are. You're paying a low price to cheese the limits of the deep strike rules, even on turn one, so you can contest or claim objectives or exploit any opening in an opponent's set up.

You're going to have to do a lot of work to prove they aren't taken and aren't fine.

The issue I see with them is that their value highly depends on what you put into them.

The price for Tacticals is probably too high, while for a Devastor squad it is right or too little.

Voss wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
It seems they are still overcosted.

What can we do to make these iconic units see play? I think dropping their points to say 45-50 would probably be the sweet spot for points. Or otherwise we need to grant them additional abilities.

I can think of a lot of cool tactical abilities they could grant but I want opinions from others. What are some ideas?

They do what they're designed to do and are fine as they are. You're paying a low price to cheese the limits of the deep strike rules, even on turn one, so you can contest or claim objectives or exploit any opening in an opponent's set up.

You're going to have to do a lot of work to prove they aren't taken and aren't fine.

They are straight 70 points of offense out of your army atm. They aren't taken. Lots of units that are strong can deep strike for free on turn 2 (turn 2 might be a better turn anyways)- like inceptors or eradicators can hit any target they want for 1 CP out of reserve. Turn 1 mobility is not worth basically having 1 less unit in your army. They are also a unit that your opponent can just assault to become invulnerable to shooting. The drop pod itself should just be removed from any calculation about it's value because it does literally nothing good for you on the table - other than put 1/2 units where you want them. We could change that. We could make the drop pod have some value...like maybe it gives out command points for units near it to use (call it supply drop). Or give it some better weapon options or the ability to detonate or something.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:
I haven't played 9th but I can't imagine that they aren't useful. Guaranteed Alpha Strike is good. At the very least they'd be good at protecting Grav Devs until you want to deploy them.

Grav has 30" range now. They do not need to be protected - you just deploy them on the table and shoot everyturn with 2 wound devestators.

I have seen people drop 2 units of 5 armed with multi meltas and a support character in termintor armour, but that was in 1250pts games and against a list that run two important vehicles, that had to die turn 1.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
It seems they are still overcosted.

What can we do to make these iconic units see play? I think dropping their points to say 45-50 would probably be the sweet spot for points. Or otherwise we need to grant them additional abilities.

I can think of a lot of cool tactical abilities they could grant but I want opinions from others. What are some ideas?

They do what they're designed to do and are fine as they are. You're paying a low price to cheese the limits of the deep strike rules, even on turn one, so you can contest or claim objectives or exploit any opening in an opponent's set up.

You're going to have to do a lot of work to prove they aren't taken and aren't fine.

They are straight 70 points of offense out of your army atm. They aren't taken. Lots of units that are strong can deep strike for free on turn 2 (turn 2 might be a better turn anyways)- like inceptors or eradicators can hit any target they want for 1 CP out of reserve. Turn 1 mobility is not worth basically having 1 less unit in your army. They are also a unit that your opponent can just assault to become invulnerable to shooting. The drop pod itself should just be removed from any calculation about it's value because it does literally nothing good for you on the table - other than put 1/2 units where you want them. We could change that. We could make the drop pod have some value...like maybe it gives out command points for units near it to use (call it supply drop). Or give it some better weapon options or the ability to detonate or something.

So you're not going to do any work, just an unsubstantiated ramble and the idea that putting units right where you want them in an edition where that matters for primary and secondary victory points is somehow worthless.


I actually like the idea of the enemy wasting turns going away from the battle to punch a drop pod. Tying enemies up with a 'worthless' unit is a win in its own right.

Allow primaris to use them.

They are not overcosted. If you want them cheap then they need to carry Troops only or something to that effect. People find plenty of reasons to use them, but like waltz said - if you want to see them more then Primaris need a version. Most people with all Primaris won't go out of their way to get a pod and old marines to use it.

Imagine though... Squads of eradicators jumping out of drop pods... I bet they'll be undercosted then

Or Deathwing Bladeguards as well... Stuff of alpha or beta strike nightmares.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Imagine though... Squads of eradicators jumping out of drop pods... I bet they'll be undercosted then

Or Deathwing Bladeguards as well... Stuff of alpha or beta strike nightmares.

*shudders*

Voss wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
It seems they are still overcosted.

What can we do to make these iconic units see play? I think dropping their points to say 45-50 would probably be the sweet spot for points. Or otherwise we need to grant them additional abilities.

I can think of a lot of cool tactical abilities they could grant but I want opinions from others. What are some ideas?

They do what they're designed to do and are fine as they are. You're paying a low price to cheese the limits of the deep strike rules, even on turn one, so you can contest or claim objectives or exploit any opening in an opponent's set up.

You're going to have to do a lot of work to prove they aren't taken and aren't fine.

They are straight 70 points of offense out of your army atm. They aren't taken. Lots of units that are strong can deep strike for free on turn 2 (turn 2 might be a better turn anyways)- like inceptors or eradicators can hit any target they want for 1 CP out of reserve. Turn 1 mobility is not worth basically having 1 less unit in your army. They are also a unit that your opponent can just assault to become invulnerable to shooting. The drop pod itself should just be removed from any calculation about it's value because it does literally nothing good for you on the table - other than put 1/2 units where you want them. We could change that. We could make the drop pod have some value...like maybe it gives out command points for units near it to use (call it supply drop). Or give it some better weapon options or the ability to detonate or something.

So you're not going to do any work, just an unsubstantiated ramble and the idea that putting units right where you want them in an edition where that matters for primary and secondary victory points is somehow worthless.


I actually like the idea of the enemy wasting turns going away from the battle to punch a drop pod. Tying enemies up with a 'worthless' unit is a win in its own right.

Why work would you like me to do? Drop pods don't hold things up - they protect enemy units because drop pod does no damage and enemy units can use it like a bunker. I'd rather the unit not exist is the issue. The value of a unit that does nothing is pretty close to nothing. Like I said it's only value is moving units around - which plenty of units get for the cost of FREE.It certainly isn't worth 70 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Imagine though... Squads of eradicators jumping out of drop pods... I bet they'll be undercosted then

Or Deathwing Bladeguards as well... Stuff of alpha or beta strike nightmares.

*shudders*

You can already do it with devestators for less points lol.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
It seems they are still overcosted.

What can we do to make these iconic units see play? I think dropping their points to say 45-50 would probably be the sweet spot for points. Or otherwise we need to grant them additional abilities.

I can think of a lot of cool tactical abilities they could grant but I want opinions from others. What are some ideas?

They do what they're designed to do and are fine as they are. You're paying a low price to cheese the limits of the deep strike rules, even on turn one, so you can contest or claim objectives or exploit any opening in an opponent's set up.

You're going to have to do a lot of work to prove they aren't taken and aren't fine.

They are straight 70 points of offense out of your army atm. They aren't taken. Lots of units that are strong can deep strike for free on turn 2 (turn 2 might be a better turn anyways)- like inceptors or eradicators can hit any target they want for 1 CP out of reserve. Turn 1 mobility is not worth basically having 1 less unit in your army. They are also a unit that your opponent can just assault to become invulnerable to shooting. The drop pod itself should just be removed from any calculation about it's value because it does literally nothing good for you on the table - other than put 1/2 units where you want them. We could change that. We could make the drop pod have some value...like maybe it gives out command points for units near it to use (call it supply drop). Or give it some better weapon options or the ability to detonate or something.

So you're not going to do any work, just an unsubstantiated ramble and the idea that putting units right where you want them in an edition where that matters for primary and secondary victory points is somehow worthless.


I actually like the idea of the enemy wasting turns going away from the battle to punch a drop pod. Tying enemies up with a 'worthless' unit is a win in its own right.

Why work would you like me to do? Drop pods don't hold things up - they protect enemy units because drop pod does no damage and enemy units can use it like a bunker. I'd rather the unit not exist is the issue. The value of a unit that does nothing is pretty close to nothing. Like I said it's only value is moving units around - which plenty of units get for the cost of FREE.It certainly isn't worth 70 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Imagine though... Squads of eradicators jumping out of drop pods... I bet they'll be undercosted then

Or Deathwing Bladeguards as well... Stuff of alpha or beta strike nightmares.

*shudders*

You can already do it with devestators for less points lol.

Eradicators are better though, and tougher, and more survivable strats.

Best thing you could do to improve drop pods?

Church'em up and give'em to Sisters.

 Xenomancers wrote:
You can already do it with devestators for less points lol.

38 points per model plus pod. Two sets is usually overkill so it's like almost 250 points for 10 shots with a -1 to hit. That's why some people opt for grav cannons.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
I haven't played 9th but I can't imagine that they aren't useful. Guaranteed Alpha Strike is good. At the very least they'd be good at protecting Grav Devs until you want to deploy them.

Grav has 30" range now. They do not need to be protected - you just deploy them on the table and shoot everyturn with 2 wound devestators.

If you know you're going first they don't need to be protected. But since you can't guarantee the opponent can't maneuver to shoot or take ignore LOS weapons, a Pod can still be a valuable investment. I've podded in Plasma Devs with a 36" range in order to guarantee alpha strike or get better firing angles.

Xeno is right and I have no idea why people are saying otherwise. Marines have a bunch of mobility even without their transport vehicles.

I haven't played 9th but I can't imagine that they aren't useful. Guaranteed Alpha Strike is good. At the very least they'd be good at protecting Grav Devs until you want to deploy them.

I think the problem is, while you're not wrong, other units in the marine book now do that better for less, but also do other things besides. It's a unit that, were GW to "invent" it now, would likely just be a strategem - "Drop Pod Deployment" etc.


And the only thing I can think of is to give them more capacity or go back to carrying Dreads ....

They use to do that right? Am I remembering wrong?

Who cares. They grant a completely unique ability that literally no other unit in the entire game gets to have and people still arent satisfied with em.

"My snowflake rules just arent special enough" is just old.

I run ravengaurd so its all about the alpha strike (hence "alphas"). Drop pod is a part of that and the drop pod troops bring a different flavor of alpha smackdown than the plasma intercepters or the melee guys do. So its fair it has a different price tag.

Drop pods are fine. They do what they are designed to do. You pay a premium for it because transports in general are exspensive. Further it breaks the rules for deep strikting turn one.

In a 2000 point game you can afford to take one to three of them before you start bleeding points hard.

The general conses of a good drop pod is threatening your opponents deployment. The later you use it the worse they needs to screen for it. If they do not screen lett lose.

Fill it with offensive units. 8 Multi melta is popular. 8 gravety guns are popular.

If you do not go heavy weapons 10 combi plasma. or 10 combi flamers are good. However, it is cheaper to buy jump packs in general. But then you loose the T1 threath.

the_scotsman wrote:
Who cares. They grant a completely unique ability that literally no other unit in the entire game gets to have and people still arent satisfied with em.

But its just never enough...

Tycho wrote:

I haven't played 9th but I can't imagine that they aren't useful. Guaranteed Alpha Strike is good. At the very least they'd be good at protecting Grav Devs until you want to deploy them.

I think the problem is, while you're not wrong, other units in the marine book now do that better for less, but also do other things besides.

So I'm curious, what are the other units that can do what a Drop Pod can?

the_scotsman wrote:
Who cares. They grant a completely unique ability that literally no other unit in the entire game gets to have and people still arent satisfied with em.

"My snowflake rules just arent special enough" is just old.

People are saying the same for literally every army. FFS, there's a thread about buffing Custode weapons over in Proposed Rules right now.

-----

It's telling that pods aren't used in any competitive list at the moment. The smaller board and long ranges of marine weapons are one factor, the large footprint of the pod is another, the cost another, the lack of ability to carry Primaris units another; it all adds up to a unit that would be excellent for other armies but that doesn't actually help the army that has it all that much.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Who cares. They grant a completely unique ability that literally no other unit in the entire game gets to have and people still arent satisfied with em.

"My snowflake rules just arent special enough" is just old.

People are saying the same for literally every army. FFS, there's a thread about buffing Custode weapons over in Proposed Rules right now.

-----

It's telling that pods aren't used in any competitive list at the moment. The smaller board and long ranges of marine weapons are one factor, the large footprint of the pod is another, the cost another, the lack of ability to carry Primaris units another; it all adds up to a unit that would be excellent for other armies but that doesn't actually help the army that has it all that much.

Huh? Lots of competitive lists use them. They just don't fit into every army since they're geared to kill rather than capture.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Tycho wrote:

I haven't played 9th but I can't imagine that they aren't useful. Guaranteed Alpha Strike is good. At the very least they'd be good at protecting Grav Devs until you want to deploy them.

I think the problem is, while you're not wrong, other units in the marine book now do that better for less, but also do other things besides.

So I'm curious, what are the other units that can do what a Drop Pod can?

Considering the amount of units Marines now have that can forward deploy, the fact that the board is now tiny but ranges on weapons have stayed the same .... quite a few.

I mean fine. Fair enough. There’s not literally a way to drop a unit out of the sky. It doesn’t change the fact that they have been, pretty much rendered obsolete.

With how fast games are desided it might be in the games interest that they remain a possabilaty, but that they are not competetive. I have 7 drop pods from 5th edition. Come winn or loose, but they turned into non games fast.

Longer games is more fun. I am leaving this thread to find greener pastures.

I think the issue is not with drop pods, but with most transporters in general.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Huh? Lots of competitive lists use them. They just don't fit into every army since they're geared to kill rather than capture.

I'm seeing a bunch of lists from last year that used a single pod for a unit of Devastators, but I'm not seeing many lists played post-Codex release anywhere. Where are you getting your info from?

I would guess that the decreased table size of 9th edition has played a factor in any decreased use of drop pods. Why bother bringing a drop pod when there is less open space to land it, especially behind enemy lines? Plus, you may have needed a drop pod in the past to get units into range quickly but with the decreased table size many units are in range on turn 1.