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Hey all,
Back here again, with a codex supplement. Still very WiP (needs unedited data sheets adding so that cross-referencing between codices in the middle of a game isn’t completely agonising), but hopefully decent. C+C appreciated.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/461670114765438986/826923962104545310/Document_184_praize_the_omnissiah_copy.pdf

There is no such thing as a Leman Russ Executioner or Leman Russ Vanquisher, you have to say that models cannot select the weapons, that way you also prevent Tank Commanders from taking them.

Why remove Commissars? Wouldn't they just be Enforcers?

Is access to Deathstrike missiles intentional?

Choosing whether to be a cult or a regiment should probably be the first rule listed or something since that changes everything.

Some Astra Militarum Stratagems can only be used on Astra Militarum units, but your rules remove that keyword.

Stratagems need to be reworded to be more in line with GW's Stratagems.

Chaotic Sorceries seems like a bad idea, bad things lie where points costs are lowered or ignored because of detachments or stratagems. Is it 5 points per model in the unit or 5 points for the unit regardless of size? Changing it from 5 to 6 points is meaningless unless it is per model.

Thanks for sharing your work. After skimming through it, I feel like I might be missing some context. Several rules don't seem to function in 9th edition, but other rules/statlines make me think it must be intended for use in 9th. Some things that jumped out at me:

* This is a minor thing, but why aren't aeronautica units allowed? Chaos has its own flyers and whatnot.

* You give some units the option to swap autoguns out for lasguns. Are those not still mechanically identical? Is this basically a fluff/modeling thing?

* The marks seem to basically be treated as this codex's version of chapter tactics, but the usefulness of these varies wildly. Am I missing a points cost somewhere that makes some of these way more expensive than others? +1 Toughness is pretty useful on everything in the army. +1 Attacks is mostly only useful for units that want to be in melee in the first place. +1 Leadership is really terrible compared to all the others.

*I'm not sure how the other marks are meant to function. The Mark of Tzeentch seems to be a 4+ invul save, but you've phrased it in such a way as to prevent some units from benefitting from it? Are you just trying to prevent vehicles from benefitting from it? The undivided mark creates a little bookkeeping, probably works better as a stratagem, and is similar to the +1 Attacks for Khorne. Assuming that "+1 to shooting" means +1 to the to-hit rolls of ranged attacks in the shooting phase.

* Covenant of Chaos on the psyker unit is confusing. You say they get +1 strength every time they fight, but then you also put in qualifiers for if they charged, were charged, etc. I'm guessing your intention was to give them +1 strength on turns that they charge/getcharged/get heroically intervened into? Also, "until the fight is resolved," doesn't quite make sense from a strict rules terminology perspective. You probably want to say something like, "in the fight phase," or "until the end of the phase."

* Your stratagem formatting is a little confusing. They seem to be intended to be similar to requisition stratagems. Does Armoured Traitor Regiment give a tank ace upgrade and leadership aura to a single tank? A tank ace to one tank and the aura to all tanks? Feels like you wanted this to be a chapter tactic instead of a stratagem?

* Similarly, how does Brutal Enforcement work? Do you use it when mustering your army? During deployment? And it's 1CP to impact all aspiring champions army-wide?

* Agree with vict about Chaotic Sorceries. Points adjustments like this can get tricky. And 1 CP for a 6 point discount per rogue psyker coven members seems like it could stack up fast. I assume. You don't seem to have given that unit a squad size, but I'm assuming each one can have at least 10 guys based on their special rules.

*Grenadier Units is pretty wonky. It's a stratagem that also costs points? And wearing carapace armor gives the model more Toughness than a sentinel? Is this meant to represent some sort of obliterator-esque mutation? Or is it a typo of some sort? I'm not really sure what you were trying to do here. Were you trying to make something similar to the trueborn/bloodbride upgrades from the drukhari book? If this is meant to be a hyper-mutated unit with toughness in excess of a gravis armor marine, then it should probably be a unique unit entry. If you're trying to make an upgraded version of a troop unit, tone down the benefits, probably ditch the points cost, and frame it similarly to other upgraded units like the veteran intercessor upgrade. Or again, you could probably just make a datasheet for guarsmen with 4+ armor saves and grenade launchers if that's what you're going for.

* The warlord traits have a lot of issues including, in some cases, straight up not working in 9th edition.

* Fanatical Convert is a little wonky because abilities that impact victory points can have varying levels of effect depending on what kind of mission you're playing. Consider turning this into a secondary objective instead of a warlord trait. You could probably also game this by taking a bunch of shrimpy MSU units and intentionally getting them killed.

* Iron-fisted Tyrant: "regroup" isn't a thing in 9th edition.

* Prophet of Doom: Reserve rolls aren't a thing in 9th edition.

* Artisan of Death: Not sure what you were going for with this one. "Engaged in combat," technically isn't a thing. Assuming you meant they're in engagement range, then I'm not sure when you'd want to trade all of your model's attacks for a single hit that has a 50/50 chance to wound a T3 model and then might not get through an armor save. I'm guessing a lot of this section was copied over from an older document and not revised?

* Blasphemous Iconoclast: What does "shoot through cover" mean?

* Soul-Scarred Terror: Isn't this functionally just a -1 to hit modifier? Or is this left over from when WS was an integer instead of an X+ value?

* You have "armies of tzeentch" listed twice. Based on the units and the purple font, pretty sure you forgot to change "Tzeentch" to "Slaanesh" after copy/pasting. ;D

Hope that didn't come across as overly negative. Good luck in your homebrewing endeavors!

Wyldhunt wrote:
Thanks for sharing your work. After skimming through it, I feel like I might be missing some context. Several rules don't seem to function in 9th edition, but other rules/statlines make me think it must be intended for use in 9th. Some things that jumped out at me:

* This is a minor thing, but why aren't aeronautica units allowed? Chaos has its own flyers and whatnot.

* You give some units the option to swap autoguns out for lasguns. Are those not still mechanically identical? Is this basically a fluff/modeling thing?

* The marks seem to basically be treated as this codex's version of chapter tactics, but the usefulness of these varies wildly. Am I missing a points cost somewhere that makes some of these way more expensive than others? +1 Toughness is pretty useful on everything in the army. +1 Attacks is mostly only useful for units that want to be in melee in the first place. +1 Leadership is really terrible compared to all the others.

*I'm not sure how the other marks are meant to function. The Mark of Tzeentch seems to be a 4+ invul save, but you've phrased it in such a way as to prevent some units from benefitting from it? Are you just trying to prevent vehicles from benefitting from it? The undivided mark creates a little bookkeeping, probably works better as a stratagem, and is similar to the +1 Attacks for Khorne. Assuming that "+1 to shooting" means +1 to the to-hit rolls of ranged attacks in the shooting phase.

* Covenant of Chaos on the psyker unit is confusing. You say they get +1 strength every time they fight, but then you also put in qualifiers for if they charged, were charged, etc. I'm guessing your intention was to give them +1 strength on turns that they charge/getcharged/get heroically intervened into? Also, "until the fight is resolved," doesn't quite make sense from a strict rules terminology perspective. You probably want to say something like, "in the fight phase," or "until the end of the phase."

* Your stratagem formatting is a little confusing. They seem to be intended to be similar to requisition stratagems. Does Armoured Traitor Regiment give a tank ace upgrade and leadership aura to a single tank? A tank ace to one tank and the aura to all tanks? Feels like you wanted this to be a chapter tactic instead of a stratagem?

* Similarly, how does Brutal Enforcement work? Do you use it when mustering your army? During deployment? And it's 1CP to impact all aspiring champions army-wide?

* Agree with vict about Chaotic Sorceries. Points adjustments like this can get tricky. And 1 CP for a 6 point discount per rogue psyker coven members seems like it could stack up fast. I assume. You don't seem to have given that unit a squad size, but I'm assuming each one can have at least 10 guys based on their special rules.

*Grenadier Units is pretty wonky. It's a stratagem that also costs points? And wearing carapace armor gives the model more Toughness than a sentinel? Is this meant to represent some sort of obliterator-esque mutation? Or is it a typo of some sort? I'm not really sure what you were trying to do here. Were you trying to make something similar to the trueborn/bloodbride upgrades from the drukhari book? If this is meant to be a hyper-mutated unit with toughness in excess of a gravis armor marine, then it should probably be a unique unit entry. If you're trying to make an upgraded version of a troop unit, tone down the benefits, probably ditch the points cost, and frame it similarly to other upgraded units like the veteran intercessor upgrade. Or again, you could probably just make a datasheet for guarsmen with 4+ armor saves and grenade launchers if that's what you're going for.

* The warlord traits have a lot of issues including, in some cases, straight up not working in 9th edition.

* Fanatical Convert is a little wonky because abilities that impact victory points can have varying levels of effect depending on what kind of mission you're playing. Consider turning this into a secondary objective instead of a warlord trait. You could probably also game this by taking a bunch of shrimpy MSU units and intentionally getting them killed.

* Iron-fisted Tyrant: "regroup" isn't a thing in 9th edition.

* Prophet of Doom: Reserve rolls aren't a thing in 9th edition.

* Artisan of Death: Not sure what you were going for with this one. "Engaged in combat," technically isn't a thing. Assuming you meant they're in engagement range, then I'm not sure when you'd want to trade all of your model's attacks for a single hit that has a 50/50 chance to wound a T3 model and then might not get through an armor save. I'm guessing a lot of this section was copied over from an older document and not revised?

* Blasphemous Iconoclast: What does "shoot through cover" mean?

* Soul-Scarred Terror: Isn't this functionally just a -1 to hit modifier? Or is this left over from when WS was an integer instead of an X+ value?

* You have "armies of tzeentch" listed twice. Based on the units and the purple font, pretty sure you forgot to change "Tzeentch" to "Slaanesh" after copy/pasting. ;D

Hope that didn't come across as overly negative. Good luck in your homebrewing endeavors!

First off- thanks for the feedback. While by no means new to 40k in terms of modelling and fluff, I most definitely am new to actually playing the game, so lots of feedback is good.

To address your points;

-Yes, chaos does have flyers, but I thought it fit better to leave them out; militias likely won’t have them and Guard regiments technically don’t either, although the latter’s more tenuous. Ultimately they don’t feel like R&H, or not to me; it’s like Krieg not having Sentinels.

-AFAIK they still play the same, it’s just for fluff.

-Marks- they were one of the earliest parts of the supplement and could likely do with going back over.

-You’re right there. I could certainly have worded it better.

-That wording’s ripped from the old IA books- same for the Warlord traits, actually, although they were adapted in places.

-Good point, there. I’ll go back to it and have a ponder.

-I- uh- uhhhhhh

-Another good point about Sorceries.

-Yeah, I was unsure about those. They were a bit tacked-on. I’ll probably remove them tbh.

-See above- a mixture of ripping from IA and an at best rudimentary understanding of the game itself did me no favours here

-ditto

-ditto

-ditto

-ditto

-Yeah, I spotted that one.

Ultimately, the entire thing’s something that I sat down and wrote on a whim as someone with very little knowledge of the rules- which in hindsight may not have been the smartest thing to do

Thank you for helping an idiot!

All good! There's no harm in pitching rules for the fun of it. Just make sure whatever rules you come up with will actually function in a game so your opponent can have fun letting you try out your creations!

For a simpler, streamlined version of what you seem to be going for, you might try something like this:

* Throw out the unique unit profiles for now. Just use the standard Astra Millitarum codex with the following changes.

* When mustering your army, you can declare that all AM detachments in your army are R&H detachments. All units in an R&H detachment lose the imperium keyword and gain the chaos keyword. Units with the regiment keyworder replace it with the "traitor regiment" keyword.

With those two changes alone, you open up everything from other chaos armies as allies. So if you want some slaaneshi daemons and marines leading your slaaneshi heretics, you can do that. No muss. No fuss. Minimal keyword interaction weirdness.

And then for specific "traitor regiments," maybe something like...

Tzeentch: Gain the Tzeentch keyword. Vehicles treat the AP of enemy ranged attacks as 1 worse than normal. So AP-2 is treated as AP-1 (because magic wards.) Psykers add +1 to psychic tests for every 10 non-vehicle models within 6" of them (using their chanting/ritual marks as a focus for their powers.)

Nurgle: Gain the Nurgle keyword. When a non-vehicle model dies within 1" of an enemy unit, roll a d6. On a 6+, all enemy units within 1" of that model suffer 1 mortal wound as their diseased ichor begins rotting the foe's flesh. Attacks against vehicles form more than 18" away suffer -1 to hit vehicles with this rule due to the cloud of flies obscuring their position

Slaanesh: +1 to attrition tests (they're enthralled by the noise and bloodshed rather terrified of it). Units may disembark from vehicles after the vehicle has moved (but not advanced), but may not charge after doing so.

Khorne: Non-vehicles receive +1 Strength. Vehicles improve their WS to 4+ unless it was already better (splatter kills!) When a unit dies within 6" of a unit with rule, add 1 to that unit's Attacks for the rest of the turn. (Doesn't stack with itself.)

Guerilla Cells: Units with this rule may add +1 to to-hit rolls on the first turn and on turns they arrive from reserves (ambush!) Units with this rule treat the round number as 1 higher when coming in from Strategic Reserves (so you can outflank in more places, basically.)

Daemon Thralls When a friendly daemon infantry, cavalry, or beast unit is wounded, you may roll a d6. On a 2+, the wound is resolved against a unit with this rule within 6" instead. Units with this rule ignore leadership modifiers when taking morale tests. (Daemon-worshippers gleefully serving as meat shields/sources of sustenance for their daemonic masters.)

Heretechal CyborgsNon-vehicle units improve their save characteristics by 1 and may ignore the penalty for firing heavy weapons after moving. Vehicles ignore dense and obscuring terrain. (Daemon-tech auspex arrays.)

So with a couple keyword swaps and some new regiment rules, you can field a bunch of fluffily-chaosy armies, and you can do so alongside your favorite CSM and daemons.

Is it this time again, where some former R&H player attempts to make something fun and workable or someone that just likes the concept of lost and the damned and realises that GW has done squat with it again?

Good, because those are my favourite times


Personally: the commisar removal (enforcers were a thing) as was already pointed out is kinda wierd.

I really like Wylds take on the marks though.