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2021/09/23 17:02:17
Subject: Future of Classic Space Marines in Pop Culture
It struck me while watching Angels of Death, the Blood Angels show on Warhammer TV, that even GW prefers to use the iconic depiction of Terminators, classic Space Marines, classic Dreadnaught, the old style bolter, beaky style helmets, etc. rather than use Primaris and the all the new models. In video games, it is likewise seen that there is a preference for the old style marines over the new. Where does that leave the future depiction of marines? Do you think there will continue to be a separation in pop culture and tabletop for years to come? Or do you think the Primaris ascetic will eventually take over?
Personally, I prefer the old but I am aware that may very well be because they were the marines I grew up with. What about all of you?
Active armies, still collecting and painting First and greatest love - Orks, Orks, and more Orks largest pile of shame, so many tanks unassembled most complete and painted beautiful models, couldn't resist the swarm will consume all
Armies in disrepair: nothing new since 5th edition oh how I want to revive, but mostly old fantasy demons and some glorious Soul Grinders in need of love
2021/09/23 17:14:52
Subject: Future of Classic Space Marines in Pop Culture
Grumblewartz wrote: I prefer the old but I am aware that may very well be because they were the marines I grew up with.
Ditto. I definitely prefer the Mk. VII helmet design (the "classic" look IMO), and old-school Terminators may be my favorite space marine models of all time.
2021/09/23 21:41:29
Subject: Future of Classic Space Marines in Pop Culture
Once it becomes more popluar, they will change the esthetic to the Primaris Marines. Once the look is somewhat familar on a larger scale they'll switch it. The new fans will be more accepting of the change as they have less invested in the classic look. They will use the heartstrings of existing players to springboard to success before dumping them on the side of the road. Abit cynical, I understand, but the masses are sheep and at the lowest common denominator. Just look at modern cinema for examples of this happening in other areas of long established characters and settings. GW will follow suit, as that is the path to the fastest payout.
Pew, Pew!
2021/09/23 23:26:16
Subject: Future of Classic Space Marines in Pop Culture
I'm actually surprised they kept the old aesthetic for Angels of Death given GW's push for Primaris going forward. Primaris are close enough to the classic style that your average consumer isn't even going to notice the difference either when they replace the current iteration.
As someone who joined the hobby after Primaris were introduced, I think the standard Primaris troops look astronomically cooler than the oldmarines. Intercessors and hellblasters feel like they're exactly what the designers for the classic sculpts wanted to evoke, but couldn't due to the budget and technology limitations of the time. Obviously, some people firmly believe the Primaris were originally intended as replacements for the classic sculpts, but whether or not that's actually true, it's certainly what should've happened.
However, there are a couple of big issues with the Primaris. First of all, introducing the Primaris as a new form of marine means that Primaris termies can't exist, which totally sucks. This doesn't just hurt the Primaris line; nowadays, all terminators look like they're being worn by an army of ten-year-olds who are comically dwarfed by the supposed "standard marine troops" around them. Additionally, the redemptor dread totally misses the coolest part of the original dreadnought profile and is in desperate need of a redesign, and all the Primaris vehicles look like bumper cars. If the Primaris were a redesign like they should have been, we could've just gotten larger, more detailed land raiders and rhinos instead, the objectively better decision. Reducing GKs and CSMs to a constant state of 5'11'' was also a mistake, and the subtle half-measures GW is trying to use as a fix don't really work.
So yeah, the Primaris do look better to me than the MK VII marines, but manage to still be not as cool as them because of everything they sacrificed to do so.
Seeing all of the Old World/Warhammer Fantasy media that is still out there years after Age of Sigmar took its place, I could see them keeping to the classic marine designs for their media representation for a while.
2021/09/24 09:31:18
Subject: Future of Classic Space Marines in Pop Culture
Andilus Greatsword wrote: I'm actually surprised they kept the old aesthetic for Angels of Death given GW's push for Primaris going forward. Primaris are close enough to the classic style that your average consumer isn't even going to notice the difference either when they replace the current iteration.
Well it would be kinda obvious the moment you put regular human nearby. 2 head taller vs 1 head taller.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2021/09/24 09:50:55
Subject: Future of Classic Space Marines in Pop Culture
I was also surprised to see the Angels of Death Marines weren’t Primaris. I suppose based on the timeline of the show if there is a season two we might see the characters cross the Rubicon.
They may well do Primaris scale old Marines in the future and just say all Marines are Primaris. Who knows? I just spend money and roll dice
2021/09/24 10:28:11
Subject: Future of Classic Space Marines in Pop Culture
Andilus Greatsword wrote: I'm actually surprised they kept the old aesthetic for Angels of Death given GW's push for Primaris going forward. Primaris are close enough to the classic style that your average consumer isn't even going to notice the difference either when they replace the current iteration.
Well it would be kinda obvious the moment you put regular human nearby. 2 head taller vs 1 head taller.
except most people who don't game, when they see s space marine are proably seeing PR artwork not the minis.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/24 10:28:27
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2021/09/24 15:15:32
Subject: Future of Classic Space Marines in Pop Culture
Crimson wrote: A difference between Primaris and old school marines is not something most people who don’t actually play 40K know or care about.
I completely agree...but I find it perplexing that GW's own production stuck with the classic marines. Why would they produce a series using the old style marines if they were phasing them out?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
Flipsiders wrote: As someone who joined the hobby after Primaris were introduced, I think the standard Primaris troops look astronomically cooler than the oldmarines. Intercessors and hellblasters feel like they're exactly what the designers for the classic sculpts wanted to evoke, but couldn't due to the budget and technology limitations of the time. Obviously, some people firmly believe the Primaris were originally intended as replacements for the classic sculpts, but whether or not that's actually true, it's certainly what should've happened.
However, there are a couple of big issues with the Primaris. First of all, introducing the Primaris as a new form of marine means that Primaris termies can't exist, which totally sucks. This doesn't just hurt the Primaris line; nowadays, all terminators look like they're being worn by an army of ten-year-olds who are comically dwarfed by the supposed "standard marine troops" around them. Additionally, the redemptor dread totally misses the coolest part of the original dreadnought profile and is in desperate need of a redesign, and all the Primaris vehicles look like bumper cars. If the Primaris were a redesign like they should have been, we could've just gotten larger, more detailed land raiders and rhinos instead, the objectively better decision. Reducing GKs and CSMs to a constant state of 5'11'' was also a mistake, and the subtle half-measures GW is trying to use as a fix don't really work.
So yeah, the Primaris do look better to me than the MK VII marines, but manage to still be not as cool as them because of everything they sacrificed to do so.
That's what I suspected...it's my bias as someone who grew up with the classic marines that makes me favor them. I wonder if they will blend the aesthetic in time? Add the iconic beaky helmet and other little bits to the primaris. Perhaps just make larger terminators and call them Primaris Terminators.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
steelhead177th wrote: Once it becomes more popluar, they will change the esthetic to the Primaris Marines. Once the look is somewhat familar on a larger scale they'll switch it. The new fans will be more accepting of the change as they have less invested in the classic look. They will use the heartstrings of existing players to springboard to success before dumping them on the side of the road. Abit cynical, I understand, but the masses are sheep and at the lowest common denominator. Just look at modern cinema for examples of this happening in other areas of long established characters and settings. GW will follow suit, as that is the path to the fastest payout.
I thought that originally too. But, if they keep showing the classic marines in their shows, artwork, video games, etc. it seems to me that they aren't really gearing up for a shift. Perhaps, they are just playing a much longer game?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/24 15:21:27
Active armies, still collecting and painting First and greatest love - Orks, Orks, and more Orks largest pile of shame, so many tanks unassembled most complete and painted beautiful models, couldn't resist the swarm will consume all
Armies in disrepair: nothing new since 5th edition oh how I want to revive, but mostly old fantasy demons and some glorious Soul Grinders in need of love
2021/09/24 15:41:50
Subject: Future of Classic Space Marines in Pop Culture
The basic armour of the Primaris is really cool, but I have to say, the classing 'angry face' space marine helmet feels much more evocative of the setting and what space marines are supposed to be than the newer helmets. Of course, that's just me, many will disagree with that!
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
I'm of the opinion that Primaris Space Marines were just an excuse to make "true scale" space marine models without invalidating the old ones, and then they hamfisted in some new fluff to give an arbitrary difference. GW is still probably aware that the classic space marine lore is more appealing to the bulk of the fanbase and they don't need to worry about lack of scale there.
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Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
I still think it was to be a great culling and reset with 8th. The originally planned time jump, the Primaris, their reception by Oldstartes in the initial fiction that came with 8th and the Ynarri storyline which went nowhere all point that way to me.
The extremely hostile reaction to blowing up the Old World probably stayed their hand.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
2021/09/24 18:15:14
Subject: Future of Classic Space Marines in Pop Culture
I'll take the MKIII/IV Plastics over the Primaris ones any day. Looking forward to the new 30k box and they'll integrate very well into my 30k/M38 Salamanders.
And I say this as someone who has 5k pts of Primaris.
2021/09/24 19:07:57
Subject: Future of Classic Space Marines in Pop Culture
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Eldarain wrote: I still think it was to be a great culling and reset with 8th. The originally planned time jump, the Primaris, their reception by Oldstartes in the initial fiction that came with 8th and the Ynarri storyline which went nowhere all point that way to me.
The extremely hostile reaction to blowing up the Old World probably stayed their hand.
I agree. I think they wanted to squat the existing lineup, but ended up not due to the hostile reaction from their disastrous desecration of WHFB. I really hope they backpedal someday and get rid of this stupid AOS crap and/or just make it separate from WHFB.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Eldarain wrote: I still think it was to be a great culling and reset with 8th. The originally planned time jump, the Primaris, their reception by Oldstartes in the initial fiction that came with 8th and the Ynarri storyline which went nowhere all point that way to me.
The extremely hostile reaction to blowing up the Old World probably stayed their hand.
I agree. I think they wanted to squat the existing lineup, but ended up not due to the hostile reaction from their disastrous desecration of WHFB. I really hope they backpedal someday and get rid of this stupid AOS crap and/or just make it separate from WHFB.
you mean like publish a WFB game, seperate from AOS? an intreasting idea... they could call it, I dunno "the old world"
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2021/09/24 19:48:04
Subject: Future of Classic Space Marines in Pop Culture
Eldarain wrote: I still think it was to be a great culling and reset with 8th. The originally planned time jump, the Primaris, their reception by Oldstartes in the initial fiction that came with 8th and the Ynarri storyline which went nowhere all point that way to me.
The extremely hostile reaction to blowing up the Old World probably stayed their hand.
I agree. I think they wanted to squat the existing lineup, but ended up not due to the hostile reaction from their disastrous desecration of WHFB. I really hope they backpedal someday and get rid of this stupid AOS crap and/or just make it separate from WHFB.
you mean like publish a WFB game, seperate from AOS? an intreasting idea... they could call it, I dunno "the old world"
Have I missed an announcement? Are you saying that is a thing they are doing?
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Eldarain wrote: I still think it was to be a great culling and reset with 8th. The originally planned time jump, the Primaris, their reception by Oldstartes in the initial fiction that came with 8th and the Ynarri storyline which went nowhere all point that way to me.
The extremely hostile reaction to blowing up the Old World probably stayed their hand.
I agree. I think they wanted to squat the existing lineup, but ended up not due to the hostile reaction from their disastrous desecration of WHFB. I really hope they backpedal someday and get rid of this stupid AOS crap and/or just make it separate from WHFB.
you mean like publish a WFB game, seperate from AOS? an intreasting idea... they could call it, I dunno "the old world"
Have I missed an announcement? Are you saying that is a thing they are doing?
Yeah, they're literally making that. Square bases and everything.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Well cool. Hopefully my Ogres can get used again and we can go back to better times.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Andilus Greatsword wrote: I'm actually surprised they kept the old aesthetic for Angels of Death given GW's push for Primaris going forward. Primaris are close enough to the classic style that your average consumer isn't even going to notice the difference either when they replace the current iteration.
without going into spoilers too much, Angels of Death is explicitly set during the initial opening of the Great Rift and thus before any primaris. So, logically enough, none of them are primaris.
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2021/09/26 18:34:24
Subject: Re:Future of Classic Space Marines in Pop Culture
I like the old marines because they fit with the older ideas about the setting. The tacticool look of Primaris ends up moving the setting subtly towards a more generic superhero kind of aesthetic as opposed to the medieval knight-monks in space that they were originally intended to be, in fitting with the original satire that 40k was supposed to be.
Incidentally I think GW has realized this to a certain extent, as we've seen a number of more properly gothic primaris releases since 9th, which is a good thing.
2021/09/27 01:30:24
Subject: Future of Classic Space Marines in Pop Culture
yukishiro1 wrote: I like the old marines because they fit with the older ideas about the setting. The tacticool look of Primaris ends up moving the setting subtly towards a more generic superhero kind of aesthetic as opposed to the medieval knight-monks in space that they were originally intended to be, in fitting with the original satire that 40k was supposed to be.
Incidentally I think GW has realized this to a certain extent, as we've seen a number of more properly gothic primaris releases since 9th, which is a good thing.
I KNOW MAN THESE GUYS ARE SOOO TACTICOOL!
I mean seriously, can we retire the "der hur hur tacticool" complaint?it applies maybe to vanguard marines sure but beyond that? I don't see it
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/27 01:30:55
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two