Adeptus Custodes 10th Edition Tactics: From Golden Light

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**ZergSmasher**

Not sure the minor decrease makes Vertus Praetors any good still, but maybe 2 plus a Dawneagle SC could be a nice utility unit?

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

I'm too salty over 10th to post positively about this, but I'm just going to say I want multiple captains of a single type back. Are we the only ones that get this type of restriction in 10th?

**Lord Clinto**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I'm too salty over 10th to post positively about this, but I'm just going to say I want multiple captains of a single type back. Are we the only ones that get this type of restriction in 10th?

I thought, since the start of 10th, Custodes didn't have any restrictions on HQ's other than "Epic Hero" and the "rule of 3"; I'm not seeing an error message in the App with taking more than 1.

**Scoundrel80**

So, i've been playing full infantry for a long time now. I found that the full 6 man allarus unit with a captain + ceaseless hunter is completely bonkers. Back then I could often only really get 4 blobs total if I wanted the calidus for objectives and reasonable character support.

So for the last many months ive been building around that block. I recently ended up playing landraider plus 3 blobs just to mix things up.

But now, with the points decreases ive been able to construct I five-blob build by cutting one termie for twin 5mans plus a captain in one unit making it 6/5 models. I haven't tried it yet, and I will probably miss the big seven man termie blob, but on the other hand: having two such units at my disposal seems so incredible strong. Honestly, these guys just dont die and their shooting is completely bonkers. Being able to resurrect two alarus with the Strat seems busted (actually now I want to run 3x4 instead).

Any ways, here's my latest list:

Spoiler:

**JNAProductions**

Are the axes on the Allarus because that's what you have built?
Because Spears are almost always better, if I recall correctly.

Edit: Best case scenario is a T14 model, like a Stompa (2+/6++).

Axe
4 attacks
8/3 hits
40/27 wounds
40/81 failed saves
120/81 or 40/27 damage, which is 1.48 damage per Allarus

Spear
5 attacks
25/6 hits
275/216 wounds
275/432 failed saves
275/216 damage, which is 1.27 damage per Allarus

So slightly better, but how many T14 models even exist?
Against a T10-13 model who has Invuln over armor... (We'll assume a 4++)

Axes
4 attacks
8/3 hits
40/27 wounds
20/27 failed saves
60/27 or 20/9 damage, which is 2.22 damage per Allarus

Spears
5 attacks
25/6 hits
125/54 wounds
125/108 failed saves
125/54 damage, which is 2.31 damage per Allarus

And against a T4 W3 3+ target...

Axes
4 attacks
8/3 hits
40/18 or 20/9 wounds
10/9 failed saves, which is 1.11 dead models per Allarus

Spears
5 attacks
25/6 hits
50/18 or 25/9 wounds
50/27 failed saves, which is .93 dead models per Allarus

And how many W3 T4 models are there? Most tend to be T5+ and W3, and or T4 and W2.

**StudentOfEtherium**

plastic melta spear is finally real... but only for the captain, it seems. not really sure what meaningful impact that's going to have on the army, since it's just one, and meltas are already the same strength as axes

**Karol**

Is it just me, or does the new release feel less like a new release and more like a gear option for a regular captin? I would be suprised, if a lot of custodes players didn't just , assuming the rules are good, just take a warden leader slap a melta on the guardian spear and give him a custodes guardian shield and have the character without the need to buy a gigantic box.

**StudentOfEtherium**

my assumption is that because he has the shield, this shield captain is going to have his own distinct datasheet from the normal one (like the new necron overlord)... but yeah even at that point, all it would take is cutting up a melta barrel to make my own

i'm not too annoyed with this, tho. aside from the issues with forgeworld, the army is in a fine place, so i'm not shocked GW didn't give us more this time

**Scoundrel80**

All have Spears only always. I messed it up in bs by pressume add a Dude. Didnt see that the dudes where with axes..

**cuda1179**

Up until now any Custode was limited to: 1. Spear/ax or 2. Sword and shield. (I'm still a little salty they removed the option of Sword and knife from Custodian Guard. It made for a slightly cheaper unit with more attacks)

Will this new model reverse that trend so that spear/shield is a thing in general? If so, would we take it?

As for further wishlisting, I'd love a Custodes accessory sprue like the Space Marines have for their chapters. Parts for blinging out our leaders to tell them apart from our normies.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

The sculpt alone makes it look like a stand out model. The fact that GW called it a Shield Captain, means it's not a squad type unit.

I honestly can't figure out why someone would want to take an axe, with a melta, and a shield. That's slightly over board on a single unit, yeah? I mean the spear makes it a generalist.

At this point all I can hope for is they give it the Blade Champion's attack profiles, where it gets a sweep or a cleave type deal. 1 Melta shot is not going to achieve anything, even with a shield, in most games.

**StudentOfEtherium**

I doubt guard with spears will be an option. most spear options take both hands, with only one (maybe two) having a spear carried in one hand, thus allowing for also carrying a shield. but, fittingly, the shield captain option is one of the kits with that option

**StudentOfEtherium**

i just read goonhammer's review of the codex and i don't know what to say other than 😬

**Apple fox**

The book is awful, can’t just fix some of it with points.
Been debating of asking for a refund on my stuff, because I am just the most unlucky person and thought I would go in on a big project I been looking at for years.

**PenitentJake**

Apple fox wrote:
The book is awful, can’t just fix some of it with points.
Been debating of asking for a refund on my stuff, because I am just the most unlucky person and thought I would go in on a big project I been looking at for years.

That's why I never buy anything til I read the Goonhammer review- though when it's a box full of models, I'll sometimes bend; I bought the Tau box without waiting for the review, but in that case I knew whether the dex sucked or not the models were worth what I paid for the box.

Edit: I like the Null Maiden detachment, and I'll wait til Tuesday to read the Crusade rules to see if there is more SoS content for Crusade than there was in 9th.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

I literally gave all my golden models to my neighbors kid who still plays 9th. He's super happy. Now I feel bad because he's about to learn 10th.

**ZergSmasher**

Yeah I was very dismayed when I read Goonhammer's review of the new book. I don't think the faction is dead but I also don't see them winning events like, ever, unless they get some buffs. I'm also sad to see the jetbikes still suck, barring an unexpected points drop in the next balance dataslate. At least the axes on Wardens/Allarus are less garbage than before, eh?

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

I think NEVER winning is a stretch, I think the faction is STILL powerful, its just a lot higher skill barrier.

**Karol**

The army dropped to one of the worse in the game, when all it lost was just the Devastating wound protection. It still had the unchanged heroes with all the old rules, old katas, old stratagems. And it dropped hard. Now it lost the protection, the characters got nerfed, the core army rules got nerfed, and point costs wise no army since the start of 10th ended cheaper, then it was in the index. But who knows maybe custodes will be different.

I played a slow elite melee army, with no range options, in both 8th and 9th. They do not work in general. And they don't work double, if they don't have a ton of extra rules to give them some sort of an edge. The whole talk about "playing smart" and using terrain stops being an argument, when your opponent knows that A you are going to be using terrain B there exists 3" away deep strike C they also play smart.

Custodes under the rules in the new codex are the army to play vs someone who bought a terminator DW army and wants to slug it off in the middle of the board ignoring objectives etc.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

I bet you 1000 imaginary dollars that we stay above 45% WR for the majority of 10th.

Can we at least let this shake out? This is me talking. Fezz (sky is falling) bullgryn. It's going to be fine.

**Lord Clinto**

My biggest gripe about the codex is that the Ven Contemptor Dread still only has the two weapons loadouts.

The only Contemptor you can buy atm is the plastic HH model with ~15 different weapons...wtf GW!!!!!!

**cuda1179**

Lord Clinto wrote:
My biggest gripe about the codex is that the Ven Contemptor Dread still only has the two weapons loadouts.

The only Contemptor you can buy atm is the plastic HH model with ~15 different weapons...wtf GW!!!!!!

I second this. It's like the game developers forgot the old kit is OOP and the new one exists. Now, I can understand not including EVERY weapon in the kit, like vulkite stuff, but would it have unbalanced Custodes to give the dreadnought a havok launcher on top?

**Karol**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I bet you 1000 imaginary dollars that we stay above 45% WR for the majority of 10th.

Can we at least let this shake out? This is me talking. Fezz (sky is falling) bullgryn. It's going to be fine.

That is a big gamble, because the last time the same army lost just the dev wounds defence it droped under 40% on certain weeks. Now it lost that and everything else. There are match ups where the custodes player would requier a 3ed party to set up terrain and put all of it in to their half of the table.

And it is not going to be fine. Ad Mecha were suppose to get fine. They didn't. DA played as an actual DA army and not a space marine with Azrael, does not work. If custodes were to get fixed, they would have to wait in line to be fixed.

Now, I can understand not including EVERY weapon in the kit, like vulkite stuff, but would it have unbalanced Custodes to give the dreadnought a havok launcher on top?

One of GW design goals is for models to not be double dipping or double dipping as little as it is possible. That is why Contemptors, and all the other relic tanks, only exist in lore, but not in game terms. Want a Siccarian? You have to play HH. And sometimes it is funny, because lets say assasins don't exist everywhere. On top of that because of the straind relations between FW and GW design team, both seem to ignore what the other side is doing.

Also why vulkite be so odd of an option. Marines get vulkite pistols etc. If anything armies like custodes, or GK, should have access to the crazy gear not even inquisition has access to. Tassaract vault boxes, rare grenades, scaners, teleport and anti teleport devices etc. Meanwhile SoS can't remember how to use two bolt pistols. And custodes had to achive the rank of captin to be able to use a spear and a shield.

**Lord Clinto**

Karol wrote:

One of GW design goals is for models to not be double dipping or double dipping as little as it is possible. That is why Contemptors, and all the other relic tanks, only exist in lore, but not in game terms. Want a Siccarian? You have to play HH. And sometimes it is funny, because lets say assasins don't exist everywhere. On top of that because of the straind relations between FW and GW design team, both seem to ignore what the other side is doing.

Also why vulkite be so odd of an option. Marines get vulkite pistols etc. If anything armies like custodes, or GK, should have access to the crazy gear not even inquisition has access to. Tassaract vault boxes, rare grenades, scaners, teleport and anti teleport devices etc. Meanwhile SoS can't remember how to use two bolt pistols. And custodes had to achive the rank of captin to be able to use a spear and a shield.

The only problem with this argument is that IK and Custodes were both specifically granted use of their HH models by GW. And...Custodes still have the Venerable Contemptor Dreadnought Dataslate in their Index/Codex, where as the Space Marine versions were relegated to legacy status.

**Karol**

yeah. And it is the custodes the contemptor model that they don't even sell anymore. I mean multiple armies have access to FW stuff. It is less then it was in the past, especialy with every new codex and some faction, do get preferential treatment. But the FW options custodes get are practicaly unplayable. The jetbikes and the terminators not only cost more then the codex versions, but they also have worse rules. The Custodes Contemptors, Telamons are so bad, that no one uses them. There is also the flyer, which costs like a month plus of my salary. No one uses that thing. Saggitarians, used in 9th (just like the dreads) dead option in 10th. Which kind of a boils down the FW options to the jump dudes (which only work because of free rapid ingress, and even then most armies can't fit them in) and the calladius (or more specific 2, because running one is too swingy). The last two options are at playable, they general are, or rather were, not played in good armies. So yeach technicly Custodes, have a FW model line, but when one compares to how many of those are actually used, it isn't really that much. And I assuming recasts, because the cost of 2 calladius or 6-9 jump boys is brutal.

If custodes could/want to take a contemptor they wouldn't take one with a short range nerfed MM or AC on a 6"M platform. They would want a grav weapon or a twin lascanon. Or the option to double up the weapons.

**ccs**

Karol wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I bet you 1000 imaginary dollars that we stay above 45% WR for the majority of 10th.

Can we at least let this shake out? This is me talking. Fezz (sky is falling) bullgryn. It's going to be fine.

That is a big gamble, because the last time the same army lost just the dev wounds defence it droped under 40% on certain weeks. Now it lost that and everything else. There are match ups where the custodes player would requier a 3ed party to set up terrain and put all of it in to their half of the table.

And it is not going to be fine. Ad Mecha were suppose to get fine. They didn't. DA played as an actual DA army and not a space marine with Azrael, does not work. If custodes were to get fixed, they would have to wait in line to be fixed.

Now, I can understand not including EVERY weapon in the kit, like vulkite stuff, but would it have unbalanced Custodes to give the dreadnought a havok launcher on top?

One of GW design goals is for models to not be double dipping or double dipping as little as it is possible. That is why Contemptors, and all the other relic tanks, only exist in lore, but not in game terms. Want a Siccarian? You have to play HH.

Or you can just use the 10e 40k rules GWs provided you.... https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/baFrYBIDRdI1aNqi.pdf

**Karol**

We had this talk before. And again I will point out at the fact that legends are in fact NOT accepted to be played in large areas of the world. This isn't a "my toxic meta" thing, this is not even a Poland or eastern euro thing, it is a world wide thing. Now, you have the ability to play with legends. Great for you, but enough of you, I would say the most of us, do not have that option. But this the whole the same "is matched played" argument over again. I had this enough of times to know how it goes.

**Dysartes**

Outside of tournaments, or at least games where you have specifically agreed to use tournament rules? Yes, you do have the right to use your Legends models.

And if your opponent backs out of the game because you're using a model GW says you can, with the rules they say, in a format they say you can - i.e., any game outside of a tournament - you know which donkey-caves to avoid playing casually in the future.

**Karol**

And yet it is somehow a world wide thing. Even GW itself does everything to stop people/not know about legends, as they don't put the rules in their books, on their app and you litteraly have to know that the legends rules exist to try to find them on their site.

Again if you have the luck to play with legends, then you are probably one of those people who 2-3 editions ago could ignore the rule of 3, invent rules on the go etc But again this isn't the norm.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

Name 3 Legends Custodes Units. I can't think of two.