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In every book, he's just "My aide...Gunner Jurgen." He's never given him a commendation or a reward for the 100+ years of service correct?

1. I know Commissars aren't IG officers, and cannot promote, he can put forward a request for a award, or something. I know Gaunt has done it, and so has Rhaine. So does Cain really hate Jurgen or what?
2. Also, Vail can literally make him a literal agent of the ordos, giving him a salary and a title above that of Cain himself. So it's not like it's impossible to reward him for all the good he's done, literally everyone in the books, over several hundred years, is it? I mean, at least make him a SGT and bump his salary a bit to give him a bit more to buy porno slates with?

Nope. Jurgen remains in the rank of Gunner.

This may be more Vail’s doing, to keep the smelly chap obscure and secret, given his unique talents.

Gunner 1st Class, please

Jurgen likes the perks of the position. With his borrowed authority he can requisition what he likes, and boss more people around than you might expect if he wants. What use is a bit of extra credit, when you always get first choice of digs, and can intimidate the Munitorum fldrones I to giving you the cream of whatever is available “for the Lord Commisar”.

He is also doggedly loyal to Cain, the Emperor and the Guard as an organisation, so he doesn’t seek any advancement on his own, so nothing really pushing to advance anywhere. Also he’s fictional, so easy to avoid inconvenient things such as promotion problems

Also, Cain wouldn’t want to promote him, and his may lose his most valuable asset.

It’s Jurgen that always finds the best digs, the best food, anything else Cain might want. He’s also so literal minded and knowledgeable about the correct protocols, he keeps most annoying things and persons out of Cain’s hair.

At this point it is likely that nobody would dare promote him without asking Cain first. Or any of the people in question think that if he deserved it surely Cain would have recommended him.

All of above, and

1) Jurgen is in no way leadership material, and promotion means leadership positions.
2) While an Inquisitor as Vail may need an sargent to keep her acrolytes in order Cain has no acrolytes except for Jurgen. There is no need for a promotion.
3) Any advantages of a promotion to NCO rank are far less than the advantages Jurgen have from being the assistant to a Commissar (later a Hero of the Imperium)

Spoken as someone who has served, you don't keep a person as a private because they don't have the potential, you promote them to teach them how to be a leader. It doesn't matter that he's by himself. Every high ranking official needs a slightly lower ranking subaltern to assuage and mollify the other high ranking ankle biters that vie for their attention. He already does this. Cain remarks on it constantly. All I'm saying is he seems never to have been given a single reward for being easily one of the best troopers in the entire Guard.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Spoken as someone who has served, you don't keep a person as a private because they don't have the potential, you promote them to teach them how to be a leader. It doesn't matter that he's by himself. Every high ranking official needs a slightly lower ranking subaltern to assuage and mollify the other high ranking ankle biters that vie for their attention. He already does this. Cain remarks on it constantly. All I'm saying is he seems never to have been given a single reward for being easily one of the best troopers in the entire Guard.

Speaking as someone still serving, you absolutely do. People overpromoted into leadership roles they’re not capable of are the worst. Nothing destroys the effectiveness or moral of a unit faster. Just because someone is great at their current role doesn’t mean they’ll necessarily be a good fit higher up, if they’ve not got the CLM skills.

In Jurgen’s case though as Cain’s aide he gets pretty much all the privileges of being a senior commissar’s deputy, without any of the responsibility that would come with deputising for one. Seems a pretty cushy life as far as guard roles go, with no one other than Cain to order him about. He’s got a much better life than if he were merely one of many Cpls and probably an inept one at that.

But as people have said though, it’s not about fairness, it’s about him being where Inquisitor Vail can find him without him being too obvious to her peers.

And we have responded that Jurgen has access to anything he wants using Cain’s authority and Cain explicitly mentions slipping porno slates and other tidbits of Jurgen’s favour in his direction.

From the grunt’s point of view? I suspect Jurgen has it super easy.

His immediate superior, Commissar Cain, exists outside the chain of command, but can on a literal whim excuse Jurgen from a given order by countermanding it very specifically.

Cain also…..largely leaves Jurgen to his own devices. Loose orders and requests, and so far as the novels show? Cain has never reprimanded Jurgen on any count. At all. Ever ever.

Looking at Prawn Slates? Cain knows, doesn’t care. Taking liberties with the supplies? Cain doesn’t care. But, we can reasonably infer that anyone, absolutely anyone, even the Lord Commander, calling Jurgen on his, erm…’standards’ knows they risk the ire of the celebrated Commissar Cain, Hero of the Imperium. Mr Teflon.

Plus it’s made abundantly that Cain is perfectly happy with Jurgen exactly as he is. To the point of arranging if not outright authorising Rejevunaut treatments for him.

 Flinty wrote:
And we have responded that Jurgen has access to anything he wants using Cain’s authority and Cain explicitly mentions slipping porno slates and other tidbits of Jurgen’s favour in his direction.

Yup. While there's no mention of extravagant perks, the novels make it pretty clear that Cain does look after Jurgen. He doesn't mistreat Jurgen, and very much appreciates the man's talents (while putting up with the personality drawbacks that are connected to his status as a null). If Jurgen wanted a promotion, Cain would probably arrange for one. But there's no real reason for it, as Jurgen's connection with a popular political officer means that Jurgen probably has people falling all over themselves (officially, at least) to assist when he asks for things.

If Cain had been inclined to return Jurgen to regular duty, then a promotion would be expected. But since Cain never had any intention of doing so - even before he knew what Jurgen was - there's no real point in doing so. It's also not Vail's doing. Cain and Jurgen worked together on multiple campaigns before Cain met Vail, and she became aware of Jurgen. So it's just the arrangement that Cain and Jurgen have had over the decades.

outside of increased responsaiblities the biggest reason to promote someone in a modern military is increased pay and privilages. things that the guard may, to avoid the problem of people being promoted past their competance level, detach from rank. and instead attach to years in service (given guard duty seems to be something of a near life long commitment it makes sense to tie things like pay etc to years in service)

We should always be careful about assuming a military in a sci-fi setting functions exactly like a modern military. especially when they've had 38000 years to say "ya know, this partiuclar idea is dumb* let's do something differant"




*even if it isn't nesscarily that dumb

Not forcing Jurgen to wash his socks must surely be a reward in and of itself?

A hundred other little everyday perks to give Jurgen smooth sailing under the Commissar's wings is implied by the novels, as already covered by Flinty.

Inquisitor Amberley Vail having had the strategic asset of null known as Jurgen undergo rejuvenat treatments could be seen as a reward, but not from Commissar Cain.

So here is my thinking today in re reading "The Traitor's Hand". Cain could conceivably, at ANY time, die horribly, or be removed from office by burecratic red tape, or be found out as a wanton coward. Then Amberly's prize Null is lost as he gets shuffled back into the regular line, because literally no one else but Cain know's he's a blank. Not even he knows it. (Is that correct? He's ignorant of his own condition?)

Point being, it's an exceedingly risky and daft way to keep a rare and valuable weapon safe. Sort of like handing a untouched Necron Sphere over to a Tech Priest, and saying, all right, now don't let anyone touch it!

Have faith, fellow Imperial subject! The Emperor protects. Never tell us the worldly odds.

But yes, the arrangement is bonkers. And Jurgen himself is unaware of being a blank. Welcome to fictionland. Though it has to be said that silly and riskful arrangements sometimes do show up in the history of real world intelligence services, so it's not unrealistic just because it is stupid. Reality is not disproven by its dysfunctionalities, and so the same applies to fiction.

In a world so heavily steeped in mysticism, Inquisitor Vail might simply trust in the Emperor's guiding hand here. And maybe a tracking chip of sorts has been installed in Jurgen during all those rejuvenat treatments, to retrieve the asset should Commissar Cain die.

Cheers

Yeah, the Inquisition is not meant to be a paragon of efficiency. They are a paranoid, secretive organisation that constantly cuts off their own nose to spite the face. Being overly secretive to "protect" a valuable asset from rivals is entirely on-brand.

I'm not surprised Jurgen himself doesn't know. I don't think blanks are common knowledge in the Imperium.

I believe that both Vail and Cain acknowledge the contradiction of keeping Jurgen safe in a frontline Guard posting. It’s possible that the local Munitorum drones have standing orders from Vail about what to do with Jurgen in the event of cain’s demise.

Equally, this is a comedy series where the DM has standing orders not to believe reports of Cain’s death, to the point where he is on the active duty list while being buried.

I'm not pointing out the unsafe nature of the location or the profession, I'm pointing out that Vail has on several occasions made it clear that Cain's life is forfeit if anything should ever happen to Jurgen. Whether or not she'd follow through on that threat is a mystery I'm not game to explore, but point being, a safe room in the house is useless, if the person who has the key to it, is eaten by the rage infected monkeys in the first 10 seconds.

What good is "Keep Jurgen safe/secret" if literally the people who can, die without telling anyone? For obvious reasons, she can't bring him into the rentiue, it might would kill Rykhle (sp?). Then ofcouse, it might end up causing the death of Cain.

Vail leaves Jurgen with Cain so she knows where he is, and because so few people even know what Jurgen is.

She expressed concern that if Jurgen’s ability became wider known, he might be press ganged into another Inquisitor’s retinue.

Given Blanks are more situational, having him secret but always exactly where she knows where to go grab him suits best.

Plus we can’t entirely rule out some romantic softness toward Cain, seeing as Jurgen is also, despite experiences, a truly exceptional Guardsman. Utterly unflappable, highly effective in combat, and ridiculously loyal. You couldn’t ask for a better Adjutant

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Vail leaves Jurgen with Cain so she knows where he is, and because so few people even know what Jurgen is.

She expressed concern that if Jurgen’s ability became wider known, he might be press ganged into another Inquisitor’s retinue.

Given Blanks are more situational, having him secret but always exactly where she knows where to go grab him suits best.

Plus we can’t entirely rule out some romantic softness toward Cain, seeing as Jurgen is also, despite experiences, a truly exceptional Guardsman. Utterly unflappable, highly effective in combat, and ridiculously loyal. You couldn’t ask for a better Adjutant

Absolutely all true.

What would the best Cadian trooper who ever lived think of Ferik Jugen on inspection day? Is he a good soldier? Yes. Is he a model soldier, never, not ever. But he's the literal Stan Laurel to Cain's Oliver Hardy. Either way, they're polar opposites. It's almost the Portrait of Dorian Grey. One is poster perfect looking but is a lazy slacker coward, one is the perfect hero Trooper, but looks like dog crap.

Two other things to keep in mind -

1.) Cain seems to draw trouble like a magnet draws iron. Most commissars probably don't have to deal with the sheer amount of crazy that Cain (and the 597th) regularly draw. Given that, keeping Jurgen in the 597th, which is a unit that generally draws missions like garrison duty (as opposed to being sent to conduct planetary invasions) is probably considered a reasonably safe option. And at least some of the "non-safe" garrison duty jobs are a result of Vail pulling strings to get the 597th assigned to that mission so that Jurgen would be close at hand.
2.) The troops in the 597th seem to be pretty good. Despite the crazy situations that it regularly finds itself in, we generally don't hear about large numbers of casualties amongst the troops. And the same recurring trooper characters keep popping up again and again, reinforcing the idea that the characters tend to have a pretty high survival rate. Since the troops aren't cowards, that suggests that they're very good for an IG regiment.

or be found out as a wanton coward.

Given the number of heroics under his belt even before Vail meets him (he killed an ork warboss in single combat), there would need to be some extremely convincing evidence. Further, while Vail might be aware of his view of himself even before she reads his memoirs, it's clear that she doesn't believe it even after she reads the memoirs.

The 597th overall competence is quite likely down to Cain serving as an inspiration.

As a Commissar, he tends to offer lighter punishments where possible. And his cautious nature (not necessarily cowardly) not only saves his own neck by not taking needless risks, but the lives of those under his command.

The fewer lives fruitlessly wasted on “glorious last stands/charges/assaults”, the longer your Soldiers survive. The longer they survive, the more skilled and competent they become.

Cain is also seemingly a dab hand at promotions. This in itself is good for morale. Nobody likes to see a brown nose put in command of anything. Nobody wants a donkey leading their lions. Cain, Kasteen and Broklaw ensure that doesn’t happen.

Can does admit in one of his books, I think it's the one with the Tallarns, to having a man flogged for starting a brawl in a bar. That speaks a lot about character. You don't get a reputation as a person who cares about people if you also have them publicly whipped and beaten. He gets the reputation through clever half truths and adept use of charisma.

Ahh, but Cain himself may have ordered the punishment, but didn’t have it set as the penalty associated with that crime.

It could well be that a flogging was a mark of discretion should the range of available punishments include summary execution.

Yeah, how many soldiers died in the bar brawl, and did any senior officers get their uniforms besmirched because of it?

A flogging seems like pretty light punishment to be honest.

 Flinty wrote:
Yeah, how many soldiers died in the bar brawl, and did any senior officers get their uniforms besmirched because of it?

A flogging seems like pretty light punishment to be honest.

IIRC the various punishments listed in the Imperial Infantryman’s Uplifting Primer started with flogging at the very low end, included a whole lot of being shot in the middle and then had various physical punishments prior to being shot at the high end.

And Cain’s first book starts with him trying to avoid executing people for starting a brawl (though quite a few people died in that one).

His decision in the first book was about not losing the entire regiment straight off the bat, as it was the merging of the two that kicked off the entire brawl.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
His decision in the first book was about not losing the entire regiment straight off the bat, as it was the merging of the two that kicked off the entire brawl.

It also establishes his "tough but fair" reputation with the regiment. In various situations, he *must* impose a penalty of some sort that fits with the crime. Otherwise the troops will (rightly) see him as a pushover. Presumably the bar brawl that merited a flogging was something particularly problematic for the regiment, and the instigator was more clearly out of line than would typically be the case. We don't know the details, so we can't really judge whether the punishment was appropriate.

It's also worth noting that there's nothing to suggest that the ranking officers in the regiment are unhappy with the level of discipline and punishment that he provides.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
His decision in the first book was about not losing the entire regiment straight off the bat, as it was the merging of the two that kicked off the entire brawl.

That’s why he was trying so hard to not execute even the murderers from that brawl yes.

But the point I was making was that executing people for being involved in the brawl (even beyond those that actually killed people) was very much considered an appropriate punishment by the system to the point that the punishments Cain did hand out for being involved ended up being considered the epitome of mercy by those they were handed to (establishing his ‘tough but fair’ reputation as Eumerin notes).

Hence the flogging for being involved in a different brawl mentioned earlier in the thread, was probably also seen as ‘tough but fair’ rather than harsh if other worse punishments (including execution) were realistic outcomes by the rules.

The book I'm talking about is one of the Anthology. The one you are talking about is where he first creates the 597th. In that one, he assigns them to a dirty dozen suicide mission. Whatever. The one I'm talking about, the guard soldiers started a bar fight with civilians and no one dies, but the soldiers are flogged. All I'm saying is if you can order a man flogged, watch the skin literally flayed off their back, then you're not their friend. You do not care about them. He does not view them as soldiers to be protected, he's not a caring person, I guess tldr. He's a cold hearted wretch who doesn't care who lives or dies as long as it isn't him.