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Hi all, wasn't sure where to post this. I used to play a bit in the 80's but then life happened and stopped, find myself with free time now and want to give it another go. Tried Warmachine a few years ago but didn't get on with it and moved away from my friend who played. 75% sure I want to try 40k as that was new when I stopped playing and never tried it but AoS and LOTR is kinda appealing. I've got a boat load of questions so really want to know which forum I should post them.

Well, you've found your way to the 40k general forum...
Fire away with the 40k questions.

Ok, here goes, thinking of starting with an Adepta Sororitas combat patrol, my painting skills were never great but back in the 80's it was very different and it's does seem easier with contrast paints and shades now, well it seems that way on youtube. So really Q1, is this combat patrol box a good start? Q2. am I setting myself up for failure with this as a rubbish painter.

1) have you read and understood the rules?
Both for the game & your chosen force?

2) Since your starting from zero, the CP box is as good a starting point as any.

3) EVERYONE sucks at painting when they begin.
Don't worry about it because....
Everyone also improves as they paint more.
So no, your not on a path to failure.

It can also be usefull to pick up some cheap minis to practice on. I use the stuff WizKids makes for D&D. There's a handful of orcs, small dragons/creatures, etc in a bin under my work table that serve as paint-test dummies.

ccs wrote:
1) have you read and understood the rules?
Both for the game & your chosen force?

2) Since your starting from zero, the CP box is as good a starting point as any.

3) EVERYONE sucks at painting when they begin.
Don't worry about it because....
Everyone also improves as they paint more.
So no, your not on a path to failure.

It can also be usefull to pick up some cheap minis to practice on. I use the stuff WizKids makes for D&D. There's a handful of orcs, small dragons/creatures, etc in a bin under my work table that serve as paint-test dummies.

Been watching a lot of youtube battle reports and got the general idea for the flavour of most factions, I have just had another rewatch of Warrior Nun so that may have swayed me. It does seem a bit easier than in the 80's with these new fangled shades and contrast paints. I did pop into my localish GW shop on staurday and I'm going back mid-week in the day to run through a few games to bring me up to speed and see how it's changed since 1990 when I last played.

Have you downloaded the Sisters’ rules?
They’re currently available, for free, from GW.

Black can be hard to do well, but there are quite a few non-black schemes for Sisters that would work well with contrast style paints.

I’m with CCS though, don’t go in worrying about painting skills. Developing these are part of the hobby, and there are now so many amazing resources on YouTube to help starting.

Welcome back to the game, it's not often we get people who last played when 40K was a new thing

Since you're interested in 40K and AOS and LOTR I would spend some time deciding which system is best for you. The deciding factor might be what is easiest to find opponents for in your area. Alternatively have a look at battle reports and other Youtube videos before deciding. Buying, assembling and painting up a whole army is a big investment in time and money, so before you start make sure you are collecting for the right system.

As for your paint skills, or lack of: Sisters of Battle are as good an army as any to start practicing. Remember that you're not competing with people who post pictures of their models online, the models just have to look good to you. And as others have said, it's certainly true that the only real way to get better at painting miniatures is to practice.

 Flinty wrote:
Black can be hard to do well, but there are quite a few non-black schemes for Sisters that would work well with contrast style paints.

I’m with CCS though, don’t go in worrying about painting skills. Developing these are part of the hobby, and there are now so many amazing resources on YouTube to help starting.

Wasn't keen on the black anyway, was looking to go for a bit of a purple(ish) instead or red twist on the Argent Shroud

whats the difference between the online rules, the codex and the index cards? Internet wasn't a thing last time I played.

 Starbase804 wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
Black can be hard to do well, but there are quite a few non-black schemes for Sisters that would work well with contrast style paints.

I’m with CCS though, don’t go in worrying about painting skills. Developing these are part of the hobby, and there are now so many amazing resources on YouTube to help starting.

Wasn't keen on the black anyway, was looking to go for a bit of a purple(ish) instead or red twist on the Argent Shroud

whats the difference between the online rules, the codex and the index cards? Internet wasn't a thing last time I played.

The online rules have erratas and FAQs built-in, the Index Cards need you to write them down or remember them.

Eventually, when the Codex comes out, the Index will be retired, but I don't think we have an ETA on the Sisters' Dex.

The Adepta Sororitas codex is on the roadmap for this summer. The only Sisters codices that exist at the moment are for old editions (which aren't compatible with the current 10th edition).

I wouldn't wait for the codex to appear before collecting this army, just need to be aware that things will change when it's released, as always.

I’d recommend going the Combat Patrol route. Whilst not cheap, because this is GW we’re talking about, it does have a firm price cap if you just want to leave it there, as each set is (more or less!) balanced against each other Combat Patrol.

That should give you some kind of taste for the flavour of modern 40K, and whether you want to keep going. Certainly it makes more sense to me than splashing out on a full army, only to potentially find the game a bit disappointing.

I don’t mean to poison the well here, as I’ve not played for several editions myself. This is more general advice on how to dip your toe first, and not a commentary on the chances of you enjoying the game and hobby as you once did. Plus Combat Patrol sets are rarely a poor bedrock for building a larger force from.

The painting side? As someone who is now painting after years of refusing to? It’s easier than ever to get a good result with relatively minimal skill. I’d highly recommend seeking out various and sundry tutorials on YouTube and what have you. The biggest advantage to those is you can see each stage, and exactly how it’s applied in terms of brush strokes. Videos for all levels of skill exist. GW’s own-brand ones are particularly informative for newbies, as they’re well lit, well framed, and well explained. Others can be just as good, but others still just don’t have a decent camera setup, which prevents you seeing how the paint is applied, or entirely gloss over certain stages.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Starbase804 wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
Black can be hard to do well, but there are quite a few non-black schemes for Sisters that would work well with contrast style paints.

I’m with CCS though, don’t go in worrying about painting skills. Developing these are part of the hobby, and there are now so many amazing resources on YouTube to help starting.

Wasn't keen on the black anyway, was looking to go for a bit of a purple(ish) instead or red twist on the Argent Shroud

whats the difference between the online rules, the codex and the index cards? Internet wasn't a thing last time I played.

The online rules have erratas and FAQs built-in, the Index Cards need you to write them down or remember them.

Eventually, when the Codex comes out, the Index will be retired, but I don't think we have an ETA on the Sisters' Dex.

oh, and what about the data cards?

Data cards are just the Index, printed on nice paper.

The Index Cards and the Index itself will both be mostly the same as the Codex, just lacking some content and some tweaks.

So the Index Cards are the rules for the individual units- they contain the stats, the wargear list, and a special rule for the unit to help it stand out from other units. I HIGHLY recommend printing the unit cards for every unit in your army and using them during the game. I don't buy the cards- I find printing the free ones allows me to spend more on models- but if you've got that kind of disposable income, it is another option.

The rules- whether online or in print- are what you need to understand how the game works. It has generic strategems, which are special abilities that you can use if you have enough Command Points. It also has all of the USRs (Universal Special Rules)- so for example, an Index card may tell you that your weapon inflicts devastating wounds... But you'll find the devastating wound rule in the core rules.

Codexes, when they are released, will provide additional detachment options, which can change the way your army performs on the table. Armies without a Codex generally have only one detachment. Every army will get a Codex, but they never release faster than 1/month, and sometimes not even that fast. The Sisters dex isn't out yet, but it is coming soon.

About Combat Patrol Boxes:

So Combat Patrol IS a specific game mode, where EVERY Combat Patrol box is a self contained army. Unit and army rules in Combat Patrol may differ from those in the full version of the game in order to better balance the Combat Patrol boxes against each other. So if you bought a Combat Patrol box, and you know other people who did the same, you can play the Combat Patrol version of the game right out of the box. You can also look up points costs for all the models, equip them as you choose and use them in regular 40k... But if you do, they aren't necessarily as well balanced against other combat patrol boxes.

Something to beware of though: Combat Patrol, as a balancing mechanism, uses fixed load outs. If you build your models for Combat Patrol, you may end up picking options that are sub-optimal in the main game, so it's worth thinking about which version of the game you see yourself playing most often.

About the Sisters Combat Patrol specifically:

It's not bad- your Arco Flagellants and Repentia are minimum sized units, which makes them fairly fragile. The troops unit is somewhat Mono-pose... But it is visually different from the unit you build with the Battle Sisters unit box, so it's nice to have for variety. The Penitent Engine is also visually different from the standard box. The Rhino is interesting; in this edition, Rhinos have Firing Deck 2, meaning that two weapons can be fired from inside the vehicle, and unlike the Immolator it can carry a full battle sisters unit + two characters. This makes the Rhino a practical vehicle choice, even if it is not the big shiny of our other tanks.

I would never buy a rhino on its own- If I'm buying a tank, it's going to be big shiny. But the fact that this comes with the box can be the reason that you end up with one. Like I said, it's not an awful choice or anything... It's just kinda plain compared to other tank options.

for the core rules is the leviathon edition different from the standard one? Seen the Leviathon cheap on eBay.

Same rules, just a fancy cover.

The regular ruleset isn't different than the regular rules online...

But the Leviathan book is good because it ALSO contains the Crusade rules, which aren't in the standard rulebook and aren't available online. If you can get the Leviathan book for cheap, I'd say it's worth your while... But that's because I love Crusade.

 Starbase804 wrote:
Ok, here goes, thinking of starting with an Adepta Sororitas combat patrol, my painting skills were never great but back in the 80's it was very different and it's does seem easier with contrast paints and shades now, well it seems that way on youtube. So really Q1, is this combat patrol box a good start? Q2. am I setting myself up for failure with this as a rubbish painter.

1) Sisters aren't in a great place, but if you're in it for the long term and you like them go for it.

2) Combat Patrols (and others of what are commonly called Value Added Boxed Sets- you'll see Army/Battleforce etc. boxes around Christmas and random other times) are usually great.

3) Everyone is harder on their own paint job than yours so its not really that big of a deal. With that said I got a lot better when I picked up an airbrush. Rattlecans were my weakness. Yours may vary.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Same rules, just a fancy cover.

In theory there are 4 different rules locations you can acquire:

1) Free PDF on the webpage.

2) Small bare bones book in the Starter Set

3) Big Hardcover with lots of "Fluff" as the backstory is often called in the Leviathan box.

4) Big Hardcover with lots of fluff for sale on the website.

Breton wrote:

 Starbase804 wrote:
Ok, here goes, thinking of starting with an Adepta Sororitas combat patrol, my painting skills were never great but back in the 80's it was very different and it's does seem easier with contrast paints and shades now, well it seems that way on youtube. So really Q1, is this combat patrol box a good start? Q2. am I setting myself up for failure with this as a rubbish painter.

1) Sisters aren't in a great place, but if you're in it for the long term and you like them go for it.

2) Combat Patrols (and others of what are commonly called Value Added Boxed Sets- you'll see Army/Battleforce etc. boxes around Christmas and random other times) are usually great.

3) Everyone is harder on their own paint job than yours so its not really that big of a deal. With that said I got a lot better when I picked up an airbrush. Rattlecans were my weakness. Yours may vary.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Same rules, just a fancy cover.

In theory there are 4 different rules locations you can acquire:

1) Free PDF on the webpage.

2) Small bare bones book in the Starter Set

3) Big Hardcover with lots of "Fluff" as the backstory is often called in the Leviathan box.

4) Big Hardcover with lots of fluff for sale on the website.

Managed to pick up a new leviathan book on eBay for £20 with the delivery so happy with that. I think with the painting it's knowing what colours to pick up to be able to accomplish what I want, enough to get the job done but not too many where I waste money and have too many options. I'd like to do something like this but a bit less silvery, kinda like a nod to the Minbari colours in B5.

 Starbase804 wrote:
I think with the painting it's knowing what colours to pick up to be able to accomplish what I want, enough to get the job done but not too many where I waste money and have too many options. I'd like to do something like this but a bit less silvery, kinda like a nod to the Minbari colours in B5.

There's an app for that! https://citadelcolour.com/citadel-colour-the-app/

If you're trying to do an entirely DIY scheme you'll probably have to find a model with the color you want, and follow that color only on that model, then rinse and repeat with a new model for each color. If you replicate an existing scheme then you can just pick one model and follow all the colors on that model.

Breton wrote:
In theory there are 4 different rules locations you can acquire:
3) Big Hardcover with lots of "Fluff" as the backstory is often called in the Leviathan box.

Leviathan rule book has the Crusade campaign rules in it, which the main big book doesn't. Get the Leviathan cards too, if you go that route.
People who are selling that book probably bought 2x of the Leviathan box, and have 2 rulebooks and 2 sets of cards, shifting one of each.

 Skinnereal wrote:

Breton wrote:
In theory there are 4 different rules locations you can acquire:
3) Big Hardcover with lots of "Fluff" as the backstory is often called in the Leviathan box.

Leviathan rule book has the Crusade campaign rules in it, which the main big book doesn't. Get the Leviathan cards too, if you go that route.
People who are selling that book probably bought 2x of the Leviathan box, and have 2 rulebooks and 2 sets of cards, shifting one of each.

what are the cards?

Breton wrote:

1) Sisters aren't in a great place, but if you're in it for the long term and you like them go for it.

Sisters seem like a prime candidate for allying in a Knight of some sort to help bolster their capabilities.

 Starbase804 wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:

Breton wrote:
In theory there are 4 different rules locations you can acquire:
3) Big Hardcover with lots of "Fluff" as the backstory is often called in the Leviathan box.

Leviathan rule book has the Crusade campaign rules in it, which the main big book doesn't. Get the Leviathan cards too, if you go that route.
People who are selling that book probably bought 2x of the Leviathan box, and have 2 rulebooks and 2 sets of cards, shifting one of each.

what are the cards?

A deck of mission building cards -

A half dozen or so of Board Dimensions - i,.e Set up This way (across, diagonal, long board edge), Objectives here, then pick sides.
Primary Mission Rules - Take And Hold, Explore the Whole Board, Kill the Warlord type stuff.
Secondary Mission Rules
A couple gambit cards for each player (Last Ditch chance to win)
A bunch of mission modifier rules - i.e. No Effect, Low Visibility, Comms Interference (with assorted different effects on that battle - this helps change up the same mission over and over as its no longer the same mission after being modified)

You take a Board Dimension, a Primary Mission, Secondary Mission(s), and modifiers to create the final mission set.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Breton wrote:

1) Sisters aren't in a great place, but if you're in it for the long term and you like them go for it.

Sisters seem like a prime candidate for allying in a Knight of some sort to help bolster their capabilities.

Meh, you're limited to one and one of almost anything can die fast. Its got Distraction Carnifex potential if you can/will add a bunch of other vehicles like their special Predator, the Epic Inquisitor and such.

One could play SoB and get good results, it is just that it is an expensive, but not as much as ad mecha, army and it is very taxing on both players, because of the number of units run. SoB may not be necron or IG, but they are very strong, as long as they are played with that one swarm build with a regular pre set of terrain. Problems start when someone decide to do their own army, then the fact that SoB don't have carry units or carry rules comes out to shine

Would it be worth starting with Kill Team or would I just be having to learn all over if I wanted to play full 40k?

Kill Team is nothing like 40k in a lot of ways. Combat Patrol is, which works as a starter force for full-on 40k.

Kill Team is pretty much a different game

Breton wrote:

 Starbase804 wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:

Breton wrote:
In theory there are 4 different rules locations you can acquire:
3) Big Hardcover with lots of "Fluff" as the backstory is often called in the Leviathan box.

Leviathan rule book has the Crusade campaign rules in it, which the main big book doesn't. Get the Leviathan cards too, if you go that route.
People who are selling that book probably bought 2x of the Leviathan box, and have 2 rulebooks and 2 sets of cards, shifting one of each.

what are the cards?

A deck of mission building cards -

A half dozen or so of Board Dimensions - i,.e Set up This way (across, diagonal, long board edge), Objectives here, then pick sides.
Primary Mission Rules - Take And Hold, Explore the Whole Board, Kill the Warlord type stuff.
Secondary Mission Rules
A couple gambit cards for each player (Last Ditch chance to win)
A bunch of mission modifier rules - i.e. No Effect, Low Visibility, Comms Interference (with assorted different effects on that battle - this helps change up the same mission over and over as its no longer the same mission after being modified)

You take a Board Dimension, a Primary Mission, Secondary Mission(s), and modifiers to create the final mission set.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Breton wrote:

1) Sisters aren't in a great place, but if you're in it for the long term and you like them go for it.

Sisters seem like a prime candidate for allying in a Knight of some sort to help bolster their capabilities.

Meh, you're limited to one and one of almost anything can die fast. Its got Distraction Carnifex potential if you can/will add a bunch of other vehicles like their special Predator, the Epic Inquisitor and such.

So what are these?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B083P6K5P9?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details