Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2024/05/24 12:31:01
Subject: AoS N&R (Skaven+SCE Reveals p12, Abraxia+Dawnbringers VI p16, SCE Faction Focus p17)
AOS is so absurd a setting that you either explain everything with ''because magic'', and like it or just collect minis/use them in other games, and/or play the game do not giving a gak about the lore.
2024/05/24 12:36:32
Subject: AoS N&R (Skaven+SCE Reveals p12, Abraxia+Dawnbringers VI p16, SCE Faction Focus p17)
Shadow Walker wrote: AOS is so absurd a setting that you either explain everything with ''because magic'', and like it or just collect minis/use them in other games, and/or play the game do not giving a gak about the lore.
I love the idea of the setting, but yes there's a whole bunch of lore that just feels like it was thrown out there as ideas and no one at GW really cared to try and make the realms "work".
You can really really tell this at the very start of AoS where things are even more mind-bendlingly crazy. GW have actually toned it down here and there.
It's a shame because its such an insanely vibrant world it should be the Discworld of "serious" fantasy. It's certainly channelling that same energy; just without a creator caring to make it a functional system.
I think its also hobbled because of how GW likes ot present its lore is very company driven whcih means they only want to talk about models in their stories. This kind of means that things like farming; farmers; food production; how you live; wildlife and so forth often gets either outright ignored or only mentioned in passing. That worked in Old World because it was very akin to other fantasies and reality. So you could mention serfs farming in Bretonnia and most people would be able to imagine how it worked without too much a stretch of the imagination.
You mention farmers farming in AoS and you get a billion questions come to mind about what kind of crop; how they harvest it; how they protect it; how they water and feed it; how they transport and trade it; what the livestock on the farm are like and so forth.
Old world was designed to be a grim twist on something familiar, with a recognizable connection to reality. The miniatures in many ways served or were beholden to the setting.
AOS was designed so the design studio would never feel fenced in by the setting at any time. Imo it is so maximally broad in order to solve the "problem" of setting or aesthetic consistency. They can just write whatever they want about whatever place to serve whatever purpose they want to serve for the miniatures.
2024/05/24 13:17:41
Subject: AoS N&R (Skaven+SCE Reveals p12, Abraxia+Dawnbringers VI p16, SCE Faction Focus p17)
Yep and in part that's because what GW envisioned at the launch of AoS was boutique models and nothing else. They needed a setting that was basically infinite because they weren't going to make big armies, factions, races and lore; but have short term ones all the time. Likely with rotation whenever moulds wore out or sales dipped on a faction. Drop them and go with a shiny new one.
You mention farmers farming in AoS and you get a billion questions come to mind about what kind of crop; how they harvest it; how they protect it; how they water and feed it; how they transport and trade it; what the livestock on the farm are like and so forth.
Hilariously, the Flesh Eaters Courts lore has the most we've ever gotten on farming and peasantry in the setting.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/05/24 14:17:01
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
2024/05/24 14:20:30
Subject: AoS N&R (Skaven+SCE Reveals p12, Abraxia+Dawnbringers VI p16, SCE Faction Focus p17)
lord_blackfang wrote: To be fair, it's a subject entirely unexplored even in such literary giants as Middle Earth.
There are some references to it, to be fair. The general enthusiasm of hobbits for all sorts of farming, farmer Maggot and his homestead being quite prominently featured in the initial chapters, the pelennor fields around Minas Tirith etc.
The same goes for Game of thrones, where the Riverlands and the Reach are regularly referred to in terms of their agricultural use, Lemons in Dorne/Bravos etc.
I'm not saying it is necessary for AoS, in fact, I belive it would be kind of strange to have such dry facts inserted into an inherently silly setting like this, but let's not pretend that kind of detail in world building doesn't exist in other settings.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/05/24 14:52:59
NAVARRO wrote: I never really let go of the old-world lore and still look at my minis as part of that with stromcast being just a new faction.
Concur. I still insist there's a faction called 'Vampire Counts' in the Age of Sigmar, and I refuse to use most of their stupid Trademark names. 'Elf' does NOT have an 'a' in it!
She/Her
"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln
Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.
lord_blackfang wrote: To be fair, it's a subject entirely unexplored even in such literary giants as Middle Earth.
It's mentioned, but as I said because those settings lift a lot from the real world we live in and the past practice of historical times, we can at least envision them. Sure we don't have to know exact tools and crop rotations or field size and so forth. But we can imagine basic tooling, smithing, leatherworking and so forth that allows us to create a fairly decent mental picture. It fills the gaps on its own and person to person we can share a similar concept of the setting.
AoS however is bonkers nuts and honestly it wouldn't be dry to learn how farmers work and live in the realms when you consider how excitingly insanely wild they are as places.
Plus there are always ways to work such details in - the classic trope of "farmersboy saves kingdom" is a tried and tested way to show the bottom to the top of a society in a fantasy setting. You could easily have someone from a farming background rise up in the ranks of the Cities of Sigmar or suffer at the hands of another faction.
We've actually had some stories like this in the early Novella that did some good ground work on things.
Manfred von Drakken wrote: Concur. I still insist there's a faction called 'Vampire Counts' in the Age of Sigmar, and I refuse to use most of their stupid Trademark names. 'Elf' does NOT have an 'a' in it!
You mean the name that was stupid and made no sense in WFB in the first place? Only one of the "counts" was an actual count (Isabella von Carstein, and she was just a trophy wife Vlad and the rest of "family" used to illegally claim noble title, which can't be even said about the rest of the "count" bloodlines and in any case, obscures the origins and far older history of the faction than Vlad's recent minor scheme of a power grab).
As for elves, you are aware that for vast majority of their history it was spelled ælf in English and if anything, it's Tolkien who invented wrongly spelled donutsteel names for both them and dwarves (and funnily enough, GW with their 'dwarfs' spelling is how it's actually supposed to be written too)? You'd be far more correct if you claimed it shouldn't have e in it - see alfr, alp, alfs, af, and similar names in early English and other Germanic languages
BertBert wrote: The same goes for Game of thrones, where the Riverlands and the Reach are regularly referred to in terms of their agricultural use, Lemons in Dorne/Bravos etc.
Yeah no. Riverlands were torched regularly by like 547493 armies for 5 straight years in the books, funnily enough, it never caused noticeable famine or anything. Ditto with The Vale closing borders despite definitely not producing enough food due to terrain in the first place, said terrain making transporting what little they had nearly impossible. Supply issues? What's that?
As for the Reach, medieval historian tried to figure out how to supply any place of note from them in series of in depth articles. Spoiler alert - it makes even less sense than AoS handwaves, can't be done, due to stupid placement of the rivers on map, and King's Landing and pretty much the entire east of the map should have died in epic scale famine ages ago
Manfred von Drakken wrote: Concur. I still insist there's a faction called 'Vampire Counts' in the Age of Sigmar, and I refuse to use most of their stupid Trademark names. 'Elf' does NOT have an 'a' in it!
You mean the name that was stupid and made no sense in WFB in the first place? Only one of the "counts" was an actual count (Isabella von Carstein, and she was just a trophy wife Vlad and the rest of "family" used to illegally claim noble title, which can't be even said about the rest of the "count" bloodlines and in any case, obscures the origins and far older history of the faction than Vlad's recent minor scheme of a power grab).
As for elves, you are aware that for vast majority of their history it was spelled ælf in English and if anything, it's Tolkien who invented wrongly spelled donutsteel names for both them and dwarves (and funnily enough, GW with their 'dwarfs' spelling is how it's actually supposed to be written too)? You'd be far more correct if you claimed it shouldn't have e in it - see alfr, alp, alfs, af, and similar names in early English and other Germanic languages
i wish they had committed to spelling it with an æ. it's a very underrated character in english, especially ever since mtg stopped spelling æther the fun way
she/her
i have played games of the current edition
2024/05/25 09:02:17
Subject: AoS N&R (Skaven+SCE Reveals p12, Abraxia+Dawnbringers VI p16, SCE Faction Focus p17)
Overread wrote: Yep and in part that's because what GW envisioned at the launch of AoS was boutique models and nothing else. They needed a setting that was basically infinite because they weren't going to make big armies, factions, races and lore; but have short term ones all the time. Likely with rotation whenever moulds wore out or sales dipped on a faction. Drop them and go with a shiny new one.
And (imo), GW also expected Stormcast to be the Space Marines of the AoS universe. Prior to creation, I envision lots of excited marketing execs talking about how the punters would buy Stormcast over and over so they could have the gold faction, the silver faction, then the red, green, yellow, white and blue ones etc...
My Painting Blog: http://gimgamgoo.com/ Currently most played: Silent Death, Xenos Rampant, Mars Code Aurora and Battletech.
I tried dabbling with 40k9/10 again and tried AoS3 - Nice models, naff games, but I'm enjoying HH2 and loving Battletech Classic and Alpha Strike.
2024/05/25 10:21:49
Subject: AoS N&R (Skaven+SCE Reveals p12, Abraxia+Dawnbringers VI p16, SCE Faction Focus p17)
Overread wrote: Yep and in part that's because what GW envisioned at the launch of AoS was boutique models and nothing else. They needed a setting that was basically infinite because they weren't going to make big armies, factions, races and lore; but have short term ones all the time. Likely with rotation whenever moulds wore out or sales dipped on a faction. Drop them and go with a shiny new one.
And (imo), GW also expected Stormcast to be the Space Marines of the AoS universe. Prior to creation, I envision lots of excited marketing execs talking about how the punters would buy Stormcast over and over so they could have the gold faction, the silver faction, then the red, green, yellow, white and blue ones etc...
I really wanted to make a comment about the spiky Stormcast faction, but then remembered Chaos Warriors are already a thing.
She/Her
"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln
Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.
Its problematic with the AoS setting that you even need to think twice about how farming work.
Most other settings you instantly get the concept, but with AoS you simply have to imagine the good people of Aqshy harvesting floating potatoe chips and riding fyrebuzzards to herd their squiglike tomato cattle.
ZergSmasher wrote: So it looks like to play Skaven you pretty much have to get a set of Gnawhole models. Glad I wasn't planning on keeping the Skaven half of the launch box. I don't like it when certain models are required to play a faction. It's an unnecessary tax. Plus the models are out of stock currently (at least in the US); what are you supposed to do if you can't get the models?
Glad they didn't do Stormcast like that, and I hope that holds true for my Kruleboyz too. Faction terrain should be optional, not required for your army's basic abilities.
Aos faction terrain being must have isn't new though. Idoneth about only one whose terrain rules were so bad it was just movement blocker to use(and even that is valuable for 0pts)
Tournament crowd pleased with no dice roll debuffed but max 1debuff each.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fayric wrote: Its problematic with the AoS setting that you even need to think twice about how farming work.
Most other settings you instantly get the concept, but with AoS you simply have to imagine the good people of Aqshy harvesting floating potatoe chips and riding fyrebuzzards to herd their squiglike tomato cattle.
Not really since it's not like aqshy is all fire with no water.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/05/25 17:36:47
Only one of the "counts" was an actual count (Isabella von Carstein, and she was just a trophy wife Vlad and the rest of "family" used to illegally claim noble title, which can't be even said about the rest of the "count" bloodlines and in any case, obscures the origins and far older history of the faction than Vlad's recent minor scheme of a power grab).
You'd be far more correct if you claimed it shouldn't have e in it - see alfr, alp, alfs, 
