Author |
Message |
|
|
|
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
|
2024/05/10 06:21:29
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
The GK have THE fewest marines of any chapter because it is so much harder to recruit for, they're the physically weakest, smallest, slowest, and least battle resistant of the chapters. Remember, they don't have any Primaris marines in their chapter. Now most Space Marine chapters are better equipped/supplied than them too. The GK vehicle selection is THE worst of ALL chapters, they have no hover anything, no bikes, no drop pods, no bunkers, no impulsors, no repulsors, no artillery, no tanks, no contemptors, no centurions, no leviathans, and no redemptors. Their aircraft is much worse than the Guard's, who by the way actually have things like tanks or artillery.
SM chapters now have access to the tactical war suit (unless you're the GK), which is only slightly weaker than a dreadknight (still basic concept). I don't know how the Sororitas' "nundums" compete, but I'm betting they're close. To say the GK have the best equipment of the Space Marines is just factually wrong, they almost have the worst. With the exception of their terminator armor supply, they are one of the worst supplied/equipped military units in the galaxy.
Am I a heretic? What do you guys think?
|
|
|
|
2024/05/10 07:02:33
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
UK
|
You’re confusing models and the game rules with lore and fluff.
It’s a neglected model line that GW probably don’t know what to do with, or doesn’t match their current market strategy.
But in the fluff they are given access to the very best bespoke, artificer made equipment.
Theres a nice short story called Sacrafice by Ben Counter that goes into detail of just how much goes in to crafting the ammunition they use for example.
To simply say they are elite does them an injustice.
|
|
|
|
|
2024/05/10 07:14:25
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Second Story Man
|
Background/Lore and the game/rules are not really related
the lore is a little bit more stable but rules are made to generally fit into the setting but not representing it but are made to fit model releases
also faction rules are often 1-2 steps behind for the lore, and the "access to secret technology" is only valid for that one release and rendered obsolete by the release of another faction that get new models
For the GK, they should have been what Custodes are now but somehow GW decided to add the AC to the game instead with all new models and vehicles rather than expand the GK side of things
|
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise |
|
|
|
2024/05/10 08:46:37
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator
|
They look much cooler than any Primaris. (Aside from the Dreadknight, that is, which could be straight out of the ugly-primaris-vehicles factory.)
They're psyker marines from the Inquisition, which is quite nice.
Not sure where you get the impression/ numbers from that there's fewer of them than of other chapters because remember, we still have the hilarious number of only 1000 Marines per chapter which a single Ork waaagh could eat for breakfast. IIRC only Space Wolves and Black Templars break that number, though I could be wrong after Indomitus.
|
|
|
|
2024/05/10 09:55:27
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Hardened Veteran Guardsman
|
Sgt. Cortez wrote:Not sure where you get the impression/ numbers from that there's fewer of them than of other chapters because remember, we still have the hilarious number of only 1000 Marines per chapter which a single Ork waaagh could eat for breakfast. IIRC only Space Wolves and Black Templars break that number, though I could be wrong after Indomitus.
I think the older Index Astartes articles said that there were only 500 Grey Knights. But that was also when they looked identical to Deathwatch with a book instead of the "I" on their shoulders. The good ol' days when Grey Knights were a unit of 5 models for like 300 points that were just terminators with force weapons and the "Holocaust" psychic power. I really hope the theories and rumors are true that GK and DW are getting rolled into agents of the Imperium. Custodes and SoS belong there too. They never should have been their own armies.
|
|
|
|
2024/05/10 10:52:08
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Calculating Commissar
|
The lack of drop pods is because the Grey Knights can fully deploy via teleporter instead (a technologically superior approach). The fact this has rarely been well reflected in game mechanics is of no consequence to the lore.
Their mission is rapid insertion strikes against key objectives (like warp rifts or daemon summoning rituals) so heavy equipment is rarely used and low mobility is a drawback.
The lack of anything Primaris is because GW haven't worked out how they will do so/allocated the resources to redoing the range yet.
In addition, there are a number of lore examples of high tech that have no bearing on 40k. For example GK warships are amongst the highest tech in the Imperium, probably only matched by the Custodes and a small number of Mechanicus vessels. They are exceptionally fast, well armed and armoured, and feature advanced warp shielding.
It doesn't help that GW has tended to erode the psychic tech of the GKs over the last few editions. I miss when their Aegis-pattern gear allowed them to focus their psychic power to reduce enemy shooting, making enemies always count as night fighting against them.
|
ChargerIIC wrote:If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is. |
|
|
|
2024/05/10 11:06:07
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Leader of the Sept
|
GK got expanded out to the bare minimum that could be considered a stand alone force. In doing that, they got given a hodge podge of equipment, and apparently the line hasn't had much attention since.
The original lore had them equipped entirely with terminator armour, teleport capable as the ultimate in decapitation missions. As they were in terminator armour, Land Raiders as battle busses were logical for use where teleporting wasn't viable.
Other forces were used (and then discarded/reeducated/liquidated as necessary) by the Inquisition to set the conditions to bring the ultimate specialists in.
By trying to have them as a stand-alone force, GW added a bunch of stuff in that starts making less and less sense. In my view its the same with Deathwatch.
There was no in-universe reason to make them stand-alone force, and I agree with the point of view that they should have been part of an Imperial Agents style codex or Imperial Allies addendum.
|
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 |
|
|
|
2024/05/10 11:15:02
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Preparing the Invasion of Terra
|
The only point with any sense in the OPs post is that GK don't have Primaris which is weird.
Everything else is either incorrect or a weird comparison that makes no sense.
|
|
|
|
2024/05/10 11:25:33
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Most of this disconnect is a result of GK being an outdated model line. Once they are getting their long overdue rework, this will likely be addressed.
|
|
|
|
2024/05/13 02:15:30
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
Gert wrote:The only point with any sense in the OPs post is that GK don't have Primaris which is weird.
Everything else is either incorrect or a weird comparison that makes no sense.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open it and remove all doubt. You really think G-man was giving Cawl Big E's genetic code/gene-seed? I think GW has officially said this or it's in a book.
I know lore doesn't match tabletop, otherwise the Necrons should win almost ever battle. I was just listening to a YouTube GK video a couple days ago while looking for cool GK models to download and the author of the YT video says something about them being the best equipped marine chapter.
|
|
|
|
2024/05/13 05:40:06
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Fixture of Dakka
|
NorthernXY wrote:It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open it and remove all doubt.
Then why start this thread?
|
2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG
My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote:This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote:You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling. - No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... |
|
|
|
2024/05/13 11:43:57
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant
|
Whilst the GK don't have the biggest and best tanks and heavy weapons available to them - mainly due to their operational style -to say they are badly equipped is just wrong.
The most basic Grey Knight strike marine is armoured in artificier armour giving a 2+ save, can deepstrike natively, has a storm bolter which while nothing special is still a very good basic anti infantry gun and to round it off each one is armed with a really good close combat weapon.
That top of class protection, best deployment method, very good basic gun and great combat weapon - I'd say very well equipped, they are more than a match for most other space marine varieties.
|
40,000pts
8,000pts
3,000pts
3,000pts
6,000pts
2,000pts
1,000pts
:deathwatch: 3,000pts
:Imperial Knights: 2,000pts
:Custodes: 4,000pts |
|
|
|
2024/05/13 16:16:52
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
|
WisdomLS wrote:Whilst the GK don't have the biggest and best tanks and heavy weapons available to them - mainly due to their operational style -to say they are badly equipped is just wrong.
The most basic Grey Knight strike marine is armoured in artificier armour giving a 2+ save, can deepstrike natively, has a storm bolter which while nothing special is still a very good basic anti infantry gun and to round it off each one is armed with a really good close combat weapon.
That top of class protection, best deployment method, very good basic gun and great combat weapon - I'd say very well equipped, they are more than a match for most other space marine varieties.
Strike Squads used to have Power Armor only.
I did not notice they got upped to Artificer Armor. Neat.
|
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
|
|
|
2024/05/13 16:27:26
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Calculating Commissar
|
JNAProductions wrote: WisdomLS wrote:Whilst the GK don't have the biggest and best tanks and heavy weapons available to them - mainly due to their operational style -to say they are badly equipped is just wrong.
The most basic Grey Knight strike marine is armoured in artificier armour giving a 2+ save, can deepstrike natively, has a storm bolter which while nothing special is still a very good basic anti infantry gun and to round it off each one is armed with a really good close combat weapon.
That top of class protection, best deployment method, very good basic gun and great combat weapon - I'd say very well equipped, they are more than a match for most other space marine varieties.
Strike Squads used to have Power Armor only.
I did not notice they got upped to Artificer Armor. Neat.
In fairness, even when their aegis armour was a 3+, it still incorporated psychic gear like a psychic hood and various blessings and so on that destabilised daemons and enhanced the Grey Knight's ability to channel their own psychic power to do things like The Shrouding. It was never just power armour.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/05/13 16:27:47
ChargerIIC wrote:If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is. |
|
|
|
2024/05/13 17:22:26
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Preparing the Invasion of Terra
|
NorthernXY wrote:I know lore doesn't match tabletop, otherwise the Necrons should win almost ever battle. I was just listening to a YouTube GK video a couple days ago while looking for cool GK models to download and the author of the YT video says something about them being the best equipped marine chapter.
Ok then let's do a comparison between a regular Astartes and a Grey Knight's standard issue wargear.
Astartes - Power Armour, Boltgun/rifle, Bolt Pistol, Combat Knife, Frag/Krak Grenades
Grey Knight - Warded Artificer Armour, Stormbolter, Force Weapon, is also a Psyker.
|
|
|
|
2024/05/13 23:38:58
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
New Zealand
|
Gert wrote: NorthernXY wrote:I know lore doesn't match tabletop, otherwise the Necrons should win almost ever battle. I was just listening to a YouTube GK video a couple days ago while looking for cool GK models to download and the author of the YT video says something about them being the best equipped marine chapter.
Ok then let's do a comparison between a regular Astartes and a Grey Knight's standard issue wargear.
Astartes - Power Armour, Boltgun/rifle, Bolt Pistol, Combat Knife, Frag/Krak Grenades
Grey Knight - Warded Artificer Armour, Stormbolter, Force Weapon, is also a Psyker.
The Warded Artificer Armour is for specialists. The average Grey Knight has Terminator Armour.
|
|
|
|
2024/05/14 10:25:34
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Preparing the Invasion of Terra
|
I was more going for the Strike Squad equivalent but that is also a very fair point to make.
|
|
|
|
2024/05/18 04:47:20
Subject: Re:Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
|
I believe that the reason the Grey Knights do not have primarus marines is because they are a fix to a problem the Grey Knights do not have.
All geneseed in the galaxy is flawed, something is missing or imperfect with each chapter's material. Many are missing certain organs or have flawed versions without the constant in-put from the Primarchs. The Primarus marines are an attempt to fix those genetic imperfections with additional organs and fresh ways of creating marines.
However, if the GK lore is to be believed, they alone possess flawless geneseed. It came from an unknown source, possibly the Emperor as the genetic baseline or maybe it was a combination strain of all existing geneseed lineages to make a flawless generic geneseed line. So lorewise the Grey Knights don't need a Primarus patch because its fixing a problem they don't have.
As for why the rules don't make them the best, its because they are neglected by GW and haven't been given proper treatment.
|
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
|
|
|
2024/05/18 16:05:21
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
That's not what the Primaris are for.
|
|
|
|
|
2024/05/18 16:14:39
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Preparing the Invasion of Terra
|
There's no Primaris Grey Knights because:
A - Guilliman didn't know about the Grey Knights so couldn't order them to be created as Primaris.
B - Cawl could never get his grubby mitts on Grey Knight geneseed for rather obvious reasons and as such no Primaris Grey Knights.
|
|
|
|
2024/05/18 16:15:18
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
|
Primaris are a numbers game in a setting where madness and politics prevents the Imperium from just building whole legions of Marines to conquer the Galaxy anew.
So Primaris let them cheat and get more numbers to tackle all the threats they are under. The Grey Knights are even more of a surgical strike tool than regular marines. In theory they don't need "rank and file Primaris" to help them.
Of course with a setting as vast as the Imperium, chances are the GK could do with more numbers.
|
|
|
|
|
2024/05/19 10:23:48
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Cackling Daemonic Dreadnought of Tzeentch
|
Gert wrote:There's no Primaris Grey Knights because:
A - Guilliman didn't know about the Grey Knights so couldn't order them to be created as Primaris.
B - Cawl could never get his grubby mitts on Grey Knight geneseed for rather obvious reasons and as such no Primaris Grey Knights.
C: That would require revamping the whole line of models.
|
|
|
|
|
2024/05/23 06:31:34
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
Since posting this, I've realized I didn't really mean tabletop as much as I meant model painting and collecting. As mentioned by another poster, the Custodes haven't done a thing since Big E died but have a good size selection of models.
|
|
|
|
2024/05/23 07:22:58
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Grey Knights don't have Primaris because GW hasn't had a release/production slot to re-release all of their models as Grey Knights +1 yet.
They'll be Primarisised just like all the others. No Model No Background.
|
|
|
|
2024/05/23 07:25:56
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
Overread wrote:Primaris are a numbers game in a setting where madness and politics prevents the Imperium from just building whole legions of Marines to conquer the Galaxy anew.
So Primaris let them cheat and get more numbers to tackle all the threats they are under. The Grey Knights are even more of a surgical strike tool than regular marines. In theory they don't need "rank and file Primaris" to help them.
Of course with a setting as vast as the Imperium, chances are the GK could do with more numbers.
There's no reason the GK scientists and apothecaries aren't able to obtain the information on how to create primaris and incorporate them into the GK gene seed.
I'm also confused about the fact GK don't have apothecaries. They have the technology to create a dreadknight, but not enough to build one with a coffin?
|
|
|
|
2024/05/23 08:04:59
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Cackling Daemonic Dreadnought of Tzeentch
|
NorthernXY wrote: Overread wrote:Primaris are a numbers game in a setting where madness and politics prevents the Imperium from just building whole legions of Marines to conquer the Galaxy anew.
So Primaris let them cheat and get more numbers to tackle all the threats they are under. The Grey Knights are even more of a surgical strike tool than regular marines. In theory they don't need "rank and file Primaris" to help them.
Of course with a setting as vast as the Imperium, chances are the GK could do with more numbers.
There's no reason the GK scientists and apothecaries aren't able to obtain the information on how to create primaris and incorporate them into the GK gene seed.
I'm also confused about the fact GK don't have apothecaries. They have the technology to create a dreadknight, but not enough to build one with a coffin?
They have both Apothecaries and classic Dreadnoughts. The Paladin kit has the bits for an Apothecary, though they can only be included in a standard Terminator Squad.
|
|
|
|
|
2024/05/23 14:03:08
Subject: Re:Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
|
Yeah, Grey Knights have both Apothecaries and Dreadnoughts in their rules. They even have had unique Dreadnought rules from Forge World for a long time(mostly just adding Psycannon and psyker+force weapon option to the Dreadnought at the time)
|
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
|
|
|
2024/05/23 14:32:05
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Calculating Commissar
|
The FW Dreadnought looked great too:
|
ChargerIIC wrote:If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is. |
|
|
|
2024/05/26 15:02:59
Subject: Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
Sorry for late responses. Health is going down hill.
Manfred von Drakken wrote: NorthernXY wrote: Overread wrote:Primaris are a numbers game in a setting where madness and politics prevents the Imperium from just building whole legions of Marines to conquer the Galaxy anew.
So Primaris let them cheat and get more numbers to tackle all the threats they are under. The Grey Knights are even more of a surgical strike tool than regular marines. In theory they don't need "rank and file Primaris" to help them.
Of course with a setting as vast as the Imperium, chances are the GK could do with more numbers.
There's no reason the GK scientists and apothecaries aren't able to obtain the information on how to create primaris and incorporate them into the GK gene seed.
I'm also confused about the fact GK don't have apothecaries. They have the technology to create a dreadknight, but not enough to build one with a coffin?
They have both Apothecaries and classic Dreadnoughts. The Paladin kit has the bits for an Apothecary, though they can only be included in a standard Terminator Squad.
Checked out my GK sprues and see the apothecary bits. Already knew they have dreadnoughts from GW site.
Grey Templar wrote:Yeah, Grey Knights have both Apothecaries and Dreadnoughts in their rules. They even have had unique Dreadnought rules from Forge World for a long time(mostly just adding Psycannon and psyker+force weapon option to the Dreadnought at the time)
Thank you, can find the paladin apothecary bits.
Haighus wrote:The FW Dreadnought looked great too:
While I know GK really don't like being preserved in [castraferan] dreadnoughts, wouldn't/shouldn't they have contemptors and leviathans? As stated in a prior post, I think their dreadnoughts should be a sarcophagus with dreadknight limbs.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/05/26 15:03:28
|
|
|
|
2024/05/26 22:53:00
Subject: Re:Why does GW say the GK have some of the best equipment in the galaxy? They have worst.
|
|
The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
|
In theory they could have Contemptors. IIRC the old Contemptor rules actually were available to GKs.
And while I was not one of those who think Dreadknights look hideous and dumb, I think they are fine, I also think it would have been cool for Dreadknights to have simply been a unique type of Dreadnought chassis extension.
|
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
|
|
|
|