Looking into HH2 mechanicum after a Haitus

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**Tiger9gamer**

Hello, Getting into wargaming again, mainly old editions like 7th ed, prohammmer or HH1. Someone suggested maybe I try out HH2 w/ Liber Panoptica fan ruling, seeing as how I have a big skitarii army, so I was looking into it.

But looking at the rules and hearing about how marine heavy the game is, I feel like there is a lot missing in HH2 compared to HH1. A lot of fire power and AP is gone, weapon skills are now wonky compared to 7th, and a lot of the flavorful rules seem to have disappeared. Am I missing something? It seems like it heavily nerfs non marine armies to the point where I dont see the point in bringing them...

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Having just got my arse handed to me by Mechanicum? Don’t underestimate them.

Granted, Automata one on one aren’t quite as hard as Dreadnoughts - but they’re still tricky to tackle. Solid save, high toughness and multiple wounds isn’t something with a particularly hard counter.

Tanks can be blasted by Lascannon equipped squads. But Automata and Dreadnoughts need grinding down.

In hindsight and planing my next engagement? I’m gonna give Autocannon a whirl. A squad of 10 is…fairly cheap points wise. And they have solid range, a decent field of fire and with Rend? Have some chance of walloping Automata. Maybe. With a bit of luck.

**Tiger9gamer**

What was their list? cause I would be running either cybernetica or reductor, but comparing reductor to how it was in HH2... it doesn't look completely worth it, especially after what they did to the demolisher cannon.

also, how the heck do you add secutarii to an army?

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

1,500 points.

Drayakavak (the special character)

Arch Magos

20 Tech Thralls

20 Titan Guard

2 Thanatar

1 Domitar.

Now, this was my first game in….forever, so I made various and sundry rookie mistakes. But it was a tough list, and my choice of weapons was exceptionally poor as a match up.

But Thanatar have those Plasma Mortar things, which Ignores Cover. That is not to be sniffed at.

**Gert**

Personally, I would try to borrow the Liber Mechanicum and take a look at the rules for yourself rather than relying on reviews, forums, or something like Battlescribe.

Reviews tend to leave parts out for sake of time, forums make mistakes and apps like Battlescribe rely on people putting data in correctly.

**Tiger9gamer**

Gert wrote:
Personally, I would try to borrow the Liber Mechanicum and take a look at the rules for yourself rather than relying on reviews, forums, or something like Battlescribe.

Reviews tend to leave parts out for sake of time, forums make mistakes and apps like Battlescribe rely on people putting data in correctly.

The problem is, I have the rules and just with a glance it seems like a lot of the mainstays had been hit with the nerf bat. Castellex had the mauler bolt gun get nerfed, the reductor siege tanks got nerfed, the Myrmidon got nerfed… not a lot of good I can see besides thanatars from just reading the rules

**Not Online!!!**

Shooting in general got nerfed.

**Gert**

You're also comparing them to HH1 Mechanicum which were blindingly overpowered.

HH2 balance so far is much better IMO.

**Gadzilla666**

Tiger9gamer wrote:
Gert wrote:
Personally, I would try to borrow the Liber Mechanicum and take a look at the rules for yourself rather than relying on reviews, forums, or something like Battlescribe.

Reviews tend to leave parts out for sake of time, forums make mistakes and apps like Battlescribe rely on people putting data in correctly.

The problem is, I have the rules and just with a glance it seems like a lot of the mainstays had been hit with the nerf bat. Castellex had the mauler bolt gun get nerfed, the reductor siege tanks got nerfed, the Myrmidon got nerfed… not a lot of good I can see besides thanatars from just reading the rules

Wait. What? Myrmidons are "nerfed"? How the hell scary we they in HH 1.0? Anybody? Gert?

**Tiger9gamer**

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Tiger9gamer wrote:
Gert wrote:
Personally, I would try to borrow the Liber Mechanicum and take a look at the rules for yourself rather than relying on reviews, forums, or something like Battlescribe.

Reviews tend to leave parts out for sake of time, forums make mistakes and apps like Battlescribe rely on people putting data in correctly.

The problem is, I have the rules and just with a glance it seems like a lot of the mainstays had been hit with the nerf bat. Castellex had the mauler bolt gun get nerfed, the reductor siege tanks got nerfed, the Myrmidon got nerfed… not a lot of good I can see besides thanatars from just reading the rules

Wait. What? Myrmidons are "nerfed"? How the hell scary we they in HH 1.0? Anybody? Gert?

That was my initial reaction at least, it had been around 6 years since I played HH1

. it's mostly how the power fists on the destructors had been changed to a shock charger, which is a big downgrade for close combat.

Still... I am mostly sad at how the artillery carriages where hit by the nerf stick, along with reductor in general. The demolisher cannons especially seem bad now with a small blast.

Also the big hit to rad carbines and arc rifles where hit too, one of my personal faves from HH1 / 7th ed

**Gadzilla666**

Tiger9gamer wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote:
Tiger9gamer wrote:
Gert wrote:
Personally, I would try to borrow the Liber Mechanicum and take a look at the rules for yourself rather than relying on reviews, forums, or something like Battlescribe.

Reviews tend to leave parts out for sake of time, forums make mistakes and apps like Battlescribe rely on people putting data in correctly.

The problem is, I have the rules and just with a glance it seems like a lot of the mainstays had been hit with the nerf bat. Castellex had the mauler bolt gun get nerfed, the reductor siege tanks got nerfed, the Myrmidon got nerfed… not a lot of good I can see besides thanatars from just reading the rules

Wait. What? Myrmidons are "nerfed"? How the hell scary we they in HH 1.0? Anybody? Gert?

That was my initial reaction at least, it had been around 6 years since I played HH1 . it's mostly how the power fists on the destructors had been changed to a shock charger, which is a big downgrade for close combat.

Still... I am mostly sad at how the artillery carriages where hit by the nerf stick, along with reductor in general. The demolisher cannons especially seem bad now with a small blast.

Also the big hit to rad carbines and arc rifles where hit too, one of my personal faves from HH1 / 7th ed

Sooooo....Basically you're comparing them to:

Gert wrote:You're also comparing them to HH1 Mechanicum which were blindingly overpowered.

HH2 balance so far is much better IMO.

Nuff said.

**Tiger9gamer**

They didn't feel overpowered at the time, I was getting my teeth kicked in by a few opponents.

How about any advice for building the new HH2 armies?

**Not Online!!!**

Tiger9gamer wrote:
They didn't feel overpowered at the time, I was getting my teeth kicked in by a few opponents.

How about any advice for building the new HH2 armies?

Big bot that comes in plastic has a AT weapon. Make him a "perfect work" or whatever the upgrade is called. Get a techpriest behind him, watch as he makes every HQ Everywhere on the field cry even harder than a double exodus list.

Then theres somy myrmidons, though i am unsure as to currently which variant is the more evil one as i haven't the book in front of me.

If you are inclined to dark mech the decimator with dual claws is a very nice option for a support slot because Melee has more AP currently.
Average thalax are also not shaby, MM or Darkfire with an adept behind works wonders and that is a troopslot option.
Thalax aren't half bad either, beeing really flexible and tough aswell as highly mobile.

**Tiger9gamer**

Not Online!!! wrote:
Tiger9gamer wrote:
They didn't feel overpowered at the time, I was getting my teeth kicked in by a few opponents.

How about any advice for building the new HH2 armies?

Big bot that comes in plastic has a AT weapon. Make him a "perfect work" or whatever the upgrade is called. Get a techpriest behind him, watch as he makes every HQ Everywhere on the field cry even harder than a double exodus list.

Then theres somy myrmidons, though i am unsure as to currently which variant is the more evil one as i haven't the book in front of me.

If you are inclined to dark mech the decimator with dual claws is a very nice option for a support slot because Melee has more AP currently.
Average thalax are also not shaby, MM or Darkfire with an adept behind works wonders and that is a troopslot option.
Thalax aren't half bad either, beeing really flexible and tough aswell as highly mobile.

Think you got some names wrong but I can dig this, yea, I like thalax so I may get some more.

how oppressive are reactions? I see things like return fire and how accurate it is and It seems a bit much...

**Gert**

As long as you don't do anything silly like shoot a tank at a unit of Lascannons you'll be fine.

**Not Online!!!**

Gert wrote:
As long as you don't do anything silly like shoot a tank at a unit of Lascannons you'll be fine.

Aye. Turns out using brain and mixing in units with things like Pinning and LoS ignoring firepower also helps massively. Facilitiates also a bit of list diversity.

BTB, Militia can make great allies for mechanicum if tech thralls aren't your thing, can also make pseudo Skitarri out of milita grenadiers Tiger.

**Tiger9gamer**

Gert wrote:
As long as you don't do anything silly like shoot a tank at a unit of Lascannons you'll be fine.

Alright, so how do you take care of things like iron warriors with las cannons? especially in a knight / tank / robot heavy list, it seems like there is a big disadvantage. Even if I shoot a thanatar at them, I could see either the thanatar get heavily wounded or destroyed from a trade. I would even be hesitant to shoot castellax at them, just because it seems like I am guarenteed to lose one to two models if they roll hot. I am just trying to get used to this new system

Not Online!!! wrote:
Gert wrote:
As long as you don't do anything silly like shoot a tank at a unit of Lascannons you'll be fine.

Aye. Turns out using brain and mixing in units with things like Pinning and LoS ignoring firepower also helps massively. Facilitiates also a bit of list diversity.

BTB, Militia can make great allies for mechanicum if tech thralls aren't your thing, can also make pseudo Skitarri out of milita grenadiers Tiger.

I am planning on mixing in grenadiers too, but mainly my lists right now is what I got. I am poor and my 3d printer is out of wack atm, so I gotta play with what I got sadly. I am only barely reaching 2k points as is, though I will have more if I play with the liber panoptica for 40k skitarii

**Gert**

Tiger9gamer wrote:
Alright, so how do you take care of things like iron warriors with las cannons? especially in a knight / tank / robot heavy list, it seems like there is a big disadvantage. Even if I shoot a thanatar at them, I could see either the thanatar get heavily wounded or destroyed from a trade. I would even be hesitant to shoot castellax at them, just because it seems like I am guarenteed to lose one to two models if they roll hot. I am just trying to get used to this new system

If you've come up against Iron Warrior Lascannons then you're just going to have to suffer it. That being said, Lascannons are much better at killing tanks and heavy infantry (Terminators or Thallax) than Dreadnoughts or Automata.
They've got high-strength and AP but they're still expensive and have a low rate of fire. Compare that to something like Autocannons or Plasma which still has high strength but also has Rending/Breaching to deal with armour saves, and Lascannons are not the ultimate god killer.
Frankly, you're just going to have to learn how to play the game and Mechanicum has a lot of neat units to choose from and they've just gone plastic as well. The Legacies PDF still has some of the older units that got cut out initially and if Solar Aux are anything to go by there might even be new units coming along.

**Tiger9gamer**

Yea, I plan on playing soonish. I got a list for my first game, probably not too good but I hope it works

Spoiler:

**Gert**

You'll have board control but you're going to struggle with damage output at 2k.

I get you want to use what you have but I would recommend ditching the Skitarii for the most part and proxying in some more Automata or vehicles.

**Tiger9gamer**

Gert wrote:
You'll have board control but you're going to struggle with damage output at 2k.

I get you want to use what you have but I would recommend ditching the Skitarii for the most part and proxying in some more Automata or vehicles.

That is fair, I see your point. I can remove the galvanic caster skitarii at least, or another one of rad carbines. I do have Domitars and Kastelen from 40k I could use too, or more onagers as stand ins for reductor tanks. I want to keep skitarii cause I personally love them, but I can for sure cut them down by half and bring in something like that. I do also have 3 more myrmidon destructors, knights and armigers I could bring

**Gert**

Definitely take a more varied list. I get wanting to use what you think is cool but balance that out with sound tactical options.
A couple of units of Skitarii are fine but 600 points is a lot of space for very little return.

**Tiger9gamer**

that is fair. removing the galvanic ones w/ hammer shot, think I should just go for a myrmidon destructor squad of 6 darkfire destructors, or another tank in my artillery unit? or think I should just proxy secutors with the destructors instead? I would take robots but I dont have too many characters I want to have baby sit them

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

I’m hoping to get ahead of the game, and will be receiving my Liber Mechanicum in the next day or two.

I’m not looking to start a further army, at least not yet. But there’s sense in knowing what your opponent can and can’t do.

**Gert**

Tiger9gamer wrote:
that is fair. removing the galvanic ones w/ hammer shot, think I should just go for a myrmidon destructor squad of 6 darkfire destructors, or another tank in my artillery unit? or think I should just proxy secutors with the destructors instead? I would take robots but I dont have too many characters I want to have baby sit them

Honestly? I'd cut the Skitarii detachment in half and use the points literally anywhere else. Cheap characters with some robots would be the best way to go probably. Again, proxies are your friend until you're sure what you want to do with the army.

**Tiger9gamer**

Gert wrote:
Tiger9gamer wrote:
that is fair. removing the galvanic ones w/ hammer shot, think I should just go for a myrmidon destructor squad of 6 darkfire destructors, or another tank in my artillery unit? or think I should just proxy secutors with the destructors instead? I would take robots but I dont have too many characters I want to have baby sit them

Honestly? I'd cut the Skitarii detachment in half and use the points literally anywhere else. Cheap characters with some robots would be the best way to go probably. Again, proxies are your friend until you're sure what you want to do with the army.

Alright, that is fair. Thanks for the help, I'm going to be playing around with how things work for a bit and probably posting here.

how does a trios filled with secutors play? and, generally, when going myrmidax how can you play around with things without being too cheesy?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Further question; Do you have to have an archimandrite tech priest to ally in a Questoris household detachment?

**Gert**

You can take a Knight as LoW but I'm not 100% sure how the Household detachment works so you'd need to check the rules for it.

AFAIK the Archimandrite is to allow you to bring allied Mechanicum that don't share the same class as your main detachment, for example Reductor with Cybernetica allies.

**Tiger9gamer**

Got it, okay. I know the titan legion does need to ally in under an archemendrite, as they are explicitly a mechanicus detachment. I ask because I really want to bring armigers with me in my first list.

from what I am reading, it seems that they are? I probably need to go to You make da call for this

**Kothra**

It's all a bit confusing but after looking through the Liber and the Rules Commentary, it sure looks to me like the Archimandrite only applies to the "Allied Detachment."

If you are including the Maniple or Household detachments in addition to a primary detachment they aren't "Allied Detachments" and so don't need the Archimandrite.

From the Rules Commentary:

A Mechanicum army cannot include an Allied Detachment from any of the other Mechanicum Army Lists as these are not separate Factions or Sub-factions (with reference to the Divisio Tactica – these Detachments are ‘additional’ or ‘optional’ Detachments not an ‘Allied’ Detachments and can be included in any army, however any limitations on total points values of Lords of War units still apply unless another rule states otherwise).

**Fifty**

Gert wrote:
You can take a Knight as LoW but I'm not 100% sure how the Household detachment works so you'd need to check the rules for it.

AFAIK the Archimandrite is to allow you to bring allied Mechanicum that don't share the same class as your main detachment, for example Reductor with Cybernetica allies.

You can't do Reductor with Cybernetica, but you can do Archimandrite (which has its own okay-ish benefit) with any of the other options.

I think Malagra and Cybernetica seem best, personally.